Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (12 Viewers)

king Ale

Senior Member
Oct 28, 2004
21,689
Do you think he doesn't deserve it?
He got what he deserved. He went down. But it's not the point. He is gone so I really hope Egyptians leave it all there.

what i meant by the highlighted part Hoori means, the people asking for him not to be judged infront of court should have some manners or good will if u like and put them selves in the place of the mothers, dad's, brother, and sisters of the people who lost there life by the bullets of the police forces by direct orders from Mubarak. sure they will try to prove the minister of interior acted on his own but Hoori it would be an insult to egyptains if they use that card bec we r not retarded to believe mubarak had no idea of what was going on in the streets.

as for do they want his execution, well if he is found quilty why not hoori?? if any normal person kills any one would'nt they be trialed and if the judge finds him quilty he would get the punishment as mentioned in the egyptain law?? why should he or his kids be any different?? by the way hoori he is getting good treatment infact mubarak is being spoiled, any normal egyptain citizen with what he has would'nt be getting all this care from assigning him to the best hospital etc etc.

will he get executed?? thats a totally different story bec a lot of factors go in. mubarak's Friends if u like and they r known are adding pressure on the current military council. personally i think he wont get executed, if he is lucky he might meet his god before a final sentence is issued but his kids are surely getting a punishment if they r found guilty.

mubarak is not just being trialed for the killing of people,, he is also being trialed in a lot of suspicious contracts with isreal ( the famous egyptain gas to isreal and jordan) and other buisness related scandals involving his sons. his youngest son gamal is also involved in the killing of people on the 2nd of feb in what is now known as the camel day or camel move.
One thing is for sure: Mubarak is responsible for every single bullet shot, for everyone dead on the streets. What I don't understand is this hunger for revenge. Don't your people think they just got the biggest victory of their lifetime? Didn't they sacrifice their lives to get what they wanted? I'm sorry but I don't understand this rage. It won't finish with Mubarak's execution. It will follow by more and more executions and then it will even get those who revolted against Mubarak. I'm sorry if I sound too pessimistic in my posts about Egypt but I think nothing is worse than resigning from power for a dictator like him. These extremely emotional reactions/demands/expectations shortly after revolutions are likely to be the starting point of a downfall.
 

Buy on AliExpress.com
OP

ReBeL

The Jackal
Jan 14, 2005
22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #1,742
    He got what he deserved. He went down. But it's not the point. He is gone so I really hope Egyptians leave it all there.



    One thing is for sure: Mubarak is responsible for every single bullet shot, for everyone dead on the streets. What I don't understand is this hunger for revenge. Don't your people think they just got the biggest victory of their lifetime? Didn't they sacrifice their lives to get what they wanted? I'm sorry but I don't understand this rage. It won't finish with Mubarak's execution. It will follow by more and more executions and then it will even get those who revolted against Mubarak. I'm sorry if I sound too pessimistic in my posts about Egypt but I think nothing is worse than resigning from power for a dictator like him. These extremely emotional reactions/demands/expectations shortly after revolutions are likely to be the starting point of a downfall.
    Arabs should fight to insist on applying the accountability principle. If he is not executed, other dictators will keep killing people. I don't know if you follow the news about Yemen or not, but one of the main results of Mubarak's trial is the rumours coming from Riyadh that the Yemeni dictator is so scared of going back to Yemen because he is afraid his people will do the same to him. If Mubarak is not executed, there would not be any way to scare those dictators from doing crimes in the future. It is not about revenge. It is just to make sure "Accountability" is applied on all the levels.
     

    king Ale

    Senior Member
    Oct 28, 2004
    21,689
    I can read this in another way: Assad will never stop killing his people now that he is in the midst of doing it because he knows he will be executed if he resigns. Both of these two interpretations could be right, but what's certain is that when you are corrupted by power, you never learn from several similar examples that history gives you. It's too much to expect from Mubarak's execution.
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #1,744
    I can read this in another way: Assad will never stop killing his people now that he is in the midst of doing it because he knows he will be executed if he resigns. Both of these two interpretations could be right, but what's certain is that when you are corrupted by power, you never learn from several similar examples that history gives you. It's too much to expect from Mubarak's execution.
    Are you against execution in general?
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #1,746
    I am but it has nothing to do with my stance on this. I don't think executing dictators after overthrowing them is a necessity.
    If you told me this since the beginning, we would have saved our time. If you feel that a murderer should not be accountable for what he did, then discussing this with you is just useless really.
     

    king Ale

    Senior Member
    Oct 28, 2004
    21,689
    I don't remember myself saying basically anything other than "it's not necessary to execute dictators after overthrowing them" from the beginning.
    I don't remember myself saying that a murderer is not responsible for his crime either.
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #1,748
    I don't remember myself saying basically anything other than "it's not necessary to execute dictators after overthrowing them" from the beginning.
    I don't remember myself saying that a murderer is not responsible for his crime either.
    Yeah, right. You want to set a murderer accountable for his crime by letting him live in a luxurious way until his life ends. Where the hell is the justice here?
     

    king Ale

    Senior Member
    Oct 28, 2004
    21,689
    Yeah, right. You want to set a murderer accountable for his crime by letting him live in a luxurious way until his life ends. Where the hell is the justice here?
    Seriously Abed? (you of all people I mean? Don't you believe in the "ultimate justice in Qiyamah?") So is this justice to set the same punishment for a dictator like Mubarak and someone who's killed someone in a fight? I could ask many other questions of that sort. It's not that I care about Mubarak's, Assad's or Khameneei's lives, it's also not that I think they wouldn't deserve it. I just think it's unnecessary and could have awful consequences.
     
    OP

    ReBeL

    The Jackal
    Jan 14, 2005
    22,871
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread Starter #1,750
    Seriously Abed? (you of all people I mean? Don't you believe in the "ultimate justice in Qiyamah?") So is this justice to set the same punishment for a dictator like Mubarak and someone who's killed someone in a fight? I could ask many other questions of that sort. It's not that I care about Mubarak's, Assad's or Khameneei's lives, it's also not that I think they wouldn't deserve it. I just think it's unnecessary and could have awful consequences.
    I believe in the ultimate justice after death, but I believe too in those verses:
    يا أيها الذين آمنوا كتب عليكم القصاص في القتلى
    ولكم في القصاص حياة يا اولي الالباب
     

    Fred

    Senior Member
    Oct 2, 2003
    41,113
    He got what he deserved. He went down. But it's not the point. He is gone so I really hope Egyptians leave it all there.



    One thing is for sure: Mubarak is responsible for every single bullet shot, for everyone dead on the streets. What I don't understand is this hunger for revenge. Don't your people think they just got the biggest victory of their lifetime? Didn't they sacrifice their lives to get what they wanted? I'm sorry but I don't understand this rage. It won't finish with Mubarak's execution. It will follow by more and more executions and then it will even get those who revolted against Mubarak. I'm sorry if I sound too pessimistic in my posts about Egypt but I think nothing is worse than resigning from power for a dictator like him. These extremely emotional reactions/demands/expectations shortly after revolutions are likely to be the starting point of a downfall.
    Its got nothing to do with revenge. He was responsible for the deaths of so many, he deserves to be executed. Revenge is if he was executed without a fair trial. But he is being given a fair trial, a chance to defend himself, something the 700 he killed didn't have.
     

    Bisco

    Senior Member
    Nov 21, 2005
    14,420
    interesting reads about the past few weeks, by sand monkey.

    Rantings of a Sandmonkey

    Bits and Pieces
    August 11, 2011 By The Sandmonkey 23 Comments

    There is a question that SCAF had at the beginning of the revolution: Is this a dignity revolution or a hunger revolution? After a while, they decided that it’s a dignity revolution, which is a lot easier to remedy than a hunger revolution. You see, a hunger revolution will tear everything apart, but a dignity revolution? Simple. Just give people some dignity.

    ” So, you want dignity? Fine, we will give you some dignity. First thing we will do is create a referendum where YOU get to choose how the country works, even though WE will condition you to vote the way WE want you to. And WE won’t allow anyone to subvert your will or choice no matter how much they protest. Then WE will give you a parliamentary elections that will be totally honest at some point during the year, where YOU get to choose the representative according to a system that WE choose. You would like that, wouldn’t you? Oh, but you have an issue with Mubarak. He robbed you of your dignity. No problem. We will put him on trial in front of cameras, just FOR YOU, even though he will never see a day of prison. How about that to restore your dignity? Happy, huh? Now who is your favorite SCAF?”

    Now that would work, if only that hunger revolution wasn’t coming as well….


    another article about the friday that saw islamists jump on the band wagon


    Unlike many of my compatriots, I was incredibly happy to see the Sharia Friday go down the way it went. Here is why:

    1. It ended the myth of Leftists-Islamist cooperation: For years I have been telling my leftist friends that any Leftist-Islamist alliance is a stupidly conceived idea on every level and is detrimental to the leftists more than anything, as history has shown every time such an alliance took place (Let’s not use Iran as our example, how about the 2005 Egyptian parliamentary elections? Oh, there was an alliance, and the MB ended up honoring the alliance by voting out every so called “leftist opposition politicians” from the Parliament). But no, please, let’s ignore that the Egyptian left has nothing in common with the Islamic right, neither socially nor economically (The economic programs of every Islamic party are the epitome of capitalism), and that the Left got screwed by the Islamic right repeatedly through-out the revolution, and make such an alliance and then act shocked when they dishonored the agreement. I understand that many people on the left believe in such an alliance because the Islamists used to get tortured in the same cell they used to get tortured in, but sometimes the enemy of my enemy can kiss my ass too. Just saying.
    2. It gave us a great hint to their size and financing: It was estimated to be 1-2 million and to have cost about 20 million LE, and this is all the salafi groups and the MB combined. If we apply a family multiple, let’s say 6, for each one there, then you have maximum 12 million islamists in Egypt, out of 85 million. Sweet. The money thing, however, not so sweet. They have incredible funding, which means this election will get very interesting very quickly.
    3. It scared the living shit out of the moderates: The best part about the whole experience was how alienating the islamist message was to the majority of Egyptians. Egyptians , for the last time, are moderates and this Afghanistan crap doesn’t appeal to them at all. So, the Islamists may have proven they can get numbers, but they have lost the center with this move. Good Job.

    So in a nutshell, the Sharia Friday was great. More of this please. How about one every week? I really want them to bleed money.

    source: http://www.sandmonkey.org/
     

    Bisco

    Senior Member
    Nov 21, 2005
    14,420
    man Abu Hazem will be a formidable foe in the elections, i really fear for egypt if he goes ahead with his plans
    i might be mistakened in the name but is'nt he the candidate for the salifists? if he is the one u r referring too deneb, then i agree with yr second part about fearing for egypt bec put aside which group he represents i honestly dont want a religious base for our rule. i watched several interviews with this guy and every time they ask him questions like what will u do about tourism ( apperently being topless for these freaks means nude beaches!! please show me the way!! but this is there way they push everything to the extreme to ring bells about things that only exist in there sick imagination), about the pyramids he always says i will ask azhar scholars and based on there verdict i will act!! he thinks we dont need beaches to bring in national income and stuff like that really turns me off bec its interfering with every ones freedom. if some one wants to go naked its there free right but the fact they want to push for what saudi have which is religious police if u like to call it, that is just sth that wont sit well with us egyptains what so ever!! this is one of the bright spots as to why he might be a formidable candidate but not necessarily going on to win it. my beef with this group is not there ideology which lets face it is yr typical average educated egyptain who hits the shores of saudi and faps to there system which in the eyes of the saudi's them selves is a back wards thing u just watch the new generation coming out of saudi in the coming future they r sick and tired of being suffocated by these wahabi groups. so as i was saying they hit the coasts of saudi become fucking hypocrites and act like the saudi hard core scholars and they actually get brain washed then come back to the mother land and preach there hard core teachings. now they r'nt the majority as most egyptains my self included put our trust in religious matters in the hand of the azhar an identity they have issues with as its pretty moderate and its voice is moderate. the conclusion is i dont see it happening even though they use a freakishly dirty way of reaching there goals and its playing on the non educated majority of egyptains found in the other cities of egypt par cairo and alexandria and thats where there strong hold is, not to mention there continous talking out of there ass about things they dont know the meaning off and defaming people with opposite opinions and going as far as calling them homo's ( true story) and there beloved non believer crap ( kafer) and its no secret they r getting support from there brothers and exact replica's in saudi. so i hope egyptains make the right choice come elections or we might end up with these lovely beings and u can kiss good bye free and open egypt where every one has a big margin of freedom in his personal life. if u want to pray u go pray if u dont then no one comes up to u and tells u shut yr shop and go pray by force, if u want to wear a veil go for it if u dont then its up too u, etc etc.

    in the long run religious rule in egypt will turn into being oppressed of all sorts of freedoms based on religion specially the one regarding turning on yr ruler if he goes astray or turns to be a mubarak, nor to mention censoring news outlets, media, internet etc
     

    GordoDeCentral

    Diez
    Moderator
    Apr 14, 2005
    70,866
    exactly, but i think you're underestimating the guy, besides being a shrewd politician(pinning anyone against as basically anti-islamic using the dichotomy of halal vs haram) he has a doctorate in law and appeals to a lot middle class'ers which is quite uncommon for an 'islamist'. And the brotherhood is the most organized political enitity at the moment so a win for them would deeply impact egypt since they get to write the constitution as well.
     

    Bisco

    Senior Member
    Nov 21, 2005
    14,420
    exactly, but i think you're underestimating the guy, besides being a shrewd politician(pinning anyone against as basically anti-islamic using the dichotomy of halal vs haram) he has a doctorate in law and appeals to a lot middle class'ers which is quite uncommon for an 'islamist'. And the brotherhood is the most organized political enitity at the moment so a win for them would deeply impact egypt since they get to write the constitution as well.
    no doubt i agree with what u just posted, and thats why they r in arms right now bec the military council two days ago released the basics for the constitution and it got signed by the majority of the parties the brother hood in particular is pissed off but the majority of egyptains like it as it states egypt is a civil and demogratic nation, islam is the main religion and the outlines of the sharia will be used for muslims and coptics will use there rules to run there personal matters etc etc which in all honesty is the best thing bec we dont live a lone in this nation we have coptics who should live in this country freely and with out any sort of discrimination its a bout time.

    he is a very educated man no doubt bro and his playing on halal and haram will have its effect he is smart and obviously knows the egyptain mentality, but after the release of this out line for the consistitution the fear from these groups winning the parliament seats is no longer as threatening as it was. i would sooooooooooooooooooooo agree with u had this constitution out line not been released but now its clear to them what this nation will always be, and i dont fear them as much now.

    p.s deneb if u can read arabic i can show this out line to u, if not let me see if i can get u an english version. i tried to look for it on al jazeerah english but failed to locate it so i will ask a friend of mine who might be able to hook me up with an english version.
     

    Bisco

    Senior Member
    Nov 21, 2005
    14,420
    thanks for the update i actually didnt hear about the constitution being set up prior to elections, i wonder how that will be justified legally, but i am happy their plans were thwarted
    no worries bro, its not the constitution deneb, its more like this is the outline for it i,e these points are constant they dont change u set up around this. i will try my best to find u the english version as i cant really find the term to explain what this out line is.
     

    Bisco

    Senior Member
    Nov 21, 2005
    14,420
    here u go deneb, here r the main points, not all of them as they r 20 points in that list. will try to find the rest but these mentioned here are the ones that r causing the islamist aka salafists and brotherhood to be pissed off :D

    Egyptian Official Releases Constitutional Principles Document

    AlMasry AlYoum on Sunday published an abridged version of the document titled "Basic Constitutional Principles" which Egypt's deputy prime minister for political affairs has presented to several political parties for their comment. (See prior related posting.) In outlining the suggested role for religion and religious freedom, the document reads in part:

    Islam is the state religion, the Arabic language is its official language, and Islamic Sharia is the primary source of legislation. Non-Muslims resort to their own laws in regards to their personal issues and religious affairs.....

    Human dignity is every person’s genuine right, and all Egyptian citizens are free and equal before the law in rights and freedoms and general obligations. Discrimination among them due to sex, origin, language, religion, creeds, wealth, social status, political views, or disabilities or anything of that sort is forbidden.

    ...The state guarantees freedom of belief, worship, and religious slogans and protects the role of worship.
     

    Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 8)