We letting in all vaccinated international travellers starting September 7th. Just in time for the end of summer. Hot tourists coming to a beach near you, soon. 
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Coronavirus (COVID-19 Outbreak) (78 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
- Start date
Nice. Because, why not?
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I thought you said I was the king of selective quoting?
Anyways, it is over here. Everything is open and normal. Mask-wearing is optional. The border is being fully opened over the next 6 weeks.
We have ~80% of the eligible population first dose vaccinated, and 57% fully vaccinated. The vaccines protect people from getting hospitalized or dying from every variant thus far. So until a variant comes along that is filling up hospitals and killing people en masse again, it is for all intents and purposes over.
This may be a seasonal flu deal going forward with possible Covid shots being developed each new season, like with flu, but seeing as amongst fully vaccinated people, the IFR is almost zero, down from 0.3-0.5. I struggle to see why you are predicting doom and gloom. If it does happen, so be it, but right now, the protection from the vaccines looks pretty good. As does the capability to quickly produce new shots to deal with any problematic variants going forward, seeing as we already have the platform vaccine and don’t need to develop anything from scratch.
Pandemics end, ya know. Whether through mutations, burning themselves out in the population, or vaccines… they end. Or else we’d still be dealing with Spanish Influenza, and Small Pox, and the bubonic plague, etc.
Anyways, it is over here. Everything is open and normal. Mask-wearing is optional. The border is being fully opened over the next 6 weeks.
We have ~80% of the eligible population first dose vaccinated, and 57% fully vaccinated. The vaccines protect people from getting hospitalized or dying from every variant thus far. So until a variant comes along that is filling up hospitals and killing people en masse again, it is for all intents and purposes over.
This may be a seasonal flu deal going forward with possible Covid shots being developed each new season, like with flu, but seeing as amongst fully vaccinated people, the IFR is almost zero, down from 0.3-0.5. I struggle to see why you are predicting doom and gloom. If it does happen, so be it, but right now, the protection from the vaccines looks pretty good. As does the capability to quickly produce new shots to deal with any problematic variants going forward, seeing as we already have the platform vaccine and don’t need to develop anything from scratch.
Pandemics end, ya know. Whether through mutations, burning themselves out in the population, or vaccines… they end. Or else we’d still be dealing with Spanish Influenza, and Small Pox, and the bubonic plague, etc.
That's fine but we'll just agree do disagree.
Oh and if they tell people how they will develop a new vaccine each year to stop the new variant, you can bet your ass at least 30-40% of those who took it won't take it next year. So yeah, imo it's not over and it's far from it when it comes to repeat of measures, restrictions etc.
Oh and if they tell people how they will develop a new vaccine each year to stop the new variant, you can bet your ass at least 30-40% of those who took it won't take it next year. So yeah, imo it's not over and it's far from it when it comes to repeat of measures, restrictions etc.
Meh. I mean, no one knows whether mutations will make it more deadly or serious, or will make it easier to pass around but less deadly, which has happened before. You are just assuming worst case scenario for mutations, for vaccine efficacy, for everything really.
If the IFR of Covid in the future drops into a similar range as the seasonal flu, that 0.05-0.1% area, there will be no reason for restrictions and measures going forward. And given that with the vaccines developed the IFR of vaccinated people is significantly lower, I don’t see it being a problem.
If the IFR of Covid in the future drops into a similar range as the seasonal flu, that 0.05-0.1% area, there will be no reason for restrictions and measures going forward. And given that with the vaccines developed the IFR of vaccinated people is significantly lower, I don’t see it being a problem.
Well, best scenario is Covid is gone entirely, and I think it’s here to stay, but I also think that we can effectively deal with it now. And I also don’t consider mask-mandates a restriction worth mentioning, so if at times we have to wear masks going forward, that’s not really a big deal. I just assume COVID will go the way of seasonal flu…
the biggest issue for mutations is the wildfire spread through third world countries without much vaccination and no effective measures.
like you say, we’ll see. I hope I’m right though
This is different from making the virus disappear.
The idea was always to have a vaccine like you would against the flu. The virus will mutate and return seasonally, but the effects of the virus gradually become less and less. The vaccine is designed to cope with the virus until we build our own immune response.
The idea was always to have a vaccine like you would against the flu. The virus will mutate and return seasonally, but the effects of the virus gradually become less and less. The vaccine is designed to cope with the virus until we build our own immune response.
Nobody shortcut FDA approval protocols for vaccines in the US, so I am not sure what you're pointing at.
And trusting the manufacturer to provide the data is a massive conflict of interest. That's the cigarette company strategy. People were dead generations before the lawsuits could catch up.
There is a lot of CYA. There are people taking credit for random success, and there are people getting the full blame for random failure.
While I agree with letting go of this idea of predictable control (the people who complain that UK Freedom Day got pushed back being a perfect example), I don't think the answer is throwing your hands in the air and presuming people and the market will solve everything themselves. Public health is a different beast and works collectively -- and typically fails individually with bad outcomes for more people.
There are some practices and adoptions that do save lives -- while also having harmful side effects. But that's pretty much true with any intervention, so the aim needs to be choosing some goods over some traded off evils for a net benefit if possible. Systemic challenges usually become a manner of harm displacement. You take the tourniquet off the neck in favor of putting it around the ankle.
Is it though? In the case of flip-flops, the owner is saying no service without proper footwear ... and it's your choice what you want to do with your feet. But these are my rules.
I don't know about instantly disappear, but they thought the impacts would be negligible and they could live on pretending like it never happened.
People also forget that 8% of human DNA is of viral origin. Meaning: we have more genetically in common with viruses than we are genetically different from chimpanzees. In fact, humans could not be the humans we know today without the co-existence of viruses.
And trusting the manufacturer to provide the data is a massive conflict of interest. That's the cigarette company strategy. People were dead generations before the lawsuits could catch up.
There is a lot of CYA. There are people taking credit for random success, and there are people getting the full blame for random failure.
While I agree with letting go of this idea of predictable control (the people who complain that UK Freedom Day got pushed back being a perfect example), I don't think the answer is throwing your hands in the air and presuming people and the market will solve everything themselves. Public health is a different beast and works collectively -- and typically fails individually with bad outcomes for more people.
There are some practices and adoptions that do save lives -- while also having harmful side effects. But that's pretty much true with any intervention, so the aim needs to be choosing some goods over some traded off evils for a net benefit if possible. Systemic challenges usually become a manner of harm displacement. You take the tourniquet off the neck in favor of putting it around the ankle.
Is it though? In the case of flip-flops, the owner is saying no service without proper footwear ... and it's your choice what you want to do with your feet. But these are my rules.
I don't know about instantly disappear, but they thought the impacts would be negligible and they could live on pretending like it never happened.
People also forget that 8% of human DNA is of viral origin. Meaning: we have more genetically in common with viruses than we are genetically different from chimpanzees. In fact, humans could not be the humans we know today without the co-existence of viruses.
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There is no FDA approval. And as i pointed out a suspension of liability claims till further notice:
https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=848329
And my point is the measures to save lives in place are not worth it. Imo It is not worth it to maybe save one life at the expense of ruining the lives of 1000s.
https://www.hsdl.org/?abstract&did=848329
And my point is the measures to save lives in place are not worth it. Imo It is not worth it to maybe save one life at the expense of ruining the lives of 1000s.
Yeah, correct. The FDA pulled a EUA in the U.S.
But I'm still not sure on your math here. It is not worth it to save one life ruining the lives of thousands. But we know 4M+ have died of it and some 190M to face symptoms without anything. Are you suggesting 4B lives would be ruined?
I mean, that kind of efficacy would pretty much have to be military-level toxic deliberate though, don't you think?
But I'm still not sure on your math here. It is not worth it to save one life ruining the lives of thousands. But we know 4M+ have died of it and some 190M to face symptoms without anything. Are you suggesting 4B lives would be ruined?
I mean, that kind of efficacy would pretty much have to be military-level toxic deliberate though, don't you think?
I doubt any action would have made a dent in the 4 million. A lot of those deaths were the artificially kept alive thanks to excess of resources in places like america where 400 lbs specimens don't even raise an eyebrow anymore, that's why you see much less effect in places where said people would have been dead long ago. I applaud the spirit behind the sanctity of life, but as with every policy the most important question always is: at what price? So the math would have been something like if we dont do anything 4.1 will die, if we do 4 will die but in the process we will create financial collapse of say at least a billion people, is it worth it? Obviously this is just me pulling numbers out of my ass, but no one has numbers on the effects and to me the lack of data alone is cause for pause before any rash action.
And yes, i do believe there's a seismic shift in resources thanks to covid, the past year has seen a power reshuffling i never witnessed before. When the dust settles i suspect it would be dubbed the heist of history.
And yes, i do believe there's a seismic shift in resources thanks to covid, the past year has seen a power reshuffling i never witnessed before. When the dust settles i suspect it would be dubbed the heist of history.
I am not an epidemiologist but what we see now is that 97% of COVID patients in hospitals are the unvaccinated ones.
As far as long term side effects related to the vaccine are concerned, keep in mind that this is a mRNA vaccine and doesn’t really affect the DNA. I’m not saying that there is no chance of bad side effects down the road, but you have to take chances in order to win.
Everyone has their justifications for and against the vaccine. A cookie cutter approach is usually not appropriate. As a front line worker, I had my whole family vaccinated because there is no telling what bugs I bring back home with me. I have a lot of reservations about the usage in kids but I also don’t want to spend my life regretting my decision not to vaccinate them should something happen to them because of COVID.
I’ve lost colleagues with COVID. Not nice.
As far as long term side effects related to the vaccine are concerned, keep in mind that this is a mRNA vaccine and doesn’t really affect the DNA. I’m not saying that there is no chance of bad side effects down the road, but you have to take chances in order to win.
Everyone has their justifications for and against the vaccine. A cookie cutter approach is usually not appropriate. As a front line worker, I had my whole family vaccinated because there is no telling what bugs I bring back home with me. I have a lot of reservations about the usage in kids but I also don’t want to spend my life regretting my decision not to vaccinate them should something happen to them because of COVID.
I’ve lost colleagues with COVID. Not nice.
Meanwhile in India... govt spewing lies in Parliament.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/no-...-oxygen-shortage-centre-blames-states-2490933
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/no-...-oxygen-shortage-centre-blames-states-2490933