Federico Chiesa (106 Viewers)

[Dostoevsky]

I think Tici will do anything to get Locatelli. I feel like his signing is almost a certainty at this point.

I hope majority of people here fapping over him are right. I haven't watched much of him and I hope he's not another Berna. But I do believe you are right and I think he'll be our first signing.

 

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[Xperd]

I hope majority of people here fapping over him are right. I haven't watched much of him and I hope he's not another Berna. But I do believe you are right and I think he'll be our first signing.

Well I'm not entirely sure either whether he will totally kill it for us but going by looks of things, having watched him a bit, I think he'll be an excellent 'functional' player for us. The type who is adaptable, has good work ethic/attitude, good technique etc. A more refined Bentancur if you could say that.

We have missing these type of players for a while and focusing mostly on flashy signings.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Well I'm not entirely sure either whether he will totally kill it for us but going by looks of things, having watched him a bit, I think he'll be an excellent 'functional' player for us. The type who is adaptable, has good work ethic/attitude, good technique etc. A more refined Bentancur if you could say that.

We have missing these type of players for a while and focusing mostly on flashy signings.

I don't mind such type of a player, but I have a feeling he's vastly overrated by some because he's Italian. However, I can't say I like the idea of having Arthur and Locatelli as 2 of our 3 mid players.

 

[Salvo]

I don't mind such type of a player, but I have a feeling he's vastly overrated by some because he's Italian. However, I can't say I like the idea of having Arthur and Locatelli as 2 of our 3 mid players.

He isn't Pirlo, he isn't Pogba

He is tactically intelligent and good all round, what he will bring is more vertical passing which we desperately need. I'd take him in a heartbeat but as we all know, you can never be 100 percent sure that these players will make that step up.

 

[JCK]

Locatelli would be a very good player for us

But not Locatelli alone. We still need better midfielders

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I think Tici will do anything to get Locatelli. I feel like his signing is almost a certainty at this point.

I feel that Inter is slowly becoming a more attractive destination for these players

 

[Salvo]

But not Locatelli alone. We still need better midfielders

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I feel that Inter is slowly becoming a more attractive destination for these players

Of course

Something along the lines of Locatelli and Aouar.

 

[Elvin]

Normally I would say that nationality doesn't matter at all, but as years pass by I am starting to form an opinion that a top team needs a balance between domestic and foreign players. Perhaps I can be proven wrong, but I am under impression that all the great teams of the past decades had that balance.
On the one hand, it's almost impossible to form a great team with 8 or more of the players in the starting XI belonging to the same nation. No country nowadays, not even France, produces that much talent. On the other hand, I've learned that the domestic players are an important backbone and vital for the atmosphere in the team.

I can't make a deeper analysis, so I'll take only Juve. Once again, I say that this might be a coincidence, but long time experience tells me such balance is important.
So, Juve's starting XI (or those 11 who played most minutes) from 2005/06 (when we last won the scudetto before calciopoli), then Juve's squads from 2007/08 until 2010/11, and at the end the Juve of the last decade:

Juve 2005/06 (scudetto): 5 Italians - 6 foreigners
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Juve 2007/08 (3rd place): 8 Italians - 3 foreigners
Juve 2008/09 (2nd place): 7 Italians - 4 foreigners
Juve 2009/10 (7th place): 8 Italians - 3 foreigners
Juve 2010/11 (7th place): 9 Italians - 2 foreigners
-----
Juve 2011/12 (scudetto): 7 Italians - 4 foreigners
Juve 2012/13 (scudetto): 7 Italians - 4 foreigners
Juve 2013/14 (scudetto): 6 Italians - 5 foreigners
Juve 2014/15 (scudetto and CL final): 4 Italians - 7 foreigners
Juve 2015/16 (scudetto): 5 Italians - 6 foreigners
Juve 2016/17 (scudetto and CL final): 4 Italians - 7 foreigners
Juve 2017/18 (scudetto): 3 Italians - 8 foreigners
Juve 2018/19 (scudetto): 2 Italians - 9 foreigners
Juve 2019/20 (scudetto): 1 Italian - 10 foreigners
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Juve 2020/21 (3rd place): 2 Italians - 9 foreigners

Of course, we were winning the scudetto even with 1 or 2 Italians in the starting line-up. But the best Juve (05/06; 13/14 when we won 102 points and 14/15 and 16/17) were well-balanced teams with 4, 5 or at most 6 Italians, and 5, 6 or 7 foreigners in the starting line-up. Also, the worst Juves of the last 15 years (when we were ending up 7th) were dominantly Italian. Our decline in the last 3 or 4 years is obvious, but it's also obvious that exactly in those years we broke the balance and we have started creating a foreign Juve.
In the end, it's still about quality. You can have 5 Italians+6 foreigners and be worse than a squad of 11 Italians or 11 foreigners. But quality+"nationality" balance seems to be the way to go for Juventus in the last decade and a half.

Again, Italians are not the problem. Italian mentality is. They will always think minimal advantage is enough, or only needing to win 1-0 will be enough, just holding on to what they already have will be enough. They start off with this bullshit and end up chasing the result the whole game.

 

[Salvo]

Normally I would say that nationality doesn't matter at all, but as years pass by I am starting to form an opinion that a top team needs a balance between domestic and foreign players. Perhaps I can be proven wrong, but I am under impression that all the great teams of the past decades had that balance.
On the one hand, it's almost impossible to form a great team with 8 or more of the players in the starting XI belonging to the same nation. No country nowadays, not even France, produces that much talent. On the other hand, I've learned that the domestic players are an important backbone and vital for the atmosphere in the team.

I can't make a deeper analysis, so I'll take only Juve. Once again, I say that this might be a coincidence, but long time experience tells me such balance is important.
So, Juve's starting XI (or those 11 who played most minutes) from 2005/06 (when we last won the scudetto before calciopoli), then Juve's squads from 2007/08 until 2010/11, and at the end the Juve of the last decade:

Juve 2005/06 (scudetto): 5 Italians - 6 foreigners
-----
Juve 2007/08 (3rd place): 8 Italians - 3 foreigners
Juve 2008/09 (2nd place): 7 Italians - 4 foreigners
Juve 2009/10 (7th place): 8 Italians - 3 foreigners
Juve 2010/11 (7th place): 9 Italians - 2 foreigners
-----
Juve 2011/12 (scudetto): 7 Italians - 4 foreigners
Juve 2012/13 (scudetto): 7 Italians - 4 foreigners
Juve 2013/14 (scudetto): 6 Italians - 5 foreigners
Juve 2014/15 (scudetto and CL final): 4 Italians - 7 foreigners
Juve 2015/16 (scudetto): 5 Italians - 6 foreigners
Juve 2016/17 (scudetto and CL final): 4 Italians - 7 foreigners
Juve 2017/18 (scudetto): 3 Italians - 8 foreigners
Juve 2018/19 (scudetto): 2 Italians - 9 foreigners
Juve 2019/20 (scudetto): 1 Italian - 10 foreigners
-----
Juve 2020/21 (3rd place): 2 Italians - 9 foreigners

Of course, we were winning the scudetto even with 1 or 2 Italians in the starting line-up. But the best Juve (05/06; 13/14 when we won 102 points and 14/15 and 16/17) were well-balanced teams with 4, 5 or at most 6 Italians, and 5, 6 or 7 foreigners in the starting line-up. Also, the worst Juves of the last 15 years (when we were ending up 7th) were dominantly Italian. Our decline in the last 3 or 4 years is obvious, but it's also obvious that exactly in those years we broke the balance and we have started creating a foreign Juve.
In the end, it's still about quality. You can have 5 Italians+6 foreigners and be worse than a squad of 11 Italians or 11 foreigners. But quality+"nationality" balance seems to be the way to go for Juventus in the last decade and a half.

This

Juve is also intrinsically Italian and has always been, every winning team has had that Italian stamp mixed with a few very talented foreigners.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Again, Italians are not the problem. Italian mentality is. They will always think minimal advantage is enough, or only needing to win 1-0 will be enough, just holding on to what they already have will be enough. They start off with this bullshit and end up chasing the result the whole game.

Have you actually watched games in the last decade or so?

 

[Dostoevsky]

Have you actually watched games in the last decade or so?

He has a point, though.

Way too often Italians sit back and protect the result. Sometimes it pays off sometimes it doesn't. But that style of play is out-dated in Europe and, even from our experience, it doesn't pay off. Yes, we did reach the finals not so long ago, but I can't say we always had pussy defending mentality.

So many times we started off aggressive and destroyed the opponent which is stronger than us. But so many times we sat back, gave them space to attack and we got fucked in the ass.

You won't see English and Spanish clubs do that and it's them who usually win trophies.

 

[Elvin]

Have you actually watched games in the last decade or so?

Yeah every single Juve game. And every game in CL with starting by chilling thinking "it's ok, we'll score one and win", end up conceding first then a second one from a counter or some shit.

The only time i remember us starting strong in CL was vs Tottenham.

 

[Salvo]

Yeah every single Juve game. And every game in CL with starting by chilling thinking "it's ok, we'll score one and win", end up conceding first then a second one from a counter or some shit.

The only time i remember us starting strong in CL was vs Tottenham.

I think more than an Italian thing it's just a massive mental block we have. It's no coincidence someone like Chiesa comes in and attacks like he would against udinese or Genoa, he just sees players in front of him. A lot of our players put teams on a pedastool.

There is also this myth of catenaccio, Lippi played attacking teams, trapattoni as well (with juve).

 

[Elvin]

I think more than an Italian thing it's just a massive mental block we have. It's no coincidence someone like Chiesa comes in and attacks like he would against udinese or Genoa, he just sees players in front of him. A lot of our players put teams on a pedastool.

There is also this myth of catenaccio, Lippi played attacking teams, trapattoni as well (with juve).

It definitely is a mental block too. Its matter if time before Chiesa gets Juvefied too.

Wtf do you expect when our captain comes out and says something idiotic like "Juve will always be defensive".

Chiellini was finished for me that very second.

Listen guys, I love defending, Italy vs Netherlands is one of my favorite games ever, but this shit doesnt work anymore, and even when it did it required a shit tonn of luck too.

 

[Salvo]

It definitely is a mental block too. Wtf do you expect when our captain comes out and says something idiotic like "Juve will always be defensive".

Chiellini was finished for me that very second.

You cannot play with fear. I love Buffon, Chiello etc but the fear of not winning it has spread, we need to overhaul that.

 

[Xperd]

That example of dominating and sitting back which I hated the most vs against Pep's Bayern. They were there for the taking and we should've scored more. But we sat back in the 2nd half and made poor sub choices.
Compare that to Real against the same Pep's Bayern. They were relentless and eventually ended up winning that game 4-0.

Game has changed a bit and comebacks are becoming way too common. It's not easy to protect the lead nowadays just by virtue of how the game is evolving. Attackers are having way too much leeway these days. Soft fouls and penalties have become a norm and the idea is to make the game more 'entertaining' by scoring more goals. It is a systemic change which is being aggressively pushed by the football governing bodies. Let's not deny this.

 

[Dostoevsky]

It definitely is a mental block too. Its matter if time before Chiesa fets Juvefied too.

Wtf do you expect when our captain comes out and says something idiotic like "Juve will always be defensive".

Chiellini was finished for me that very second.

Listen guys, I love defending, Italy vs Netherlands is one of my favorite games ever, but this shit doesnt work anymore, and even when it did it required a shit tonn of luck too.

That is why I wanted us to get a foreign coach here. Every old school Italian coach is the same. At least I'd like somebody aggressive who'd wake the fuck out this team just like Conte did it when he first arrived here. Just look at our starting matches when he arrived, we looked beast and like a different team. I have a feeling our team would shine with Diego Simeone, though.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

He has a point, though.

No he doesn't. I thougt that the myth of Italians only defending or just going for the 1-0 result or whatever nonsense had been long dispelled by now. Apparently not.


On an unrelated note: a good old "typicial Italian" 1-0 would have been nice a few days ago.
Wait, I should elaborate. It would have been a result that I would have liked. Obviously not a result that would have satisfied everyone. That much is obvious.

 

[Elvin]

You cannot play with fear. I love Buffon, Chiello etc but the fear of not winning it has spread, we need to overhaul that.

This! Fear is the word. Exactly.

 

[Dostoevsky]

No he doesn't. I thougt that the myth of Italians only defending or just going for the 1-0 result or whatever nonsense had been long dispelled by now. Apparently not.


On an unrelated note: a good old "typicial Italian" 1-0 would have been nice a few days ago.
Wait, I should elaborate. It would have been a result that I would have liked. Obviously not a result that would have satisfied everyone. That much is obvious.

It's not a myth.

Look at Spanish teams in Europe. Then look at English clubs in Europe. And then look at Italians.

It's not just about the money. It's style of football and how they play compared to Italians. Italians, with how they play, managed to win shit. Outside of those, again, it's Bayern who also doesn't play like a typical Italian club.

 

[Hust]

If we are keeping Buffon & Chiellini around with the sole purpose of winning them the CL before they retire then we will never win the CL as long as we have that philosophy. They had their chances and if it means improving the squad or making sacrifices to keep them on it I hope the club opts to improve the squad.

Chiellini needs to go. Buffon is fine as a GK, he is never injured and still does well. Sorry to Giorgio, he was in two finals and had his chance. The club needs to move on.