Yeah, I’d assume there is some overlap but not very big given the the ages that are most susceptible to it. Although iirc America does have the lowest average age of Covid death in the first world for obvious reasons 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19 Outbreak) (66 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
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Where is the vax mandatory, though?
Sure, some employers have made it mandatory for their employees, but my guess (based on your posting history) would be that you don't mind that. If those employees really don't want to take a vaccine, what's stopping them from getting a different job? One more in line with their personal beliefs. You know, free choice, for both employer & employee.
As for the discriminatory policies towards the reluctant, they obviously make sense from a medical point of view: the virus spreading among the vaccinated leads to a lot less problems than the virus spreading among the unvaccinated.
Plus, it obviously also makes sense for a country to nudge people into getting vaccinated because the math is extremely simple: more people vaccinated = less problems. I think what France decided to do is a bit of an exaggeration, but there's no denying it's efficient.
As a sidenote, not directed at you, I keep being surprised at how many people who can't shut up about "free choice". Only to then bitch about the free choice of others.
Sure, some employers have made it mandatory for their employees, but my guess (based on your posting history) would be that you don't mind that. If those employees really don't want to take a vaccine, what's stopping them from getting a different job? One more in line with their personal beliefs. You know, free choice, for both employer & employee.
As for the discriminatory policies towards the reluctant, they obviously make sense from a medical point of view: the virus spreading among the vaccinated leads to a lot less problems than the virus spreading among the unvaccinated.
Plus, it obviously also makes sense for a country to nudge people into getting vaccinated because the math is extremely simple: more people vaccinated = less problems. I think what France decided to do is a bit of an exaggeration, but there's no denying it's efficient.
As a sidenote, not directed at you, I keep being surprised at how many people who can't shut up about "free choice". Only to then bitch about the free choice of others.
Huh? How is that the point?
Decisions you make lead to consequences. Pretty simple.
If job A requires you to be vaccinated & you don't want to be vaccinated, then maybe job A isn't for you.
Which gives you 2 options: you either look for job B where a vaccine isn't required or you get vaccinated anyway because you think job A is worth getting one for.
Or, in one word, what are your priorities?
Decisions you make lead to consequences. Pretty simple.
If job A requires you to be vaccinated & you don't want to be vaccinated, then maybe job A isn't for you.
Which gives you 2 options: you either look for job B where a vaccine isn't required or you get vaccinated anyway because you think job A is worth getting one for.
Or, in one word, what are your priorities?
I disagree completely. Once again, decisions have consequences. You could look for job C, D, etc
No one forces you to have a job anyway. Sure, maybe you won't survive if you don't have one, but, you know, decisions => consequences. Priorities.
Small note: I think a mandatory vaccine for employees is a good thing in certain sectors (healthcare being the obvious one, maybe some public services). As a general rule for all employees, it's an unnecessary exaggeration imo.
(Also, I don't know anything about safety & health legislation (at workplaces) in other countries & anti-discrimination laws, so I can only comment on the idea of it, rather than the actual possibilities.)
No one forces you to have a job anyway. Sure, maybe you won't survive if you don't have one, but, you know, decisions => consequences. Priorities.
Small note: I think a mandatory vaccine for employees is a good thing in certain sectors (healthcare being the obvious one, maybe some public services). As a general rule for all employees, it's an unnecessary exaggeration imo.
(Also, I don't know anything about safety & health legislation (at workplaces) in other countries & anti-discrimination laws, so I can only comment on the idea of it, rather than the actual possibilities.)
Just like wearing a shirt is a forced choice if you want to be allowed to enter pretty much any store… just like dress codes are mandatory at multiple jobs… just like to work in construction you must have fall safety certifications. Etc etc etc.
You can find that job B, or be unemployed, or get vaccinated if your workplace required it, which is well within their rights.
It’s amazing the amount of “government shouldn’t be allowed to tell businesses what to do” people who now are demanding the government tell businesses they aren’t allowed to require vaccines or even masks
(on a side note only absolute babies refuse to wear masks. I understand some vaccine reluctance given the newness of it, but refusing to wear a mask lol. Lowest of the low)
If I had an immunocompromised family member or someone particularly at risk, I would absolutely make both vaccination and mask-wearing mandatory at our business here. Don’t like it, go somewhere else.
You can find that job B, or be unemployed, or get vaccinated if your workplace required it, which is well within their rights.
It’s amazing the amount of “government shouldn’t be allowed to tell businesses what to do” people who now are demanding the government tell businesses they aren’t allowed to require vaccines or even masks
(on a side note only absolute babies refuse to wear masks. I understand some vaccine reluctance given the newness of it, but refusing to wear a mask lol. Lowest of the low)If I had an immunocompromised family member or someone particularly at risk, I would absolutely make both vaccination and mask-wearing mandatory at our business here. Don’t like it, go somewhere else.
Just like wearing a shirt is a forced choice if you want to be allowed to enter pretty much any store… just like dress codes are mandatory at multiple jobs… just like to work in construction you must have fall safety certifications. Etc etc etc.
You can find that job B, or be unemployed, or get vaccinated if your workplace required it, which is well within their rights.
It’s amazing the amount of “government shouldn’t be allowed to tell businesses what to do” people who now are demanding the government tell businesses they aren’t allowed to require vaccines or even masks
If I had an immunocompromised family member or someone particularly at risk, I would absolutely make both vaccination and mask-wearing mandatory at our business here. Don’t like it, go somewhere else.
You can find that job B, or be unemployed, or get vaccinated if your workplace required it, which is well within their rights.
It’s amazing the amount of “government shouldn’t be allowed to tell businesses what to do” people who now are demanding the government tell businesses they aren’t allowed to require vaccines or even masks
If I had an immunocompromised family member or someone particularly at risk, I would absolutely make both vaccination and mask-wearing mandatory at our business here. Don’t like it, go somewhere else.
Given that Covid has killed 0.6% of people in the entire country of Peru… I don’t think we have any idea of what it’s actual exact IFR is. Somewhere around 0.5% or just above seems likely.
You have no arguments because there are none. If businesses want to require vaccinations and masks, go somewhere else if you don’t like it. It’s that simple.
If you think government can tell businesses that they aren’t allowed to require such things, then by that same argument government if it later decides to tell everyone that vaccines are mandatory, that is a-ok.
Businesses can make the choice to alienate some of their potential employees and customers with vaccine requirements and mask mandates if they want, they shall have to deal with the consequences.
Also, lots of third world countries, for travel there you are required to get shots. Like Yellow Fever ya know.
You have no arguments because there are none. If businesses want to require vaccinations and masks, go somewhere else if you don’t like it. It’s that simple.
If you think government can tell businesses that they aren’t allowed to require such things, then by that same argument government if it later decides to tell everyone that vaccines are mandatory, that is a-ok.
Businesses can make the choice to alienate some of their potential employees and customers with vaccine requirements and mask mandates if they want, they shall have to deal with the consequences.
Also, lots of third world countries, for travel there you are required to get shots. Like Yellow Fever ya know.
You could argue that getting vaccinated & attending a safety training for which you get some sort of certificate are very similar from a work perspective: You do both of them to protect yourself & to protect the people around you.
But, like I said, different countries will have different rules, possibilities, etc.
But, like I said, different countries will have different rules, possibilities, etc.
Isn't Peru a place where that new variant is? Where covid avoids anti bodies and vaccine doesn't really help?
And no, it's not that simply, like I already. It's not simple to find a new job. You make it sound like you flash with your magic wand and it's there. Maybe, maybe in some top tier countries, but not everywhere.
And no, it's not that simply, like I already. It's not simple to find a new job. You make it sound like you flash with your magic wand and it's there. Maybe, maybe in some top tier countries, but not everywhere.
Where is the vax mandatory, though?
Sure, some employers have made it mandatory for their employees, but my guess (based on your posting history) would be that you don't mind that. If those employees really don't want to take a vaccine, what's stopping them from getting a different job? One more in line with their personal beliefs. You know, free choice, for both employer & employee.
As for the discriminatory policies towards the reluctant, they obviously make sense from a medical point of view: the virus spreading among the vaccinated leads to a lot less problems than the virus spreading among the unvaccinated.
Plus, it obviously also makes sense for a country to nudge people into getting vaccinated because the math is extremely simple: more people vaccinated = less problems. I think what France decided to do is a bit of an exaggeration, but there's no denying it's efficient.
As a sidenote, not directed at you, I keep being surprised at how many people who can't shut up about "free choice". Only to then bitch about the free choice of others.
Sure, some employers have made it mandatory for their employees, but my guess (based on your posting history) would be that you don't mind that. If those employees really don't want to take a vaccine, what's stopping them from getting a different job? One more in line with their personal beliefs. You know, free choice, for both employer & employee.
As for the discriminatory policies towards the reluctant, they obviously make sense from a medical point of view: the virus spreading among the vaccinated leads to a lot less problems than the virus spreading among the unvaccinated.
Plus, it obviously also makes sense for a country to nudge people into getting vaccinated because the math is extremely simple: more people vaccinated = less problems. I think what France decided to do is a bit of an exaggeration, but there's no denying it's efficient.
As a sidenote, not directed at you, I keep being surprised at how many people who can't shut up about "free choice". Only to then bitch about the free choice of others.
Sorry to hear about your friend's sister. But isolated helps only so much as it's a longer fuse on the dynamite.
Right. But the risk of people indoors at a restaurant is a concern over transmission, not symptoms. This is why I've long said this idea of a vaccine as a proxy for transmissibility is f'ed up and reflects scientific ignorance and laziness.
Pill culture, man. Just give me the pill. Just give me the jab. And I will wreck my life and expect a quick fix to absolve me of all my sins like an evangelical Christian.
The pill is God's love and my faith.
Same goes with ERs and aspirin or Tylenol... you'll get billed $50+.
Yep. This is how dysfunctional the U.S. sick care system is. People pay for treatments -- without a financial incentive to keep people healthy so that they don't need them. But what to do about all the uninsured?
Some say people don't deserve to be insured. So what happens? They end up coming into the ER with gunshot wounds and nobody throws the body out in the street. But that would be just TOO visually heartless.
In the U.S. typically only 1 in 7 people admitted to the ER have any insurance. That means every insured person has to cover the costs of the 6 uninsured to keep the hospital solvent. It's insane.
For every libertarian that gripes that they don't want to pay for someone else's health care and they don't deserve it, they're clueless to the fact that they already are.
I wouldn't call it vaccine tyranny as much as ignoramuses who confuse vaccines for magic amulets that repel viruses from the pores of their skin.
Keeping the system solvent I see.
In Germany and Austria, they have what they call "3G". It works in the language as a nice shorthand.
In the US they have no equivalent, so it seems everything is cited and reported as a flattening to "vaccine mandate". That just triggers people with totalitarian nightmares. And it continues to conflate how tests are designed for infection but can be easily substituted by vaccines for transmission -- when they can't.
I just tell people, including Floridians, that freedom means the restaurant worker who just took a dump on the job should be able to user their own personal choice about washing their hands before they make your burrito.
For some reason, anti-maskers are less comfortable with that idea of freedom.
Right. But the risk of people indoors at a restaurant is a concern over transmission, not symptoms. This is why I've long said this idea of a vaccine as a proxy for transmissibility is f'ed up and reflects scientific ignorance and laziness.
Pill culture, man. Just give me the pill. Just give me the jab. And I will wreck my life and expect a quick fix to absolve me of all my sins like an evangelical Christian.
The pill is God's love and my faith.
Same goes with ERs and aspirin or Tylenol... you'll get billed $50+.
what the fuck? Is this for real?
Some say people don't deserve to be insured. So what happens? They end up coming into the ER with gunshot wounds and nobody throws the body out in the street. But that would be just TOO visually heartless.
In the U.S. typically only 1 in 7 people admitted to the ER have any insurance. That means every insured person has to cover the costs of the 6 uninsured to keep the hospital solvent. It's insane.
For every libertarian that gripes that they don't want to pay for someone else's health care and they don't deserve it, they're clueless to the fact that they already are.
I wouldn't call it vaccine tyranny as much as ignoramuses who confuse vaccines for magic amulets that repel viruses from the pores of their skin.
Keeping the system solvent I see.
Where is the vax mandatory, though?
Sure, some employers have made it mandatory for their employees, but my guess (based on your posting history) would be that you don't mind that. If those employees really don't want to take a vaccine, what's stopping them from getting a different job? One more in line with their personal beliefs. You know, free choice, for both employer & employee.
As for the discriminatory policies towards the reluctant, they obviously make sense from a medical point of view: the virus spreading among the vaccinated leads to a lot less problems than the virus spreading among the unvaccinated.
Plus, it obviously also makes sense for a country to nudge people into getting vaccinated because the math is extremely simple: more people vaccinated = less problems. I think what France decided to do is a bit of an exaggeration, but there's no denying it's efficient.
As a sidenote, not directed at you, I keep being surprised at how many people who can't shut up about "free choice". Only to then bitch about the free choice of others.
Sure, some employers have made it mandatory for their employees, but my guess (based on your posting history) would be that you don't mind that. If those employees really don't want to take a vaccine, what's stopping them from getting a different job? One more in line with their personal beliefs. You know, free choice, for both employer & employee.
As for the discriminatory policies towards the reluctant, they obviously make sense from a medical point of view: the virus spreading among the vaccinated leads to a lot less problems than the virus spreading among the unvaccinated.
Plus, it obviously also makes sense for a country to nudge people into getting vaccinated because the math is extremely simple: more people vaccinated = less problems. I think what France decided to do is a bit of an exaggeration, but there's no denying it's efficient.
As a sidenote, not directed at you, I keep being surprised at how many people who can't shut up about "free choice". Only to then bitch about the free choice of others.
In the US they have no equivalent, so it seems everything is cited and reported as a flattening to "vaccine mandate". That just triggers people with totalitarian nightmares. And it continues to conflate how tests are designed for infection but can be easily substituted by vaccines for transmission -- when they can't.
Just like wearing a shirt is a forced choice if you want to be allowed to enter pretty much any store… just like dress codes are mandatory at multiple jobs… just like to work in construction you must have fall safety certifications. Etc etc etc.
You can find that job B, or be unemployed, or get vaccinated if your workplace required it, which is well within their rights.
It’s amazing the amount of “government shouldn’t be allowed to tell businesses what to do” people who now are demanding the government tell businesses they aren’t allowed to require vaccines or even masks (on a side note only absolute babies refuse to wear masks. I understand some vaccine reluctance given the newness of it, but refusing to wear a mask lol. Lowest of the low)
If I had an immunocompromised family member or someone particularly at risk, I would absolutely make both vaccination and mask-wearing mandatory at our business here. Don’t like it, go somewhere else.
You can find that job B, or be unemployed, or get vaccinated if your workplace required it, which is well within their rights.
It’s amazing the amount of “government shouldn’t be allowed to tell businesses what to do” people who now are demanding the government tell businesses they aren’t allowed to require vaccines or even masks
(on a side note only absolute babies refuse to wear masks. I understand some vaccine reluctance given the newness of it, but refusing to wear a mask lol. Lowest of the low)If I had an immunocompromised family member or someone particularly at risk, I would absolutely make both vaccination and mask-wearing mandatory at our business here. Don’t like it, go somewhere else.
For some reason, anti-maskers are less comfortable with that idea of freedom.
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