Gym and fitness (21 Viewers)

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
That was my point, I feel good. I happen to have fast muscle recovery and I am good at listening to my body signals. Also I do at most 4 times crossfit per week and I almost always do at least two yoga sessions per week which is in my opinion the exact opposite of Crossfit.
Thats not muscle recovery, thats muscle conditionning. Training the muscle to stay in an aerobic state for a much longer period so there is alot less production of lactic acid.
That, and the breakdown speed of the produced lactic acid by the liver. (depends mostly on the liver)

You are a runner. Runners are supposed to be pretty damn good at that. Hence, if this forum would go on a trendmill,and we get periodically tested for lactic acid production in the muscle (with le needle, hatefull really), you'd be shafting us all.


if you dont agree on the above, go to a gym and do 3 muscle based excercise, 5 sets in the 12 rep range, of wich you really need to give it your everything to get to twelve
then repeat that 3 days in a row. THAT, is muscle recovery, and you will not like the result :tongue:
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Is 5 sets better than 3?
Depends on what the excercise is for.

In a bodybuilding schedule, with alot of isolation, they include many excercise, so the "definition" excercise, such as "front raises", is done 3*12

However, in the same schedule, the big mass excercises, can be done in 4 or 5 sets.


For pure strenght training, 5 sets improving weight, or warmup and 5*5 same weight work quite well to
 

Maddy

Oracle of Copenhagen
Jul 10, 2009
16,541
Quit my "swimmers"-programme. Too many injuries in my groin and ankles. Triathlon and Ironman is an illusion.

Instead I'm going 2-split and trying out intermittent fasting and lean gain.

Monday: Chest, tri, shoulder + 5 km run

Tuesday: Back, biceps, abs + 5 km run

Wednesday: Run 5 km

Thursday: Shoulder, tri, chest + 5 km run

Friday: Back, legs, abs + 5 km run

Saturday: Hungover

Sunday: Hungover

Peace!
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
I can probably get around 4 at least. Im going to try to cut my hours at work its too much
@AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino
are you certain about this ? immediatly 4 is alot. especially since you say you got full days.

I'd suggest 2 days as a starter.

day 1

warmup : moonwalker or bike. 15mins. 80-85rpm. heartrate BELOW cardio rate (its indicated on the bike usually)

excercise 1 : squat :
6 sets 15 reps. Increase weight per rep. Since you are new to this, its your job to find out what weight is the maximum you can do for 15 reps on the first
training. from then on, take set one as 50% of the last set, and ramp the rest up from that to 100%
example : 15*100kg (thats alot, its just example) so we do 15*50,15*60,15*70, 15*80, 15*90 and 15*100.
When you manage 15 reps, with reasonable form, increase the weights by 5%
Do this for 6 weeks, then i'm gonna destroy your legs with a change, but we'll see then

excercise 2 : leg press
5 sets with following rep range : 20-15-12-10-8 reps
Once again, use first week to find our what the max 8 reps is you can do after 4 sets, then set up your weights accordingly
when you manage the 8 reps, improve weight by 5%
Do this for 6 weeks. then we'll do the same change as with squat.

excercise 3 : leg extention
5 sets 15 reps with the same weight
push out as fast as you can, decent back very slow. you should pwn this excercise as a football player.
diffrent here :you will do the same weight for all 5 reps. really going on stamina and muscle recovery allready here.
find a weight you can push 15 times. lower 5-10kg cause u'll do it 5 times ;)

excercise 4 : leg curl
them hamstrings bro !
3sets 15 reps improving weight

excecise 5 : standing calf raise
prepare to be unable to walk for a week after this.
5sets, 15 reps after 4 weeks, 20 to 25 reps
you can use the machine for this. if there isnt one, do the followign

-find a power rack.
-put the holder for the bar in the position you'd use if you would be squatting
-put the safety bars just below that hight.
-now put the barbell on those safety bars. You should be able to get under it, with a small bow.
-put a 3-5cm plate on the ground, stand on it with the part of the feet just below the toes.
-take the barbell in squat position, while standing on it
-now lift them heels of the floor, just standing with the bottom of the toes on the plate, and back down

Note : you can do significantly more weight with this then you can squat. like twice as much.

excercise 6 : seated calf raise
4sets 15 reps increasing weights. can move to 20-25 reps after a few weeks

use the machine. if there isnt, do the following

- conquer a bench
- put the plates on the floor you used previously, and put your bottom of the toes onto it
- take the barbell, put it on your lap
- roll it till its just before your knee
- now lift your heels from the ground, keeping the toes on the weight

That was a serious workout, wasent it ?

Cardio : run for 20-30 mins. @JCK any suggestions on heart rate range here ? idea is regular running at highest possible heartrate to get some resistance in the body, for lactic acid conditionning, and that he doesnt pulls a tendinitis when his football training starts. 80% bpm for his agerange ?


day 2

warmup : same : 15 mins moonwalker or bike

excercise 1 : bench press

4 sets : 12-10-8-6
find a weight you can do 4-6 times. then 12x50%, 10x65% , 8*80% , 6*100%

excercise 2 : dumbell shoulder press

4 sets : 12 reps
sit down on an L shaped bench (put it 90 degrees so you can lean against it). put your back against it, move both dumbells next to your head, then extend vertically up.
dont worry about weight, get balance in it first

excercise 3 : lateran pulldown (wide grip)

5sets 15 reps
tha machine, increasing weight on the reps.
Dont be a douchebag asshole cunt mofo that leans all the way back. those are rows, and WRONG. try to stay as vertical as possible

excercise 4 : skullcrushers (lying tricep extention)

4 sets 12 reps increasing weight.
Keep them ellbows as tight as you can, and do not move em. only the forearms should move. stop just above the forehead, and extend.

excercise 5 : standing bicep curl

4 sets 12 reps increasing weight
slow movement, dont use shoulders or traps to pull it, focus it purely on bicep
You can switch between this and the scott/preacher curl machine if you like that more

Cardio : Intervall running : 8 intervals : 15 seconds "a bloc", 45 seconds easy jogging
ask one of them gym guys to program the machine
or , like [MENTION2475]JCK[/MENTION] will say, just do em outside, cause thats far easyer

Biking interval : best on machine
running interval : best outside

(imo)

Thats it. just do this 4 weeks, then tell me if you can spare more time. If you are still alive after 6 weeks, we'll horribly murder your legs.

Dont worry about massive acidity the first 2 weeks thats to be expected, especially after day 1 :tongue:
 
Jul 20, 2012
20,044
@AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino @AlexJuventino
are you certain about this ? immediatly 4 is alot. especially since you say you got full days.

I'd suggest 2 days as a starter.

day 1

warmup : moonwalker or bike. 15mins. 80-85rpm. heartrate BELOW cardio rate (its indicated on the bike usually)

excercise 1 : squat :
6 sets 15 reps. Increase weight per rep. Since you are new to this, its your job to find out what weight is the maximum you can do for 15 reps on the first
training. from then on, take set one as 50% of the last set, and ramp the rest up from that to 100%
example : 15*100kg (thats alot, its just example) so we do 15*50,15*60,15*70, 15*80, 15*90 and 15*100.
When you manage 15 reps, with reasonable form, increase the weights by 5%
Do this for 6 weeks, then i'm gonna destroy your legs with a change, but we'll see then

excercise 2 : leg press
5 sets with following rep range : 20-15-12-10-8 reps
Once again, use first week to find our what the max 8 reps is you can do after 4 sets, then set up your weights accordingly
when you manage the 8 reps, improve weight by 5%
Do this for 6 weeks. then we'll do the same change as with squat.

excercise 3 : leg extention
5 sets 15 reps with the same weight
push out as fast as you can, decent back very slow. you should pwn this excercise as a football player.
diffrent here :you will do the same weight for all 5 reps. really going on stamina and muscle recovery allready here.
find a weight you can push 15 times. lower 5-10kg cause u'll do it 5 times ;)

excercise 4 : leg curl
them hamstrings bro !
3sets 15 reps improving weight

excecise 5 : standing calf raise
prepare to be unable to walk for a week after this.
5sets, 15 reps after 4 weeks, 20 to 25 reps
you can use the machine for this. if there isnt one, do the followign

-find a power rack.
-put the holder for the bar in the position you'd use if you would be squatting
-put the safety bars just below that hight.
-now put the barbell on those safety bars. You should be able to get under it, with a small bow.
-put a 3-5cm plate on the ground, stand on it with the part of the feet just below the toes.
-take the barbell in squat position, while standing on it
-now lift them heels of the floor, just standing with the bottom of the toes on the plate, and back down

Note : you can do significantly more weight with this then you can squat. like twice as much.

excercise 6 : seated calf raise
4sets 15 reps increasing weights. can move to 20-25 reps after a few weeks

use the machine. if there isnt, do the following

- conquer a bench
- put the plates on the floor you used previously, and put your bottom of the toes onto it
- take the barbell, put it on your lap
- roll it till its just before your knee
- now lift your heels from the ground, keeping the toes on the weight

That was a serious workout, wasent it ?

Cardio : run for 20-30 mins. @JCK any suggestions on heart rate range here ? idea is regular running at highest possible heartrate to get some resistance in the body, for lactic acid conditionning, and that he doesnt pulls a tendinitis when his football training starts. 80% bpm for his agerange ?


day 2

warmup : same : 15 mins moonwalker or bike

excercise 1 : bench press

4 sets : 12-10-8-6
find a weight you can do 4-6 times. then 12x50%, 10x65% , 8*80% , 6*100%

excercise 2 : dumbell shoulder press

4 sets : 12 reps
sit down on an L shaped bench (put it 90 degrees so you can lean against it). put your back against it, move both dumbells next to your head, then extend vertically up.
dont worry about weight, get balance in it first

excercise 3 : lateran pulldown (wide grip)

5sets 15 reps
tha machine, increasing weight on the reps.
Dont be a douchebag asshole $#@! mofo that leans all the way back. those are rows, and WRONG. try to stay as vertical as possible

excercise 4 : skullcrushers (lying tricep extention)

4 sets 12 reps increasing weight.
Keep them ellbows as tight as you can, and do not move em. only the forearms should move. stop just above the forehead, and extend.

excercise 5 : standing bicep curl

4 sets 12 reps increasing weight
slow movement, dont use shoulders or traps to pull it, focus it purely on bicep
You can switch between this and the scott/preacher curl machine if you like that more

Cardio : Intervall running : 8 intervals : 15 seconds "a bloc", 45 seconds easy jogging
ask one of them gym guys to program the machine
or , like [MENTION2475]JCK[/MENTION] will say, just do em outside, cause thats far easyer

Biking interval : best on machine
running interval : best outside

(imo)

Thats it. just do this 4 weeks, then tell me if you can spare more time. If you are still alive after 6 weeks, we'll horribly murder your legs.

Dont worry about massive acidity the first 2 weeks thats to be expected, especially after day 1 :tongue:
Lol thanks alot. I will try to start next week
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
Do share the pain here :D

- - - Updated - - -

one more thing. if you have extra time, try to add 2 days of just cardio. if you can get 4 straight weeks of 3 or 4 trainings/week, we can see to change the schedule
 

Quetzalcoatl

It ain't hard to tell
Aug 22, 2007
65,541
How many muscle groups do you guys do per day? I can't do more than 2, and on legs days, well just the legs. Should I be able to do more than that? Not sure if it's more mental or physical exhaustion.
 

ALC

Ohaulick
Oct 28, 2010
46,017
Yeah I don't feel like doing more than two. Doing more would take way too long and it would tire me out to where I'd feel like I didn't do enough.

Unless it's abs. I'll throw those in randomly if I feel like it regardless of what day it is.
 

Zacheryah

Senior Member
Aug 29, 2010
42,251
How many muscle groups do you guys do per day? I can't do more than 2, and on legs days, well just the legs. Should I be able to do more than that? Not sure if it's more mental or physical exhaustion.
Yeah I don't feel like doing more than two. Doing more would take way too long and it would tire me out to where I'd feel like I didn't do enough.
Unless it's abs. I'll throw those in randomly if I feel like it regardless of what day it is.
You can do as many as you want really, with varying efficiency. it all depends on time and goal.

Why do we work out ?
-Because we want muscular improvement, or better muscle conditionning

Muscular improvement
a) generally

You want to learn how to control breathing and "inner pressure" works diffrent for low(or 1rm) and high sets but breathing is key
You want to grow muscle or improve it.
- you want to create microtears to the muscle.
*--Microtears will trigger HGH response. The by far biggest factor. this is what kickstarts repair and synthesis
*--Every muscle that receives microtrauma will be repaired and enhanced if time and nutrients are provided

- but where do the limitations of the body lie ?
*--You have a widow of one houre to trigger HGh response. After that, you eighter wait for the next day, or sleep 2/3 houre and eat to be able to trigger another, but it wont be as much.
*--Your workout works on the glycolisys. You store a tiny amount of ATP, and a large amount of creatine. But thats nothing. thats enough for 1 set. Your body stores glucose in a polymer form (glycogene) in the muscle, specifically for muscular contraction (=muscle glycogene). You deplete this while training and it takes a meal and several houres to refill these once empty.
*-- you can cause deeper and more significalt trauma in a certain group, but it takes time. alternativelty you can spread the trauma but then its less deep.
*-- isolated muscles take 2 days for a full recovery. If you do compounds, you train 3x/week. if you train isolated, or spreading compounds, you can train 4x/week.

RESULT
1) you can only train for as long as you got muscleglycogene. FORGET about them bullshit energy drinks. you are doing it fucking wrong. energydrinks is for non explosive training : endurance training. the energy drinks allow the slowly fading glycogene to be restored. Conditionned long distance runners, cyclists etc, those benefit from that. The guy one houre in the gym that uses a sugar based energydrink is a fucking joke. If he drinks bcaa he's having to much money. drink water.
2) you are further limited by the 1 houre window of HGH response
3) You are limited by the microtrauma causes over time

b) strenght athletes (not posers)

You want thicker muscleweave and more nucleus per surface area.
*why ?
- posers want as much visual bulk and symmetry as they can get. Muscle volume, no matter what. Does this make strong connective tissue ? no.
- strenght athletes, dont care about the volume, its all about how strong your group is. What you really want, is as much mitochondria and cellnucleus per surface area.This allows for higher boost energy, and better connective tissue. you'll be less big tho.
*how ?
- training in the low rep range. doing nearly only compounds. doing the 3 big lifts. training your core

You want your muscles and nerves to be conditionned to the weight.
*why?
-cause you are trembeling like a goddamn alcoholic and your balance is off
-cause you want to move in perfect symmetry
*How ?
- many and regular trainings, on good form, with massive focus on the movement and what muscle needs to move when.
- switching between low weight explosive sets, and high weight volume sets, into explosive short rep maxweight sets

CONCLUSION

workouts can last for anywere between 0 and 1houre to be entirely efficient. with definition excercise its okay to go to like 90 minutes, but its not ideal.

But how about the number of workouts ?

That, is based on time.

powerlifters on full compound day : needs 2 days to recover it all. basically you do 3 excercise 5*5/day, and that on monday, wednesday and fryday. NEVER longer then an houre, thats fucking useless
powerlifters on spreading compound days : 4 trainings per week, but have to spread them in order to avoid overlaps. doing this and not convinced, felt that 5*5 or 3*3 was much better.
bodybuilders : isolate their stuff on 4-6 days. pro's train 6 days in a row, or twice per day with long sleep at noon. they will train for 60-70minutes MAX. they'll do 2 groups (1 major one minor) ) per trainingsession and make sure they dont overlap for 2 day period

anyone else : focus on what bodybuilders do, but take 4 day split (mon,tues - thurs,fry). 2 groups(major+minor) each day (4 exercise : major, 3minor)
example :
mon : chest4 bicep3
tues : shoulder4 trapezius 2
thurs : back5 tricep3
fry : upper leg4 lower leg2



above is the bog standard. But not everyone has that amount of time to 15'warmup, 60min weights 30min cardio, and then back home.




SO, you can do a 2x full body,wich is what i gave to alexjuventino.

Basically, you'lltrain all the groups of the upper body on one day, and all the groups of lower body on the other.
for this reason, i include mass excercises for every bodypart, no definition (aint got time for that)
secondly, on the leg day, we do regular cardio and on upper body day, we'll do interval, spreading the pain a bit.

Is this ideal ? no. Does it work ? offcourse.

Basically with the 2x full body you will have triggered full HGH response two times per week, you will have caused microtrauma to all muscle groups.
The trauma wont be as deep, and the response wont be as much(looking on a weekly base), but its definatly good enough to start on and get results on.

More importantly, this allows for plenty of recovery time, plenty of adaptation to weight training.
but really, most important is that its kinda difficult to overtrain and injure. and thats why everyone should start on this kind of schedule really. If you want more workouts from then start then just add cardio really.
Not getting injured in your first year, thats the main thing.

Muscle conditionning

This really means, making the body use muscleglycogene efficient.

Your mitochondria are burning that shit. But its an aerobic process. 6O2+C6H12O6 -> 6Co2 + 6H2O (36 atp generated after oxidative fosforylation)
If they are burning to fast, wich happens if you are going to explosive for what you can handle, two things occur

1) hemaglobine cannot deliver oxygen quickly enough into the muscle tissue, and there isnt enough oxygen. Your muscles become anaerobic. With is a factor for volume training, but bad for endurance training.
2) the demand for energy is higher then the supply. you are burning to fast for continues full oxydation, but not fast enough for the demand

result : the body will shortcut the oxydation of glucose and produce lactic acid instead : C6H12O6 → 2 CH3CHOHCOOH.

because of the acidity, the pH of the muscle drops. this is first buffered by carnosine (can be increased by supplementing beta alanine). but then drops anyway. a strenght athlete or poser knows its gonna drop, but the endurance sporter doesnt want this, he want to condition this

To stop the production of lactic acid, well that happens at muscle failure.
to remove it, this happens via the liver into the creb cycle. that however takes massive time.


Muscle conditionning is mainly, producing as low lactic acid as possible. You want to keep your muscles in an oxydative state.

How to do this ? Well, cut down the weight, and run. Ask Jack about everything else.
 

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