I wouldn't call it a counter-revolution. Revolution born dead more likely. Status quo is too strong, Mubarak was sacrificed to please crowds but they have no interntion to share the power they hold.
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Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
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the same way hamas had elections after they came to power right?
ok i will go with you it becomes a global islamic issue even though i strongly have reservations about the islamic part but just for the sake of argument i will go with u, going by your logic egyptains, the interim government should go ape shit the way erdogan is going when we see images of muslims from turkey getting injured and the shit getting kicked out of them in the latest protests right?
turk morsy was removed for who he was, and the flop he turned out to be, the hypocrite he was/is, and more importantly the undemocratic ways he was was taking the day he toke office and not bec HE IS FROM THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD who mind you dont approve democracy but merely find it a way to get to power, and sure as hell not bec HE IS MUSLIM. egypt for the hundredth time is 90% muslim!!! if you throw at me the weal and over used minority card i dont know what to tell you execpt if the minority where this strong they would've ruled us ages ago
you say sisi is mossad guy ok, i will not argue this bec i find it a sorry reason, border line retarded but if he is mossad guy care to explain to me how did iraq get bombed in 2003? i mean did planes bomb iraq from cairo? or was it the base in doha, i'm trying to find facts about turkey before i write anything bec i like my posts to have accuracey but until i do do answer me.
you keep saying mossad mossad etc, last time i checked and this hurts me to just type but last time i checked the terrorist groups attacking the Egyptian armed forces in sinai where "muslims" and arab's not isreali. yes there were UN-resonable exchange of fire between isreali patrols and egyptain patrols but not the same way check points and police stations are being attacked ever since morsy left.
look i urge you to read the holy quran and in the holy quran like i told tomice in a private message i sent him due to the fact i cant rep that in islam in general and in quran in particular every defeat the muslim army had or the muslim empire received the blame was not once put on the shoulders of others but on the shoulders of muslims them selves.
we r the conspiracy against out own religion, the day we supported and let extremism crawl into our lives and reveal there ugly face, we r the ones who conspire on our selves when we allowed people to get killed simply bec they have another point of view, we r the ones to blame when we sing and dance in street's when a bunch of deluded, traitors, and brainwashed youth thought they were serving a holy purpose bombing civilians who might actually sympathize with your case. we r to blame bec if we were good people we would've had better rulers, rulers who would've cared for the well being of every single citizen instead of hearing his praise from people who are near him and benefit from him being in rule. hate the isreali's all you want, the biggest difference between us and isreal is the simple fact isreali's care about them selves even if its the dead corpse of a solider killed whilst being at war with us. the day we become like them and care for our citizens we would be on the right track. in no way am i saying isreal is a role model, they have alot of things i have a lot of reservations on however its a character i think would be a great start. if morsy or who ever was in rule cared about every single drop of blood we wouldn't be this miserable.
the simple fact of the matter is, by blaming others for our short comings we will never move forward and join the rest of the world who unlike us toke our sciences and utilized them instead of sitting back and living on past glories and dying to bring them back the same way the extremist are fantasying about bringing sth that is dead with a certificate not to mention will not work in our current circumstances. just my two cents on all of this.
one last point, no one in the recent history of the middle east will be like nasser like him or hate him, but if you read about him from the perspective of the west and isreal you continuously attack you will realize despite being an enemy he was respected bec he was a respectable opponent. if you hate nasser forget him take salah el din as an example!! in islam you know there are rules to even war, do we practice them nowadays?? think about it.... you will realize the problem is us, and yet we cry why does the west dislike you, the simple truth is we put aside all our principles and when we get fucked we show up as the victims and we love being the victims instead of practicing our principles as islam commands us, a religion the west it self respects a long with the holy prophet but when they compare whats written with the reality of muslims they find its not true and hence the feelings you seem to believe in.
ok i will go with you it becomes a global islamic issue even though i strongly have reservations about the islamic part but just for the sake of argument i will go with u, going by your logic egyptains, the interim government should go ape shit the way erdogan is going when we see images of muslims from turkey getting injured and the shit getting kicked out of them in the latest protests right?
turk morsy was removed for who he was, and the flop he turned out to be, the hypocrite he was/is, and more importantly the undemocratic ways he was was taking the day he toke office and not bec HE IS FROM THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD who mind you dont approve democracy but merely find it a way to get to power, and sure as hell not bec HE IS MUSLIM. egypt for the hundredth time is 90% muslim!!! if you throw at me the weal and over used minority card i dont know what to tell you execpt if the minority where this strong they would've ruled us ages ago
you say sisi is mossad guy ok, i will not argue this bec i find it a sorry reason, border line retarded but if he is mossad guy care to explain to me how did iraq get bombed in 2003? i mean did planes bomb iraq from cairo? or was it the base in doha, i'm trying to find facts about turkey before i write anything bec i like my posts to have accuracey but until i do do answer me.
you keep saying mossad mossad etc, last time i checked and this hurts me to just type but last time i checked the terrorist groups attacking the Egyptian armed forces in sinai where "muslims" and arab's not isreali. yes there were UN-resonable exchange of fire between isreali patrols and egyptain patrols but not the same way check points and police stations are being attacked ever since morsy left.
look i urge you to read the holy quran and in the holy quran like i told tomice in a private message i sent him due to the fact i cant rep that in islam in general and in quran in particular every defeat the muslim army had or the muslim empire received the blame was not once put on the shoulders of others but on the shoulders of muslims them selves.
we r the conspiracy against out own religion, the day we supported and let extremism crawl into our lives and reveal there ugly face, we r the ones who conspire on our selves when we allowed people to get killed simply bec they have another point of view, we r the ones to blame when we sing and dance in street's when a bunch of deluded, traitors, and brainwashed youth thought they were serving a holy purpose bombing civilians who might actually sympathize with your case. we r to blame bec if we were good people we would've had better rulers, rulers who would've cared for the well being of every single citizen instead of hearing his praise from people who are near him and benefit from him being in rule. hate the isreali's all you want, the biggest difference between us and isreal is the simple fact isreali's care about them selves even if its the dead corpse of a solider killed whilst being at war with us. the day we become like them and care for our citizens we would be on the right track. in no way am i saying isreal is a role model, they have alot of things i have a lot of reservations on however its a character i think would be a great start. if morsy or who ever was in rule cared about every single drop of blood we wouldn't be this miserable.
the simple fact of the matter is, by blaming others for our short comings we will never move forward and join the rest of the world who unlike us toke our sciences and utilized them instead of sitting back and living on past glories and dying to bring them back the same way the extremist are fantasying about bringing sth that is dead with a certificate not to mention will not work in our current circumstances. just my two cents on all of this.
one last point, no one in the recent history of the middle east will be like nasser like him or hate him, but if you read about him from the perspective of the west and isreal you continuously attack you will realize despite being an enemy he was respected bec he was a respectable opponent. if you hate nasser forget him take salah el din as an example!! in islam you know there are rules to even war, do we practice them nowadays?? think about it.... you will realize the problem is us, and yet we cry why does the west dislike you, the simple truth is we put aside all our principles and when we get fucked we show up as the victims and we love being the victims instead of practicing our principles as islam commands us, a religion the west it self respects a long with the holy prophet but when they compare whats written with the reality of muslims they find its not true and hence the feelings you seem to believe in.
There should be an award named after Bisco only for the way he manages to tolerate Turk. Sometimes I can't even figure if Turk is joking or is simply plain stupid. You can argue that it was a coup or that MB and their fans must have been given their chance but to call everyone on the other side a Zionist, leftist or anti Islam just shows how clouded his judgment is.
thank you heaps both of you its much appreciated 
You can't compare these two. You simply can't. In Egypt, people are standing to protect their elected government. Here, noisy minority trying to overthrow the elected government. Your guys killed more than 200, here 5 died, none of them were executed like your guys did.
turk morsy was removed for who he was, and the flop he turned out to be, the hypocrite he was/is, and more importantly the undemocratic ways he was was taking the day he toke office and not bec HE IS FROM THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD who mind you dont approve democracy but merely find it a way to get to power, and sure as hell not bec HE IS MUSLIM. egypt for the hundredth time is 90% muslim!!! if you throw at me the weal and over used minority card i dont know what to tell you execpt if the minority where this strong they would've ruled us ages ago
For the millionth time, if he was flopped he would be gone in next election. You can't call your so called army whenever the president do something you don't like. You can't call the police to arrest mayor if you don't like the color of newly painted paving stones in your street.
Every single faction use the democracy to get to power. If they say they don't, they lie. Is it ok for some and forbidden for some? It's been discussed, if you guys were patient enough, Muslim Brotherhood might lose the power in next election. But no, you couldn't take it more than one year under Morsi after living 30 years under Mubarak rule. It will back fire. You got rid of most moderate version of Muslims, there were a lot of intellectuals and even liberals among them. Now you will face with an political organization which will make you miss Muslim Brotherhood. The way he flopped is also very questionable. Would you like to be a general in an army, even sergeant tell you to fuck off when you command him. Old regime have deep roots, Mubarak's departure did not changed anything. It was a sham.
As for %90 of being Muslim. Same here but doesn't change anything. My country was a Jewish colony for a very long time. He who holds money holds you. Even if they are a tiny portion of populace. Alawites are %15 in Syria, they were ruling over %85 for a long time. In Turkiye's case, they are not even %1 but they are maintaining their power via the Turkish ones who are on sale.
Your people are still infant in politics. I can't blame much as your last 50 years spent living under military dictatorship. People are so open to manipulation, very fertile ground for the likes of Otpor to test their skills.
we r the ones to blame when we sing and dance in street's when a bunch of deluded, traitors, and brainwashed youth thought they were serving a holy purpose bombing civilians who might actually sympathize with your case.
What about those who celebrated the deaths of Muslim Brotherhood supporters, in Tahrir with fireworks and lasers?
For the west part. You might be disappointed but they will never consider us as human beings. You are are sand people and i am uruk-hai. That's how their so called intellectuals portrayed us in their works. We are the uglies, fought against brave 300 Spartans. Excluding very a few decent people, they see us as cows to be milked, should be slaughtered when milk is run out. They will never approve you as long as you don't start to think and live like them.
:broken:
He is tolerating me, while i am tolerating all of you. Am i getting an award as well?
How the West fails miserably in Egypt?
Since the beginning of the military coup in Egypt, many Western governments, particularity the United States, have taken great pains not to call it a coup. They have also been very shy when it came condemning the brutality of the Egyptian military. When dozens of peaceful protestors were shot dead by the soldiers, statements by some Western capitals called on “both sides” to be more restrained. No one openly called the massacre a massacre.
All of this, of course, is duly noted here in Turkey, where suspicions about Western intentions in the Middle East are already rampant. I have been quite critical of these suspicions, especially when they reached the level conspiracy theories that depict Turkey as the target of Western plots. But, alas, the West is doing everything in its capacity to inspire the conspiracy theorists of the East. Many pro-government commentators in Turkey are arguing these days that all their fears about the Gezi Park protests — that they were a Western-induced plot to topple Prime Minister Erdoğan — have been confirmed by what has just happened in Egypt: Popular demonstrations against President Mohamed Morsi invited a bloody military coup that got whitewashed by Western capitals.
In other words, while there is indeed anti-Western paranoia in the Middle East, the West also has a clear double standard for the same region, which only deepens the contempt against it.
The heart of the matter, of course, is Islamism, or outright Islam. A powerful narrative in the West has argued, for long, that if Islamists come to power in free and fair elections, they will only establish authoritarian regimes that will threaten the rights of minorities and dissenting individuals.
Notably, the cheapest example of this narrative — “Hitler came to power with elections, too” — comes from the history of the West itself, not the Middle East. (The Muslim World never had a Hitler who invented gas chambers to exterminate millions of innocent people.) Moreover, while the more reasonable worries about “illiberal democracy” are valid, military coups are not a solution to anything.
It might help the West a bit to rethink how its own democracies became more liberal over time, by the natural dynamics of society. In the United States, for example, the prohibition of alcohol — one of the most-feared agendas of the Islamists — took place less than a century ago. And it ended not with a military coup supported by a foreign civilization, but the trial-and-error experiment the Americans went through: They realized that banning alcohol served no one other than the mafia. Women’s suffrage and other rights, as well, progressed in the West only in the 20th century and quite gradually.
One of the core problems in the Middle East is that the region, including its Islamists, have never had the chance to have their own experiments, uncut by colonialism, foreign intervention, local dictators and military coups. The post-Mubarak Egypt could have been a good chance, had it not been suffocated by its brutal military, its military-loving “liberals,” and their Western patrons. It is a big pity that not only Egypt but also the whole Middle East and even the West itself will have to pay for it.
July/31/2013
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ho...gypt-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=51705&NewsCatID=411
turk morsy was removed for who he was, and the flop he turned out to be, the hypocrite he was/is, and more importantly the undemocratic ways he was was taking the day he toke office and not bec HE IS FROM THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD who mind you dont approve democracy but merely find it a way to get to power, and sure as hell not bec HE IS MUSLIM. egypt for the hundredth time is 90% muslim!!! if you throw at me the weal and over used minority card i dont know what to tell you execpt if the minority where this strong they would've ruled us ages ago
For the millionth time, if he was flopped he would be gone in next election. You can't call your so called army whenever the president do something you don't like. You can't call the police to arrest mayor if you don't like the color of newly painted paving stones in your street.
Every single faction use the democracy to get to power. If they say they don't, they lie. Is it ok for some and forbidden for some? It's been discussed, if you guys were patient enough, Muslim Brotherhood might lose the power in next election. But no, you couldn't take it more than one year under Morsi after living 30 years under Mubarak rule. It will back fire. You got rid of most moderate version of Muslims, there were a lot of intellectuals and even liberals among them. Now you will face with an political organization which will make you miss Muslim Brotherhood. The way he flopped is also very questionable. Would you like to be a general in an army, even sergeant tell you to fuck off when you command him. Old regime have deep roots, Mubarak's departure did not changed anything. It was a sham.
As for %90 of being Muslim. Same here but doesn't change anything. My country was a Jewish colony for a very long time. He who holds money holds you. Even if they are a tiny portion of populace. Alawites are %15 in Syria, they were ruling over %85 for a long time. In Turkiye's case, they are not even %1 but they are maintaining their power via the Turkish ones who are on sale.
Your people are still infant in politics. I can't blame much as your last 50 years spent living under military dictatorship. People are so open to manipulation, very fertile ground for the likes of Otpor to test their skills.
we r the ones to blame when we sing and dance in street's when a bunch of deluded, traitors, and brainwashed youth thought they were serving a holy purpose bombing civilians who might actually sympathize with your case.
What about those who celebrated the deaths of Muslim Brotherhood supporters, in Tahrir with fireworks and lasers?
For the west part. You might be disappointed but they will never consider us as human beings. You are are sand people and i am uruk-hai. That's how their so called intellectuals portrayed us in their works. We are the uglies, fought against brave 300 Spartans. Excluding very a few decent people, they see us as cows to be milked, should be slaughtered when milk is run out. They will never approve you as long as you don't start to think and live like them.
:broken:
He is tolerating me, while i am tolerating all of you. Am i getting an award as well?
How the West fails miserably in Egypt?
Since the beginning of the military coup in Egypt, many Western governments, particularity the United States, have taken great pains not to call it a coup. They have also been very shy when it came condemning the brutality of the Egyptian military. When dozens of peaceful protestors were shot dead by the soldiers, statements by some Western capitals called on “both sides” to be more restrained. No one openly called the massacre a massacre.
All of this, of course, is duly noted here in Turkey, where suspicions about Western intentions in the Middle East are already rampant. I have been quite critical of these suspicions, especially when they reached the level conspiracy theories that depict Turkey as the target of Western plots. But, alas, the West is doing everything in its capacity to inspire the conspiracy theorists of the East. Many pro-government commentators in Turkey are arguing these days that all their fears about the Gezi Park protests — that they were a Western-induced plot to topple Prime Minister Erdoğan — have been confirmed by what has just happened in Egypt: Popular demonstrations against President Mohamed Morsi invited a bloody military coup that got whitewashed by Western capitals.
In other words, while there is indeed anti-Western paranoia in the Middle East, the West also has a clear double standard for the same region, which only deepens the contempt against it.
The heart of the matter, of course, is Islamism, or outright Islam. A powerful narrative in the West has argued, for long, that if Islamists come to power in free and fair elections, they will only establish authoritarian regimes that will threaten the rights of minorities and dissenting individuals.
Notably, the cheapest example of this narrative — “Hitler came to power with elections, too” — comes from the history of the West itself, not the Middle East. (The Muslim World never had a Hitler who invented gas chambers to exterminate millions of innocent people.) Moreover, while the more reasonable worries about “illiberal democracy” are valid, military coups are not a solution to anything.
It might help the West a bit to rethink how its own democracies became more liberal over time, by the natural dynamics of society. In the United States, for example, the prohibition of alcohol — one of the most-feared agendas of the Islamists — took place less than a century ago. And it ended not with a military coup supported by a foreign civilization, but the trial-and-error experiment the Americans went through: They realized that banning alcohol served no one other than the mafia. Women’s suffrage and other rights, as well, progressed in the West only in the 20th century and quite gradually.
One of the core problems in the Middle East is that the region, including its Islamists, have never had the chance to have their own experiments, uncut by colonialism, foreign intervention, local dictators and military coups. The post-Mubarak Egypt could have been a good chance, had it not been suffocated by its brutal military, its military-loving “liberals,” and their Western patrons. It is a big pity that not only Egypt but also the whole Middle East and even the West itself will have to pay for it.
July/31/2013
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ho...gypt-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=51705&NewsCatID=411
You know it's getting dull when you repeat same irrevelant thing over and over again, but i will answer nonetheless.
It was a government which came to power after a military coup. They had neither legitimacy nor an Islamic agenda. On the contrary, they fully absorbed the precious western values. Without knowing it, everytime you bring this, you're justifying my argument.
It was a government which came to power after a military coup. They had neither legitimacy nor an Islamic agenda. On the contrary, they fully absorbed the precious western values. Without knowing it, everytime you bring this, you're justifying my argument.
Nobody mentioned Islam and Nobody mentioned democratic legitimacy, indeed, Hitler did not come to power in elections, hitler came to power through a super-presidential abuse of authority, a coalition government, and the work of Von Papen. Germany stopped being a 'democracy' in 1930, when Hinderberg assumed Dictatorial Powers in order to 'stabilize' and 'save' the new country.
So essentially, Hitler came about because a Morsi-esque president remained in power and got rid of liberal-democratic principles.
Wow, look at that, your argument is self-defeating...yet again.
So essentially, Hitler came about because a Morsi-esque president remained in power and got rid of liberal-democratic principles.
Wow, look at that, your argument is self-defeating...yet again.
Today's Germans might not like it but Hitler was the will of their grandparents.
Mass killing, disregard for human life is a disease appeared in your lands, there might be infected here as well but it won't change the origins of disease.
If people choose them, why not?
No, i wouldn't be screaming but there would be plenty of others doing that. At least i wouldn't argue with them and embarrass myself by defending the catastophe called military coup.
Mass killing, disregard for human life is a disease appeared in your lands, there might be infected here as well but it won't change the origins of disease.
If people choose them, why not?
No, i wouldn't be screaming but there would be plenty of others doing that. At least i wouldn't argue with them and embarrass myself by defending the catastophe called military coup.
Hitler was the will because he promised to return the country to glory, and at first sight, was solving the massive unemployment. however, nobody in germany wanted what he did with the jews.
And as morbid as it sounds however, a crapload of modern technoligy are comming from that era. So at least they died with purpose.
And as morbid as it sounds however, a crapload of modern technoligy are comming from that era. So at least they died with purpose.
