LOST 3 CL'S IN A ROW, LOST EURO 2000, ALWAYS GETS SUBBED IN BIG GAMES(BARCA-JUVE, MILAN-JUVE)
DEFINITELY A CHOKER
DEFINITELY A CHOKER
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Del Piero: a hero or a choker? (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Zlatan
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So what if he's a choker? This doesn't mean that he hasn't helped us over these past two seasons. If not for him we wouldn't have won either of those Scudetti, so give the man some credit.
Also, you say that you're talking about the present and that DP is a choker, but because he may fail to perform in a couple of big games does not mean that he didn't help us or make a contribution to our season.
Also, you say that you're talking about the present and that DP is a choker, but because he may fail to perform in a couple of big games does not mean that he didn't help us or make a contribution to our season.
WTF! :groan: So all of a sudden it's Del Piero's fault that we lost three Champions League finals in a row? 
In 97 DP came off the bench and scored a lovely goal. In 98 DP played a relatively good game and set up some great chances for Inzaghi and co. And in 2003, not only did DP under-perform, so did the whole team, bar Zambrotta.
Also, I know that Alex didn't have the best of games in the Barcelona clash, but the main reason as to why he was subbed was because Davids had been sent off and we needed to keep balance, so obviously we couldn't keep two strikers on the field, and had we taken off the other striker, DP would have had to play as a lone striker, and we all know that he doesn't excel in this role.
PS. When did DP get subbed against Milan?
In 97 DP came off the bench and scored a lovely goal. In 98 DP played a relatively good game and set up some great chances for Inzaghi and co. And in 2003, not only did DP under-perform, so did the whole team, bar Zambrotta. Also, I know that Alex didn't have the best of games in the Barcelona clash, but the main reason as to why he was subbed was because Davids had been sent off and we needed to keep balance, so obviously we couldn't keep two strikers on the field, and had we taken off the other striker, DP would have had to play as a lone striker, and we all know that he doesn't excel in this role.
PS. When did DP get subbed against Milan?
Zlatan, Glenn, Davidz and all other DP bashers, I'd just like to use some examples from last season to prove to you that Alex wasn't that much of a choker.
Big games in Serie A
Juve 2-1 Milan: DP assisted both goals and played a good game overall.
Inter 1-1 Juve: DP scored the only goal and played a good game overall.
Roma 2-2 Juve: Roma were leading 2-0 and DP hauled us back into the game with a vital goal.
Juve 1-2 Lazio: DP struggled.
Milan 2-1 Juve: DP had just recovered from an injury and as a result came in at half time.
Juve 2-1 Roma: DP scored both goals.
Lazio 0-0 Juve: DP struggled.
As you guys can see Del Piero only failed us on two occasions.
CL: No real big games in the first group stage... DP played OK against Deportivo... was absent for both ManU matches... wasn't very good in any of the Barca matches... was average against Real in the Bernabeu... was along with Zambro and Neddy our best player in the home game against Real... was average against Milan.
Big games in Serie A
Juve 2-1 Milan: DP assisted both goals and played a good game overall.
Inter 1-1 Juve: DP scored the only goal and played a good game overall.
Roma 2-2 Juve: Roma were leading 2-0 and DP hauled us back into the game with a vital goal.
Juve 1-2 Lazio: DP struggled.
Milan 2-1 Juve: DP had just recovered from an injury and as a result came in at half time.
Juve 2-1 Roma: DP scored both goals.
Lazio 0-0 Juve: DP struggled.
As you guys can see Del Piero only failed us on two occasions.
CL: No real big games in the first group stage... DP played OK against Deportivo... was absent for both ManU matches... wasn't very good in any of the Barca matches... was average against Real in the Bernabeu... was along with Zambro and Neddy our best player in the home game against Real... was average against Milan.
Serie A arent big games, CL are. Its the hardest matches where a player can most prove himself, when the pressure is biggest and than istn Serie A. You have 34 games to win the title, one doesnt have to mean anything, especially when you have a decent lead like we did from after the winter break. The CL, however, is a different issue. One game means a whole lot and one loss can kick you out. The importance and the pressure are huge. That is where a player proves his character. Del Piero failed Against France, Barcelona x 2, Real x 1, and Milan. For me that constitutes a choker,
The opposite of a choker would be the go to guy, the clutch guy. He can play badly all season but you know he'll perform when its most important, take the last shot and make it. There are very few examples in football, but if we take an universal example then that would have to be Michael Jordan. The clutch guy. The go to guy. And you and me both know that will never be Del Piero.
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The opposite of a choker would be the go to guy, the clutch guy. He can play badly all season but you know he'll perform when its most important, take the last shot and make it. There are very few examples in football, but if we take an universal example then that would have to be Michael Jordan. The clutch guy. The go to guy. And you and me both know that will never be Del Piero.
P.S. <---------------- 2500. Star
:thumb:
++ [ originally posted by G_O_A_T ] ++
Serie A arent big games, CL are. Its the hardest matches where a player can most prove himself, when the pressure is biggest and than istn Serie A. You have 34 games to win the title, one doesnt have to mean anything, especially when you have a decent lead like we did from after the winter break. The CL, however, is a different issue. One game means a whole lot and one loss can kick you out. The importance and the pressure are huge. That is where a player proves his character. Del Piero failed Against France, Barcelona x 2, Real x 1, and Milan. For me that constitutes a choker,
The opposite of a choker would be the go to guy, the clutch guy. He can play badly all season but you know he'll perform when its most important, take the last shot and make it. There are very few examples in football, but if we take an universal example then that would have to be Michael Jordan. The clutch guy. The go to guy. And you and me both know that will never be Del Piero.
P.S. <---------------- 2500. Star :thumb:
Serie A arent big games, CL are. Its the hardest matches where a player can most prove himself, when the pressure is biggest and than istn Serie A. You have 34 games to win the title, one doesnt have to mean anything, especially when you have a decent lead like we did from after the winter break. The CL, however, is a different issue. One game means a whole lot and one loss can kick you out. The importance and the pressure are huge. That is where a player proves his character. Del Piero failed Against France, Barcelona x 2, Real x 1, and Milan. For me that constitutes a choker,
The opposite of a choker would be the go to guy, the clutch guy. He can play badly all season but you know he'll perform when its most important, take the last shot and make it. There are very few examples in football, but if we take an universal example then that would have to be Michael Jordan. The clutch guy. The go to guy. And you and me both know that will never be Del Piero.
P.S. <---------------- 2500. Star
:thumb:
I'd have to agree with Zlatan, the Champions League is a true test of character, serie a always depends on your position and how many games remain, and we had a comfortable lead already from halfway thru the season. In CL, you have to win every game...
Good example with MJ. Even though EVERYONE knew that they'd give the ball to him, he consistently managed to receive, jump up and hit the shot... personally I unfortunately don't think i could place all my trust in DP to do that
now now... lets look at this from a logical point of view. Well start with WC.
WC 98: DP Failed to live up to his expecations. (I am not sure if he was injured...)
WC 02: DP was not played in the first group matches other than being subbed on at the end. When he was subbed on in the Mexico game, he scored a goal when Italy needed it most. It was under very intense cirumstances, and people say he saved Italy from complete embarrassement. The next game against S. Koreo, was just sad tactics by Trap and the Team.
Euro 2000: Played a fairly well tournament, scored a very nice goal. But people blame him for Italys loss. Why? Because he missed 2 'good' chances to wrap up the game. But it happened in Euro and in the WC02, Italy had a 1 - 0 lead, and were content. In no wise was it his fault, it was the teams fault.
I wont go into CL and stuff, its already been mentioned.
And just for the record, this last Italy game against S&M for the Euro Quals, was the first Qualifying game this term that DP didnt score in (excluding the game he was injured in) Just letting you know that he is NOT a choker.
WC 98: DP Failed to live up to his expecations. (I am not sure if he was injured...)
WC 02: DP was not played in the first group matches other than being subbed on at the end. When he was subbed on in the Mexico game, he scored a goal when Italy needed it most. It was under very intense cirumstances, and people say he saved Italy from complete embarrassement. The next game against S. Koreo, was just sad tactics by Trap and the Team.
Euro 2000: Played a fairly well tournament, scored a very nice goal. But people blame him for Italys loss. Why? Because he missed 2 'good' chances to wrap up the game. But it happened in Euro and in the WC02, Italy had a 1 - 0 lead, and were content. In no wise was it his fault, it was the teams fault.
I wont go into CL and stuff, its already been mentioned.
And just for the record, this last Italy game against S&M for the Euro Quals, was the first Qualifying game this term that DP didnt score in (excluding the game he was injured in) Just letting you know that he is NOT a choker.
++ [ originally posted by G_O_A_T ] ++
Serie A arent big games, CL are. Its the hardest matches where a player can most prove himself, when the pressure is biggest and than istn Serie A. You have 34 games to win the title, one doesnt have to mean anything, especially when you have a decent lead like we did from after the winter break. The CL, however, is a different issue. One game means a whole lot and one loss can kick you out. The importance and the pressure are huge. That is where a player proves his character. Del Piero failed Against France, Barcelona x 2, Real x 1, and Milan. For me that constitutes a choker,
The opposite of a choker would be the go to guy, the clutch guy. He can play badly all season but you know he'll perform when its most important, take the last shot and make it. There are very few examples in football, but if we take an universal example then that would have to be Michael Jordan. The clutch guy. The go to guy. And you and me both know that will never be Del Piero.
P.S. <---------------- 2500. Star :thumb:
Serie A arent big games, CL are. Its the hardest matches where a player can most prove himself, when the pressure is biggest and than istn Serie A. You have 34 games to win the title, one doesnt have to mean anything, especially when you have a decent lead like we did from after the winter break. The CL, however, is a different issue. One game means a whole lot and one loss can kick you out. The importance and the pressure are huge. That is where a player proves his character. Del Piero failed Against France, Barcelona x 2, Real x 1, and Milan. For me that constitutes a choker,
The opposite of a choker would be the go to guy, the clutch guy. He can play badly all season but you know he'll perform when its most important, take the last shot and make it. There are very few examples in football, but if we take an universal example then that would have to be Michael Jordan. The clutch guy. The go to guy. And you and me both know that will never be Del Piero.
P.S. <---------------- 2500. Star
:thumb:
You have given me examples of games DP has failed in...how bout you give me the games he has excelled in. You have mentioned that he didnt do good in the Quaterfinals of CL, but you dont mention the Quaterfinals or semis of Euro... Why dont you acknowledge him for success too? NOw that you have done your first homework assignment; finding the games he didnt do well in, now its time to find the games he did do well in. Ill give you a week, because there is much work to do and alot of typing...
Has just returned from long lay off and injury. what did you expect.??
I agree, That goal he scored against sweden was rated the second best goal in the tournament after Figo's, brilliant stuff. and if you want to blame someone for the Euro Final then it has to be Cannavaro who missed clearing the ball with his header.
Exactly My point they are just looking at the negativity and the bad games he played, ignoring all the games that he excelled in.
Zlatan - Congrats for your 2500 posts, where is your dedication you bastard and btw you are not up to this argument so you better get lost. Loser
I agree, That goal he scored against sweden was rated the second best goal in the tournament after Figo's, brilliant stuff. and if you want to blame someone for the Euro Final then it has to be Cannavaro who missed clearing the ball with his header.
Exactly My point they are just looking at the negativity and the bad games he played, ignoring all the games that he excelled in.
Zlatan - Congrats for your 2500 posts, where is your dedication you bastard and btw you are not up to this argument so you better get lost. Loser
I kinda agree with this post.
Del Piero is a choker 4 who expet him to make the difference and win matches alone, but if you just not expecting it... he is a good player, not the most important in Juve but neither the one of who to be worry mostly.
I think that what create the missunderstanding was his 1997/98 season in which he made 21 goals and not just that... he made assistits, contrasted and partecipate to the game. That year he was really considered one of the best serie A player and cause he was quite young everybody started saying that he will be the one who could take us to win France WC that he could become the new italian soccer simble, ecc... than when all of those things was disattended all the "public opinion" started schouting vs him everything... and especially cause of WC 98 wheare he became the simble of failure he became ItalY most hated player.
But looking trought DP career overall we may say that he is not a hero neighter a choker but in the middle cause he did one year rocking one year and a half sucking and 4 all the rest he was a good player, not one of the bests but surely he did good things.
As GOAT said true that he's very irritating when he loose all that balls trying dribblings (he must realized that this is not his job after all those years) or he mistakes easy passages but it have to be said that considering Trezeguet involution lately he is the only foward we have that put costantly the ball in the net.
I also think that 4 what he does in the field he do not deserve to be the capitain cause he is everything but not a leader but Buffon and Nedved are not in Juve 4 so long and Conte is not anymore in the starting eleven so often... maybe Ciro is the one who deserve it more...
Anycase considering just the leaderschip and not the ages spended in a bianconeri schirt Nedved truly deserve to be the Capitain.
Del Piero is a choker 4 who expet him to make the difference and win matches alone, but if you just not expecting it... he is a good player, not the most important in Juve but neither the one of who to be worry mostly.
I think that what create the missunderstanding was his 1997/98 season in which he made 21 goals and not just that... he made assistits, contrasted and partecipate to the game. That year he was really considered one of the best serie A player and cause he was quite young everybody started saying that he will be the one who could take us to win France WC that he could become the new italian soccer simble, ecc... than when all of those things was disattended all the "public opinion" started schouting vs him everything... and especially cause of WC 98 wheare he became the simble of failure he became ItalY most hated player.
But looking trought DP career overall we may say that he is not a hero neighter a choker but in the middle cause he did one year rocking one year and a half sucking and 4 all the rest he was a good player, not one of the bests but surely he did good things.
As GOAT said true that he's very irritating when he loose all that balls trying dribblings (he must realized that this is not his job after all those years) or he mistakes easy passages but it have to be said that considering Trezeguet involution lately he is the only foward we have that put costantly the ball in the net.
I also think that 4 what he does in the field he do not deserve to be the capitain cause he is everything but not a leader but Buffon and Nedved are not in Juve 4 so long and Conte is not anymore in the starting eleven so often... maybe Ciro is the one who deserve it more...
Anycase considering just the leaderschip and not the ages spended in a bianconeri schirt Nedved truly deserve to be the Capitain.
Well there are a few things which are reallt true about what has been written here and there are some which are just poppycock
First of I read that Serie A is not a place to test you abilities but the Cl is, which to me means that playing Inter or Milan in serieA is not as important as playing say Olympiakos at Cl
I just want to know how many players in Juve's history have scored 100 seria goals for Juve solely
Someone even brought up the fact that in 1 season he only scored penalties which to me , that person is saying is easy forgetting that the so called only competition tha mattersd to that person, we lost to Milan and of cos by the not so important penalties
I have even read that aside from season 97/98, Dp has been rubbish
Considering that last season at one time at the beginning of last season he had scored 9/10 of our goals in firts 5 matyches or thereabout which gaves us victories and against Parma the 1 point for the draw
And at the end he scored 4 goals against Brescia and Roma which turned 2 points into 6 but of cos those are not important
He missed 6 weeks thru injury, 3 more after seriA was more or less won and still managed to score 16 but to some it was a poor season because he had not gone past 5 players to score those goals or that they were penalties
Now 4 the defence
Yes he is definitely a choker as he rarely shows up in big matches, but the examples given have been poor and could be easily defended like Ec 2002 was not choking, was just a bad miss and they were 2 chances not 3 or 4, wc 98 he could easily say he was carrying an injury but my opinon of his being a choker is the in a penalty shoot out , I have only seen Dp volunteer for 1 in his career and that was against Milan, he didn't play against Ajax and Euro200 against the Dutch he didn't take, he might say he was the 5th player but a normal penalty taker should never wait until the last kick cos it might not get that far
And in the Cl last season he definitely underperformed in all the games bar Real Madrid at home.
I think its something in his makeup which makes that h appen as he seems either to be too shy or whatever but he certainly does allow othe rppl to be the head of the team instead of taking up that mantle , first it was Zz and then its now Nedved
Another case in point is just surrendering the coveted numaber 10 to Totti just like that and settling for 7
See some ppl abuse Totti that he is arrogant or whatever but he just has so much confidence in his own ability and wants to be the focus of the sttention all the time and in by so doing dominates games more than the more talented but ultimately weaker in mind Dp
Look at Beckham, he is not the most gifted player in the world but what he does is he makes his personality dominate matches and by so doing he is what he is today
If you watch the adidas ads, u just see 1 shot of Dp and so many of the other stars, all these probably explain why in the big game situations he just fades into the background
He is not the only 1 of cos , because ppl like Bergkamp, almost the whole Arsenal team probably bar Vieira, Fowler, and some othe rplayers do choke in big matches
I also read \nedved played well in all the big games in Cl last season, maybe my eyes were deceiving me but from what I saw , he was crap against Barcelona at home, just average away even if he did redeem himself with the goal, was annonymous against Real Madrid in Spain but managed to be the best player against Milan in the final simply because he was suspended
So whilst you might take pot shots on the captain of your club , remember all the time he has been fully fit, you have been able to celebrate 5 scudettos , 1 cl, 1 intercontinental cup
First of I read that Serie A is not a place to test you abilities but the Cl is, which to me means that playing Inter or Milan in serieA is not as important as playing say Olympiakos at Cl
I just want to know how many players in Juve's history have scored 100 seria goals for Juve solely
Someone even brought up the fact that in 1 season he only scored penalties which to me , that person is saying is easy forgetting that the so called only competition tha mattersd to that person, we lost to Milan and of cos by the not so important penalties
I have even read that aside from season 97/98, Dp has been rubbish
Considering that last season at one time at the beginning of last season he had scored 9/10 of our goals in firts 5 matyches or thereabout which gaves us victories and against Parma the 1 point for the draw
And at the end he scored 4 goals against Brescia and Roma which turned 2 points into 6 but of cos those are not important
He missed 6 weeks thru injury, 3 more after seriA was more or less won and still managed to score 16 but to some it was a poor season because he had not gone past 5 players to score those goals or that they were penalties
Now 4 the defence
Yes he is definitely a choker as he rarely shows up in big matches, but the examples given have been poor and could be easily defended like Ec 2002 was not choking, was just a bad miss and they were 2 chances not 3 or 4, wc 98 he could easily say he was carrying an injury but my opinon of his being a choker is the in a penalty shoot out , I have only seen Dp volunteer for 1 in his career and that was against Milan, he didn't play against Ajax and Euro200 against the Dutch he didn't take, he might say he was the 5th player but a normal penalty taker should never wait until the last kick cos it might not get that far
And in the Cl last season he definitely underperformed in all the games bar Real Madrid at home.
I think its something in his makeup which makes that h appen as he seems either to be too shy or whatever but he certainly does allow othe rppl to be the head of the team instead of taking up that mantle , first it was Zz and then its now Nedved
Another case in point is just surrendering the coveted numaber 10 to Totti just like that and settling for 7
See some ppl abuse Totti that he is arrogant or whatever but he just has so much confidence in his own ability and wants to be the focus of the sttention all the time and in by so doing dominates games more than the more talented but ultimately weaker in mind Dp
Look at Beckham, he is not the most gifted player in the world but what he does is he makes his personality dominate matches and by so doing he is what he is today
If you watch the adidas ads, u just see 1 shot of Dp and so many of the other stars, all these probably explain why in the big game situations he just fades into the background
He is not the only 1 of cos , because ppl like Bergkamp, almost the whole Arsenal team probably bar Vieira, Fowler, and some othe rplayers do choke in big matches
I also read \nedved played well in all the big games in Cl last season, maybe my eyes were deceiving me but from what I saw , he was crap against Barcelona at home, just average away even if he did redeem himself with the goal, was annonymous against Real Madrid in Spain but managed to be the best player against Milan in the final simply because he was suspended
So whilst you might take pot shots on the captain of your club , remember all the time he has been fully fit, you have been able to celebrate 5 scudettos , 1 cl, 1 intercontinental cup
Del Piero "bad luck" was that his posibilities had been so overrated in the past so a lot of peaple expected from him something he could not give and that create a lot of sense of disappointment and even hate around him.
I think he had a great personality to go on... many players (and others sportmens not just soccerplayer) to who it happened to be so overrated by media and than disattended the expectatins just could not stand the pressure and disappeared... Del Piero instead went on and at the end also if he never schowed what he was supposed to be able to do he had a long and good careear.
His good luck instead was to sign that contract in 1998. If Juventus waited one year to do that decision than he wuould be surely dumped. Instead with all that money thay had to spend 4 him 4 so many years they had to give him illimitaded chances and now he ended up becoming again important 4 the team, also if not the most important of course.
I think he had a great personality to go on... many players (and others sportmens not just soccerplayer) to who it happened to be so overrated by media and than disattended the expectatins just could not stand the pressure and disappeared... Del Piero instead went on and at the end also if he never schowed what he was supposed to be able to do he had a long and good careear.
His good luck instead was to sign that contract in 1998. If Juventus waited one year to do that decision than he wuould be surely dumped. Instead with all that money thay had to spend 4 him 4 so many years they had to give him illimitaded chances and now he ended up becoming again important 4 the team, also if not the most important of course.
