Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
What is Catherine Ashton for? She couldn’t even tell us what Mohamed Morsi said to her. Or even if she called him “President Morsi” or “Mr Morsi”. Or maybe just “Sir”.
And why, by the way, is she called a “High” Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy of the EU? I seem to recall that the EU chaps in Bosnia were always “High Representatives”. At least Baroness Ashton saw General Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi and Vice-President ElBaradei. And Morsi, of course.
Yet given the number of power-folk who jet into the Middle East from America – Hillary Clinton comes to mind – maybe Lady Ashton’s mumsy approach and non-powerful appearance will have endeared her to Egypt’s leaders. And to be fair, she was a lot less pompous than Mohamed Morsi in his pre-coup speech when he talked about his legitimacy 15 times. General Sisi seemed to like Lady Ashton and – Egyptians being very intelligent people who don’t like being lectured by Americans – our “High” Representative might have gone down rather well in Cairo.
Obviously Morsi – or “President Morsi” or “(President) Morsi” – has not withdrawn his claim to the presidency, but as the days pass, a question has to be asked. The Muslim Brotherhood is not going to get back into power. Not unless it is voted-in in new elections. Is that what Lady Ashton told Mr/President Morsi? That it’s all up for the lads in Nasr City and Giza? That the army is still popular and that most Egyptians probably don’t want a return to the chaos and killings and economic collapse which – let us face it – symbolised Morsi’s rule? Somebody I trust very much watched Morsi’s speech that night and said that he sounded like Mubarak.
Which was true. But then General Sisi sounded a bit like Nasser the other day and Lady Ashton sounds a bit like my late Mum, down-to-earth, home-grown, not-there-to-preach; and she did – unlike anyone else – get to Morsi. She certainly presented a more active person than any of the Americans, though that is no great shakes. Obama has more or less packed up on Morsi, though this has less to do with any political wisdom than the fact that the US really has no foreign policy left in the region. And we shall soon see how Mr Kerry’s latest “peace process” forges ahead with the Israelis and the Palestinians, along with Martin Indyk who has never failed to fail in the region.
But back to Egypt. The 2011 Revolution – and its comparatively peaceful outcome (compared, for example, with Syria) – showed how mature the Egyptians were, even after decades of dictatorship. But the Muslim Brotherhood did not show the same maturity, which is why – let us remember – it was chatting to Mubarak rather than standing in Tahrir Square. But it did seize on that word legitimacy. So did the Egyptian army. Was that a word that Lady Ashton mentioned? I bet Morsi did.
by robert fisk
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...t-location-8738626.html?origin=internalSearch
And why, by the way, is she called a “High” Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy of the EU? I seem to recall that the EU chaps in Bosnia were always “High Representatives”. At least Baroness Ashton saw General Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi and Vice-President ElBaradei. And Morsi, of course.
Yet given the number of power-folk who jet into the Middle East from America – Hillary Clinton comes to mind – maybe Lady Ashton’s mumsy approach and non-powerful appearance will have endeared her to Egypt’s leaders. And to be fair, she was a lot less pompous than Mohamed Morsi in his pre-coup speech when he talked about his legitimacy 15 times. General Sisi seemed to like Lady Ashton and – Egyptians being very intelligent people who don’t like being lectured by Americans – our “High” Representative might have gone down rather well in Cairo.
Obviously Morsi – or “President Morsi” or “(President) Morsi” – has not withdrawn his claim to the presidency, but as the days pass, a question has to be asked. The Muslim Brotherhood is not going to get back into power. Not unless it is voted-in in new elections. Is that what Lady Ashton told Mr/President Morsi? That it’s all up for the lads in Nasr City and Giza? That the army is still popular and that most Egyptians probably don’t want a return to the chaos and killings and economic collapse which – let us face it – symbolised Morsi’s rule? Somebody I trust very much watched Morsi’s speech that night and said that he sounded like Mubarak.
Which was true. But then General Sisi sounded a bit like Nasser the other day and Lady Ashton sounds a bit like my late Mum, down-to-earth, home-grown, not-there-to-preach; and she did – unlike anyone else – get to Morsi. She certainly presented a more active person than any of the Americans, though that is no great shakes. Obama has more or less packed up on Morsi, though this has less to do with any political wisdom than the fact that the US really has no foreign policy left in the region. And we shall soon see how Mr Kerry’s latest “peace process” forges ahead with the Israelis and the Palestinians, along with Martin Indyk who has never failed to fail in the region.
But back to Egypt. The 2011 Revolution – and its comparatively peaceful outcome (compared, for example, with Syria) – showed how mature the Egyptians were, even after decades of dictatorship. But the Muslim Brotherhood did not show the same maturity, which is why – let us remember – it was chatting to Mubarak rather than standing in Tahrir Square. But it did seize on that word legitimacy. So did the Egyptian army. Was that a word that Lady Ashton mentioned? I bet Morsi did.
by robert fisk
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...t-location-8738626.html?origin=internalSearch
thanks
Egypt army 'restoring democracy', says John Kerry
US Secretary of State John Kerry has said Egypt's military was "restoring democracy" when it ousted elected President Mohammed Morsi last month.
Mr Kerry said the removal was at the request of "millions and millions of people".
His remarks came as police prepare to disperse two pro-Morsi sit-ins in the capital, Cairo.
Egypt's interior ministry has promised Mr Morsi's supporters "safe exit" if they quickly leave the camps.
The country's cabinet on Wednesday ordered police to end the protests, calling them a "national security threat".
'Asked to intervene'
Washington has refused to describe Mr Morsi's removal as a "coup". Doing so would require the US government to cut off its estimated $1.5bn (£1bn) in annual aid to Egypt.
Correspondents say Mr Kerry's latest comments will be seen in Egypt as supportive of the interim government.
In an television interview in Pakistan, Mr Kerry said: "The military was asked to intervene by millions and millions of people, all of whom were afraid of a descendance into chaos, into violence.
"And the military did not take over, to the best of our judgement - so far. To run the country, there's a civilian government. In effect, they were restoring democracy."
Mr Kerry also warned against further bloodshed, according to AFP news agency.
He said Washington was "very, very concerned" about the killing of dozens of pro-Morsi protesters in clashes with security forces, calling it "absolutely unacceptable".
Thousands of supporters of Mr Morsi have defied new warnings from the military-backed cabinet by continuing their sit-ins.
The main protest camp is at a square near the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque in the capital's north-east, where clashes left some 70 people dead last Saturday, and in Nahda Square near the main campus of Cairo University.
Demonstrators there have already ignored previous threats of dispersal.
They want to see Mr Morsi - Egypt's first democratically elected president - reinstated. The Islamist leader was removed by the army on 3 July, after just one year in office.
It came after mass rallies in which millions of Egyptians calling for his removal took to the streets.
Egypt's interior ministry released a statement on Thursday saying it called "on those in Rabaa al-Adawiya and Nahda squares to let reason and the national interest prevail, and to quickly leave".
The ministry "pledges a safe exit and full protection to whoever responds to this appeal", it added.
Ministry spokesman Hany Abdel Latif told Reuters there was "no specified date" for the removal.
Protesters 'determined'
Supporters of Mr Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood movement have remained defiant.
Essam el-Erian, vice-president of the Freedom and Justice Party, the Brotherhood's political wing, said the protesters would not be deterred.
"There are expectations of a massacre taking place in front of the eyes of the whole world," he said.
"The free people in Egypt and the world must stand against this stupid cabinet mandate for the police to end the sit-in protests."
An African Union delegation confirmed on Wednesday that it had met Mr Morsi, who has not been seen in public since being ousted.
He had received no official visitors until Tuesday, when he met EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton who said he was "well".
The ousted leader has been formally remanded in custody at an undisclosed location, according to a judicial order.
He has been accused of the "premeditated murder of some prisoners, officers and soldiers" when he and several Muslim Brotherhood leaders were freed during a breakout at a Cairo prison in January 2011.
He is alleged to have plotted attacks on jails in the uprising that overthrew President Hosni Mubarak.
Mr Morsi is also accused of conspiring with the Palestinian militant group Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip and has strong links with the Muslim Brotherhood.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23543744
Turkey denounces Kerry remarks praising army for 'restoring democracy'
2 August 2013 /TODAYSZAMAN.COM WITH WIRES, İSTANBUL
Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bekir Bozdağ has denounced US Secretary of State John Kerry's remarks saying that Egypt's military was "restoring democracy" when it ousted elected President Mohammed Morsi last month.
Commenting on Kerry's words on Egypt, Bozdağ asked on Twitter: “Has the military built democracy in the US or European countries? Coups won't bring democracy; in fact they will kill and destroy the democratic paths. Just like it did in Egypt.”
Twitter.
There is no freedom until all are equal :~)
true. just want to add, and when violence is not part of making a statement. see the most common mistake people in this part of the world tend to forget is that radical groups like the ones we had have a history of taking up arms to make there statements or in cases make a push for how they want things to be. obviously there terror antics in several countries like algeria, and egypt has reaped fruitless in fact it proved how miserable this move was. unless we as a nation agreeo n respecting one another's freedoms we wont go far. as long as a group think islam has been sent to them only and play GOD we wont go far, in the same sense other should respect the freedom of others to be overly religious meaning i'm against packing jails with any one with a beard like when mubarak was in power ( true a lot where planning or calling for terrorist attacks) and finally there r two main main things that need to be set from the start.
1- proper education!! i cant stress on this enough! egyptain school systems are not old, they r from the stone age and remain unchanged, and instead of allowing for freedom of thinking are based on memorizing with no attention to understanding the concept of sciences. also a lot of emphasis needs to be put on ethics and manners!! until then we can be the richest countires by aid but cant advance into the future.
2- the rule of law!!! that is applied on every citizen, sadly in egypt you r guilty until proven otherwise, as opposed to innocent until proven guilty. we need to be all equal in front of courts with no one by passing the rule of law regardless of his social status, or economical position.
one last thing, i thing the youth of this country deserves the trust of people running the show, if anything the youth has proven over and over again how mature they are in all aspects of life! from sciences, music, religion, and politics. its time the youth take up there responsibilities in this ling aging nation of egypt. they r the future and i have no doubts in my heart that this country will live up to its fullest potential if the above is handled properly. make no mistake yes there r factors like geo-political powers around us that might be an issue, but they can be tackled via political moves, if there is a will (this will is present) there is a way. egypt is not a poor country with no resources as it was portrayed by mubarak or the muslim brotherhood, i think god has bless this country with tonnes of things from brains to the very fact where we lay on the map. its our piss poor management that has been the cause of our demise.
paying off your debts? masters should be pleased.
Gaza hospitals face fuel shortage
The Health Ministry of the Gaza Strip has warned against fuel shortage in the besieged Palestinian territory, which has affected the work of hospitals. According to Press TV, the health ministry said many hospitals in Gaza are in dire need of fuel necessary for their power generators to function.
Nearly 500 Palestinian patients have died and hundreds more are at risk of death due to the Zionist regime’s blockade of the Gaza Strip.
In addition, the closure of the Rafah crossing - Gaza’s only gateway to the outside world - by the Egyptian army since July 3 has prevented thousands of people from crossing in and out, leaving many stranded, including patients, students, and people who hold visas and citizenships to other countries.
Egypt opens the crossing on specified days following the ouster of President Mohamed Morsi by the army.
Over the past months, Egypt has also blocked supply tunnels leading into Gaza, which are used to bring basic necessities. In February, the Egyptian army flooded several of the tunnels.
http://english.irib.ir/news/middle-east/item/115053-gaza-hospitals-face-fuel-shortage
Egyptian army destroys more two tunnels at Gaza
World Bulletin / News Desk
Egyptian army has destroyed two tunnels in the Gaza border on Thursday.
Armored vehicles and infantries deployed at the border destroyed two tunnels and seized about 100 tons of fuel oil which wanted to be taken to Gaza, according to witnesses.
Egyptian authorities have not released any statements in regards to the issue.
Underground tunnels are a lifeline for the Palestinians living in Gaza. Palestinians cover their needs of food, fuel and construction products via tunnels at the border between Egypt and Gaza.
Gaza hospitals face fuel shortage
The Health Ministry of the Gaza Strip has warned against fuel shortage in the besieged Palestinian territory, which has affected the work of hospitals. According to Press TV, the health ministry said many hospitals in Gaza are in dire need of fuel necessary for their power generators to function.
Nearly 500 Palestinian patients have died and hundreds more are at risk of death due to the Zionist regime’s blockade of the Gaza Strip.
In addition, the closure of the Rafah crossing - Gaza’s only gateway to the outside world - by the Egyptian army since July 3 has prevented thousands of people from crossing in and out, leaving many stranded, including patients, students, and people who hold visas and citizenships to other countries.
Egypt opens the crossing on specified days following the ouster of President Mohamed Morsi by the army.
Over the past months, Egypt has also blocked supply tunnels leading into Gaza, which are used to bring basic necessities. In February, the Egyptian army flooded several of the tunnels.
http://english.irib.ir/news/middle-east/item/115053-gaza-hospitals-face-fuel-shortage
Egyptian army destroys more two tunnels at Gaza
World Bulletin / News Desk
Egyptian army has destroyed two tunnels in the Gaza border on Thursday.
Armored vehicles and infantries deployed at the border destroyed two tunnels and seized about 100 tons of fuel oil which wanted to be taken to Gaza, according to witnesses.
Egyptian authorities have not released any statements in regards to the issue.
Underground tunnels are a lifeline for the Palestinians living in Gaza. Palestinians cover their needs of food, fuel and construction products via tunnels at the border between Egypt and Gaza.
Rare interview with Egyptian Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi
CAIRO — In his first interview since the overthrow of President Mohamed Morsi last month, Egypt’s commanding general sharply criticized the U.S. response, accusing the Obama administration of disregarding the Egyptian popular will and of providing insufficient support amid threats of a civil war.
“You left the Egyptians. You turned your back on the Egyptians, and they won’t forget that,” said an indignant Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, speaking of the U.S. government. “Now you want to continue turning your backs on Egyptians?”
Sissi is widely considered the most powerful man in Egypt, wielding more control than anyone over the country’s direction after a tumultuous 21 / 2 years in which the military has shoved aside two presidents following popular uprisings. He denied interest in running for president but did not rule it out.
Although Sissi gives occasional speeches, he rarely sits down for interviews. But over the course of two hours in an ornate reception room in Cairo’s Defense Ministry on Thursday, he provided his most detailed explanation yet of why he decided to oust Morsi, the nation’s first democratically elected president. Sissi also expressed deep disappointment that the United States has not been more eager to embrace his rationale.
Sissi’s comments are a measure of just how thoroughly the Obama administration has alienated both sides in a profoundly polarized and unsettled Egypt, all while trying to remain neutral. Morsi’s supporters in the Muslim Brotherhood regularly accuse the United States of acquiescing to a military coup.
Sissi spoke on the same day that Secretary of State John F. Kerry made the administration’s most supportive comments to date, saying that Egypt’s army was “restoring democracy.”
“The military was asked to intervene by millions and millions of people,” Kerry said during a visit to Pakistan. “The military did not take over, to the best of our judgment — so far.”
The U.S. government is required by law to halt non-humanitarian assistance when a democratically elected government is forced from office in a military coup. But the Obama administration appears determined to avoid using that term and to prevent a cutoff of the $1.3 billion that the U.S. government sends to Egypt annually. Much of that aid goes to the military.
Since Morsi’s July 3 ouster, U.S. officials have cautioned Sissi and other generals to show restraint in their dealings with protesters, at least 140 of whom have been killed in clashes with security forces. The Obama administration has also encouraged the military to reconcile with the Muslim Brotherhood.
That prospect appears distant, with authorities promising a fresh crackdown on Islamist protests and Morsi continuing to be detained in an undisclosed location, unable to communicate with even his family.
Still, the furthest Washington has been willing to go in penalizing the military is to postpone the sale of four F-16 fighters. Most analysts say the delay is purely symbolic.
Sissi bristled at the move. “This is not the way to deal with a patriotic military,” he said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...7eb37c-fbc4-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html
CAIRO — In his first interview since the overthrow of President Mohamed Morsi last month, Egypt’s commanding general sharply criticized the U.S. response, accusing the Obama administration of disregarding the Egyptian popular will and of providing insufficient support amid threats of a civil war.
“You left the Egyptians. You turned your back on the Egyptians, and they won’t forget that,” said an indignant Gen. Abdel Fatah al-Sissi, speaking of the U.S. government. “Now you want to continue turning your backs on Egyptians?”
Sissi is widely considered the most powerful man in Egypt, wielding more control than anyone over the country’s direction after a tumultuous 21 / 2 years in which the military has shoved aside two presidents following popular uprisings. He denied interest in running for president but did not rule it out.
Although Sissi gives occasional speeches, he rarely sits down for interviews. But over the course of two hours in an ornate reception room in Cairo’s Defense Ministry on Thursday, he provided his most detailed explanation yet of why he decided to oust Morsi, the nation’s first democratically elected president. Sissi also expressed deep disappointment that the United States has not been more eager to embrace his rationale.
Sissi’s comments are a measure of just how thoroughly the Obama administration has alienated both sides in a profoundly polarized and unsettled Egypt, all while trying to remain neutral. Morsi’s supporters in the Muslim Brotherhood regularly accuse the United States of acquiescing to a military coup.
Sissi spoke on the same day that Secretary of State John F. Kerry made the administration’s most supportive comments to date, saying that Egypt’s army was “restoring democracy.”
“The military was asked to intervene by millions and millions of people,” Kerry said during a visit to Pakistan. “The military did not take over, to the best of our judgment — so far.”
The U.S. government is required by law to halt non-humanitarian assistance when a democratically elected government is forced from office in a military coup. But the Obama administration appears determined to avoid using that term and to prevent a cutoff of the $1.3 billion that the U.S. government sends to Egypt annually. Much of that aid goes to the military.
Since Morsi’s July 3 ouster, U.S. officials have cautioned Sissi and other generals to show restraint in their dealings with protesters, at least 140 of whom have been killed in clashes with security forces. The Obama administration has also encouraged the military to reconcile with the Muslim Brotherhood.
That prospect appears distant, with authorities promising a fresh crackdown on Islamist protests and Morsi continuing to be detained in an undisclosed location, unable to communicate with even his family.
Still, the furthest Washington has been willing to go in penalizing the military is to postpone the sale of four F-16 fighters. Most analysts say the delay is purely symbolic.
Sissi bristled at the move. “This is not the way to deal with a patriotic military,” he said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...7eb37c-fbc4-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html
