Egypt: from 2011 demonstrations to today (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter ReBeL
- Start date
That's my point. There are things that are wrong, regardless of what the majority wants. And when you have a ruling class, even if it is democratically elected, whose ONLY responsibility is to rule as best as possible according to a religion, there is a huge problem. Because there is noone that can hold them responsible to things that are wrong regardless of what their religion says about them.
It depends. If someone wants to work as a prostitute and is not being forced to do it, that has nothing to do with slavery. But, as we know, in many cases of prostitution the prostitutes are being put in a position where they have no choice, either because they are threatened with violence, or because they are addicted to drugs that they won't get unless they work and so on.
The problem here is that the "business men" who are running the prostitution business have too much power over the prostitutes. At the same time, you can't just say "we will end prostitution", because noone ever succeeded. Prostitution exists in every country. As long as there are customers who want to hire prostitutes, there will be a business.
So what the government decided to do here in Holland, is to legalize prostitution. They did this precisely so that the prostitutes would be in a better position, that they would not have to hide from the police and depend even more on their "employers". Of course that doesn't mean that the whole problem is solved, but it's a better system than one in which they are thrown in jail.
Noone in Europe is disputing whether homosexuality should be a crime. It is simply, legal. The fact that homosexuals don't have all the rights that heterosexuals have does not change this. Their basic right to be homosexual, to live with other homosexuals if they want, is there.
What people are disputing is whether, for example, they should have the right to adopt children. That is the sense in which is disputed. It is NOT disputed "whether it should be legal".
It depends. If someone wants to work as a prostitute and is not being forced to do it, that has nothing to do with slavery. But, as we know, in many cases of prostitution the prostitutes are being put in a position where they have no choice, either because they are threatened with violence, or because they are addicted to drugs that they won't get unless they work and so on.
The problem here is that the "business men" who are running the prostitution business have too much power over the prostitutes. At the same time, you can't just say "we will end prostitution", because noone ever succeeded. Prostitution exists in every country. As long as there are customers who want to hire prostitutes, there will be a business.
So what the government decided to do here in Holland, is to legalize prostitution. They did this precisely so that the prostitutes would be in a better position, that they would not have to hide from the police and depend even more on their "employers". Of course that doesn't mean that the whole problem is solved, but it's a better system than one in which they are thrown in jail.
Noone in Europe is disputing whether homosexuality should be a crime. It is simply, legal. The fact that homosexuals don't have all the rights that heterosexuals have does not change this. Their basic right to be homosexual, to live with other homosexuals if they want, is there.
What people are disputing is whether, for example, they should have the right to adopt children. That is the sense in which is disputed. It is NOT disputed "whether it should be legal".
Well Islam doesn't force society into it, you can be an atheist in our Ideal society
002.256
YUSUFALI: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
but you're not allowed to go in public doubting and criticizing Islam and making new religions or insulting Islam or prophets, but you're most welcome to debate and ask all you want about Islam with sheikhs and educated ones
Many muslims believe that unbelievers should be excuted, according to a history incident once Muhammad PBUH died and lots of muslims went back to unbelievaing or changed faith and such, new Caliph Abu Bakr faught them
but he did because they were threating the newly born Islamic country, they were going to attack and they were harming the society
but not because they chaneged their faith
there's also a good example, once in a war Osama Ibn Zayd was about to kill an enemy, and right before he did the man declared himself muslim (obviously to get away as it seems) but Muhammad refused to let Osama kill him, because faith is between the man and God, not for us to judge
About homosexuals, our laws certainly won't protect them, and they will have to hide and do whatever they do in secret, and let God judge them not us
to actually get them to punished according to Islam's rules, they either tell on themselves (won't happen) or 4 people see them doing it (won't happen either)
that's why Islamic punishments (as stoning) which seem extreme, were obviously put to scare people off sins, they very rarely get applied
of course in taliban and with extremists they're applied and very misused, but I assure you there isn't any place on the planet that applies Islam 100% right, only individuals around the world.
Well I really can't get deeper into the accepting or not accepting homosexual behaviour, no one knows for sure if it's a psychological condition, a choice or if they're born like this
002.256
YUSUFALI: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
but you're not allowed to go in public doubting and criticizing Islam and making new religions or insulting Islam or prophets, but you're most welcome to debate and ask all you want about Islam with sheikhs and educated ones
Many muslims believe that unbelievers should be excuted, according to a history incident once Muhammad PBUH died and lots of muslims went back to unbelievaing or changed faith and such, new Caliph Abu Bakr faught them
but he did because they were threating the newly born Islamic country, they were going to attack and they were harming the society
but not because they chaneged their faith
there's also a good example, once in a war Osama Ibn Zayd was about to kill an enemy, and right before he did the man declared himself muslim (obviously to get away as it seems) but Muhammad refused to let Osama kill him, because faith is between the man and God, not for us to judge
About homosexuals, our laws certainly won't protect them, and they will have to hide and do whatever they do in secret, and let God judge them not us
to actually get them to punished according to Islam's rules, they either tell on themselves (won't happen) or 4 people see them doing it (won't happen either)
that's why Islamic punishments (as stoning) which seem extreme, were obviously put to scare people off sins, they very rarely get applied
of course in taliban and with extremists they're applied and very misused, but I assure you there isn't any place on the planet that applies Islam 100% right, only individuals around the world.
Well I really can't get deeper into the accepting or not accepting homosexual behaviour, no one knows for sure if it's a psychological condition, a choice or if they're born like this
That is really fucked up imo. Don't you think it sounds like a dictatorship when you cannot discuss/question the rules that everyone has to follow? When you can't criticize? When you cannot have an opposition?
Well, you could ask them. Every homosexual in history has said "I was born like this". Can you make yourself homosexual if you really wanted to? If you were given drugs? Psychological treatment? If you don't think so, well neither can they change. If you believe that God created people the way they are, then apparently he must have had some reason to make homosexuals homosexual. That's not a reason to hate them or beat them up. If you are disgusted by them (as some people have said), fine, continue being disgusted. That doesn't hurt anyone.
Well, you could ask them. Every homosexual in history has said "I was born like this". Can you make yourself homosexual if you really wanted to? If you were given drugs? Psychological treatment? If you don't think so, well neither can they change. If you believe that God created people the way they are, then apparently he must have had some reason to make homosexuals homosexual. That's not a reason to hate them or beat them up. If you are disgusted by them (as some people have said), fine, continue being disgusted. That doesn't hurt anyone.
This is the thing, like I read somewhere in this thread, politics and religions are a bad mix
I definitely don't want the muslim brotherhood to rule, they are following Islam better than the current government for sure, but they're not good enough in everything else
they'll make it horrible for all the minorites and I know they'll ban freedom, so I surely can't guarantee they'll be good, but anything is better than Mubarak
still I think we have better choices then Muslim brotherhood
and until I find a good Islamic leader, I don't want Islamic law in their way
personally I think the muslim brotherhood are using Islam to climb up, the man who started the group was a great muslim, and Abdelnasser almost joined them and his revolution was this close to be Islamic, but something happened that history doesn't know and he changed his mind
but the ones from the brotherhood now aren't as good as 50 years ago.
bottomline, no one from what I see can apply Islam 100% right.
I definitely don't want the muslim brotherhood to rule, they are following Islam better than the current government for sure, but they're not good enough in everything else
they'll make it horrible for all the minorites and I know they'll ban freedom, so I surely can't guarantee they'll be good, but anything is better than Mubarak
still I think we have better choices then Muslim brotherhood
and until I find a good Islamic leader, I don't want Islamic law in their way
personally I think the muslim brotherhood are using Islam to climb up, the man who started the group was a great muslim, and Abdelnasser almost joined them and his revolution was this close to be Islamic, but something happened that history doesn't know and he changed his mind
but the ones from the brotherhood now aren't as good as 50 years ago.
bottomline, no one from what I see can apply Islam 100% right.
You are really up to defending homosexuals Martin.. Something we should know about? 
I just told you you're most welcome to question, discuss and debate in the Islamic country! but you're not allowed to insult and attack, that's just out of respect, not against freedom at all
Well personally I'd never hurt a homosexual (whether he chose to or he was born one I don't know honestly) and I don't have the right to judge anyone, they're free to do what they want of course, and I believe they shouldn't be oppressed or praised
Well personally I'd never hurt a homosexual (whether he chose to or he was born one I don't know honestly) and I don't have the right to judge anyone, they're free to do what they want of course, and I believe they shouldn't be oppressed or praised
good one
I meant to keep it nice and clean, call DN not good enough for us, but don't call him a son of a *****, but that's when the debate is about a person.
while Islam and it's laws are fixed, not subjected to change, and there are people who spent their lives studying these laws
you can say I'm against this one law, and they'll stand up and show you why it's good, as long as respect is kept if you know what I mean
there are different kinds of criticism, some criticise DN because he shouldn't have taken out Aquilani. well thats good, if you could tell him in his face he may learn a new thing and get better, and Islam encourages that
and there's useless criticism, like calling him stupid, well no one gained anything from it
I meant to keep it nice and clean, call DN not good enough for us, but don't call him a son of a *****, but that's when the debate is about a person.
while Islam and it's laws are fixed, not subjected to change, and there are people who spent their lives studying these laws
you can say I'm against this one law, and they'll stand up and show you why it's good, as long as respect is kept if you know what I mean
there are different kinds of criticism, some criticise DN because he shouldn't have taken out Aquilani. well thats good, if you could tell him in his face he may learn a new thing and get better, and Islam encourages that
and there's useless criticism, like calling him stupid, well no one gained anything from it
Omar Soliman new vice president is talking right now on TV
عمر سليمان : نظرا لضيق الوقت يجب العمل بالدستور الحالي وترك أمر الدستور الجديد لاحقا
English: "Omar Soliman: since we don't have much time, we'll keep the current laws and make the changes (improvements) later"
FAIL
عمر سليمان : نظرا لضيق الوقت يجب العمل بالدستور الحالي وترك أمر الدستور الجديد لاحقا
English: "Omar Soliman: since we don't have much time, we'll keep the current laws and make the changes (improvements) later"
FAIL