Does God exist? (William Lane Craig vs Peter Atkins debate) (132 Viewers)

[IliveForJuve]

Amen brothers!

 

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[acmilan]

I should probably edit my signature, in that case.

probably?

 

[icemaη]

QUITE, HOORI! We're trying to convert the lad, not send him back to the abyss of blind faith!

Uh oh

 

[Mohad]

 

[acmilan]

nothing more than just a lip slip there, don't read into it

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Uh oh

Greg once did say that atheism is proselytizing too, but we deny it. Not me. I fully embrace it and will convert every living human! :evil:

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Welcome to hell, Claudio.

 

[Juve_fanatic]

What you're describing is called Pascal's Wager. While it is ok to think like that, there is one major flaw: what if you're believing in the wrong god? Normally, if someone says "there is a god", people would be inclined to think that the god that THEY believe in exists. But they'll never think about the 1000 other gods that other people believe or believed in. What if the real god is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who will banish believers of all other gods to hell?

What you're suggesting we do is to gamble on the possibility that there is a god. If so, then you need to gamble on every god that has ever been written about. Cos all of them can be true.

Yes, you are right Sheik. I can only say that it is a bigger problem to believe or not believe in A God than choosing which one you will believe in. So i dont see this as that big of a problem or a flaw and that wasnt my point at all. But i will tell you this, if you start believing in a certain God and have the faith in him and all, and if God, the REAL God, whoever he is, does exist, he will see that you are mistaken by believing in a WRONG God and will help you find the right way, and start believing in him. If NO God exists, then again, the flaw will not matter at all since when you die, it wont matter which God you believed in. I hope i make myself clear, cause after all i write this in english......It sounds so much clearer in my mother language

Oh course believers have something to lose. If you, as a believer, follow rules of a certain religion. Perhaps a situation will come along where the rules of your religion prohibit you from doing something you feel like, and you don't do it because you think there is some kingdom waiting for you after you finish this life - you are missing out. So if God isn't real, and we all just perish - the believer will certainly have lost something in the only existence he will ever experience.

I tell you again Nzoric, it wont matter AT ALL if you missed out on some things during your lifetime when you die and all that happens is worms eating you and nothing else......If God doesnt exist, then when you die, you die and thats it.

Believers have nothing to lose, yeah right. Spending your whole life following a fantasy that is then exposed to you, it doesn't get a bigger loss than that.

Read bellow......

Hoow does it get exposed? If there is no god you will never know.

 

[Nzoric]

What I mean is that god is a concept you could perceive without necessarily needing to resort to blind faith.

It goes very well in hand with the poll in this thread. I think therefore God exists --> Man make god. I'm just glad that we agree on the part that god is a product of my existence - not the other way around. That's how I perceived what you wrote anyway.

 

[Martin]

How good it feels to check up on this thread once in a while without feeling an obsessive urge to get involved.

 

[Nzoric]

I tell you again Nzoric, it wont matter AT ALL if you missed out on some things during your lifetime when you die and all that happens is worms eating you and nothing else......If God doesnt exist, then when you die, you die and thats it.

Oh but don't you understand? If you limit yourself while you are alive, because of faith in god and his teachings, in this one existence which we can actually prove to be real, and you die only to become worm food - how have you not missed out? You might not regret doing those things while you are rotting in the ground - but you would have had a fuller existence while being alive.

 

[Juve_fanatic]

Oh but don't you understand? If you limit yourself while you are alive, because of faith in god and his teachings, in this one existence which we can actually prove to be real, and you die only to become worm food - how have you not missed out? You might not regret doing those things while you are rotting in the ground - but you would have had a fuller existence while being alive.

True.....but you will never come to realise this if you die and nothing happens. How can you possibly even think about this? If in the final hours of your life you are still a believer and you die as one, and it turnes out there is nothing after that, how will it matter if you "could have lived a fuller life"? Who will ever know this, who will even think about this? Certainly not you, and certainly not the people that you have left behind who also do not know the truth.....

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Filip, the important part here is not your death and what happens after it, but your life. The 50-60 years is all that you get. It's all the time you get to physically interact with this world you have all around you. It's purely wishful thinking to believe that your consciousness and your thoughts will remain after you die. IT WON'T. See the video below to get an idea of what I'm trying to say:


THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THERE'S AN AFTERLIFE. None whatsoever. No matter what the books say, we know nothing about it for certain. It is all hear-say! And believing it or having faith in it WILL NOT MAKE IT TRUE! The only guarantee you have is THIS LIFE. This one life where you get so experience the world and all it has to offer. So live it to the fullest.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

you think, therefore you exist.

I wank, therefore I am.

 

[bianconero]

How good it feels to check up on this thread once in a while without feeling an obsessive urge to get involved.

A little like god checking up on Earth every now and then, I suppose.

 

[JuveJay]

Read bellow......

I replied to that, hey ho.

 

[Nzoric]

True.....but you will never come to realise this if you die and nothing happens. How can you possibly even think about this? If in the final hours of your life you are still a believer and you die as one, and it turnes out there is nothing after that, how will it matter if you "could have lived a fuller life"? Who will ever know this, who will even think about this? Certainly not you, and certainly not the people that you have left behind who also do not know the truth.....

We seem to talk past each other. Who gives a flying fuck about what happens when you are rotting in the ground. Why miss out on something NOW for some prize you can't possibly know you will get. You will never have time to regret it, but that doesn't matter. It matters that you didn't do it, and you could have left this earth having lived a more fulfilling existence.

 

[JuveJay]

If there is a god: Atheists lose completely.
If there is no god: Belief in god can still improve your life.

If there is no god: Belief in god makes you idiotic. Belief in living in a positive way, god or no god, improves your life.

 

[DelpieroForLife]

Funny you say that. I've always had this question in my mind that IF there were no religious texts to inform us about the concept of god, would our mind still formulate the god hypothesis as a possibility?

I think so, realizing that we will die one day is the tax we pay for our consciousness, this inevitable fate will always lead man to search for explanations and I believe that a supernatural entity will always arise as a possibility when man lack an explanation that is supported by proof and observation.

 

[Elvin]

Filip, the important part here is not your death and what happens after it, but your life. The 50-60 years is all that you get. It's all the time you get to physically interact with this world you have all around you. It's purely wishful thinking to believe that your consciousness and your thoughts will remain after you die. IT WON'T. See the video below to get an idea of what I'm trying to say:


THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT THERE'S AN AFTERLIFE. None whatsoever. No matter what the books say, we know nothing about it for certain. It is all hear-say! And believing it or having faith in it WILL NOT MAKE IT TRUE! The only guarantee you have is THIS LIFE. This one life where you get so experience the world and all it has to offer. So live it to the fullest.

Well, are you? Are you living it to the fullest?
I always approach statements like that with skepticism. Just as religious people's beliefs are flawed because they don't fully live what they believe in, so is this kinda people's beliefs are flawed because they DON'T FUCKIN LIVE IT TO THE FULLEST for sure, it's just live fast die young bullshit that sounds cool but no one really has balls to do it.