[CL] Juventus vs Arsenal (10 Viewers)

[HelterSkelter]

when the television camers showed around the stadium before the match kicked off,it was bloody amazing.there were fans,there was energy,there was sound and there was a sense of hope.but as the much started,the signs were obvious.we had no imagination on the pitch.the man who held the key ie Pavel Nedved was hardly getting the ball,and even when he was,he was ineffective.the little hope that existed before the match started began to seep away as arsenal put one foot in the semifinals.

our biggest weakness was exposed in this match ie the lack of a creative midfielder.and it is this very weakness which did not make me too happy when we signed patrick viera.we desperatley needed a creative midfielder such as pizzaro or aimar,and what we got was a 29 year old who was past his best,or atleast this is what his first season at turin suggests.

emerson and viera cannot work together.one of them has to be sold imo.it is obvious that they havent had the same impact together that everyone thought they would.

i dont know if zlatan needs to shown the door or not,but the decision to not sign antonio cassano is backfiring now.if we can swap cassano and zlatan along with some cash,then it would a nice deal imo.

 

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[JCK]

hmm true, but the chances of him being sacked are slimmer.. so i would go for the quick option.. although im not so sure how that may shape up in the long run.

How I wish the Triade didn't continue

 

[PhRoZeN]

How I wish the Triade didn't continue

No doubt since Agnelli passed away, they havent been the same...

 

[JCK]

emerson and viera cannot work together.one of them has to be sold imo.it is obvious that they havent had the same impact together that everyone thought they would.

A friend of mine always tells me how great Emerson and Vieira and how similar they are. He also adds that this is why we have this problem because a 4-4-2 midfield should offer dimension even with its flattness. He says that this dimension is missing because two identical players are playing aside thus making the midfield too much one dimensional and thus predictable.

 

[PhRoZeN]

emerson and viera cannot work together.one of them has to be sold imo.it is obvious that they havent had the same impact together that everyone thought they would.

I would sell emerson, Its patricks first season, he should stay for another.

 

[Maher]

We always go out because juve style of play is very slow while other teams outplay us especially EPL teams , milan is the only italian team with fast style of play

 

[PhRoZeN]

A friend of mine always tells me how great Emerson and Vieira and how similar they are. He also adds that this is why we have this problem because a 4-4-2 midfield should offer dimension even with its flattness. He says that this dimension is missing because two identical players are playing aside thus making the midfield too much one dimensional and thus predictable.

Your friends right

 

[PhRoZeN]

We always go out because juve style of play is very slow while other teams outplay us especially EPL teams , milan is the only italian team with fast style of play

We may just find out that fiorentina are too this weekend.. infact many are thats the sad thing. Although this aint me sticking up for the current side, one things for sure we are dead tired as the reason of being slow.. no guessing whose to blame there..

 

[giovanotti]

I think that we have a deeper problem,look at this way:

-I don't blame Capello for using 4-4-2 tactics,that's his choice and not ours,he is a coach and every single guy from the forum dreams to meet any Juve player,so that shows how competetent we are to talk about the tactiscs.

-But on the other hand,Capello made some stupid and bad atmosphere in the team which is much better than those Arsenal kids,honestly.He stated many times that he want to coach some english teams,that he won't stay with Juve.FFS he stated that Juve is the last team he would coach before he became our coach.

Capello plays Ibrahimovic all the way(he really likes that guy) and Del Piero who is much better than Ibrahimovic was sitting at the bench.Than came up the first media stories about Del Piero leaving and some ibrakadabra shits!Game after game the same story was going on.And not to mention Treze's statement that Ibrahimovic's partnership fits him.
Than Capello starts to talk about his wish to coach English NT,and that story was before every our important game.

Nedved got his first red card against Roma,than last night again,Zebina got it against Arsenal and camoranesi too,and we all know the situation when Capello put Camoranesi and than brought him away just after a few minutes spent in the game.
Many silly moments and situations just broke the moral of the team which really looked detterrent at the start of the season.

 

[PhRoZeN]

-But on the other hand,Capello made some stupid and bad atmosphere in the team which is much better than those Arsenal kids,honestly.He stated many times that he want to coach some english teams,that he won't stay with Juve.FFS he stated that Juve is the last team he would coach before he became our coach.

Capello starts to talk about his wish to coach English NT,and that story was before every our important game.

Some good points above, I totally forgot about this situation regarding him looking at other jobs.

 

[Intro]

A friend of mine always tells me how great Emerson and Vieira and how similar they are. He also adds that this is why we have this problem because a 4-4-2 midfield should offer dimension even with its flattness. He says that this dimension is missing because two identical players are playing aside thus making the midfield too much one dimensional and thus predictable.

Not entirely true. The Emerson-Vieira double-pivot is pretty conservative and I'm not a fan of that system. Yet Wenger and his Arsenal team always played that way until he sold Vieira. In the 'Invicibles' year they too played the 'flat' 4-4-2 with a Silva-Vieira and played better football in terms of attack than they do now. How ironic Arsenal are more conservative now in their approach when in theory they have one less defensive player in their side?

As for the system Nedved and Camoranesi (or Mutu when he plays) are just as much at fault. Barcelona have used Edmilson-Motta in recent weeks and still looked fairly attacking. Saying all that Vieira as I told you in the summer was a bad signing for Juve and great sale for Arsenal in the long-term. But even I didn't expect the results to show this quickly.

 

[JCK]

Not entirely true. The Emerson-Vieira double-pivot is pretty conservative and I'm not a fan of that system. Yet Wenger and his Arsenal team always played that way until he sold Vieira. In the 'Invicibles' year they too played the 'flat' 4-4-2 with a Silva-Vieira and played better football in terms of attack than they do now. How ironic Arsenal are more conservative now in their approach when in theory they have one less defensive player in their side?

As for the system Nedved and Camoranesi (or Mutu when he plays) are just as much at fault. Barcelona have used Edmilson-Motta in recent weeks and still looked fairly attacking. Saying all that Vieira as I told you in the summer was a bad signing for Juve and great sale for Arsenal in the long-term. But even I didn't expect the results to show this quickly.

That's not the problem with playing a double pivot. The problem he said is that they are identical players. Vieira and Silva are not identical players.

 

[giovanotti]

Some good points above, I totally forgot about this situation regarding him looking at other jobs.

Yes and that could really flump the moral of the team.

 

[PhRoZeN]

Not entirely true. The Emerson-Vieira double-pivot is pretty conservative and I'm not a fan of that system. Yet Wenger and his Arsenal team always played that way until he sold Vieira. In the 'Invicibles' year they too played the 'flat' 4-4-2 with a Silva-Vieira and played better football in terms of attack than they do now. How ironic Arsenal are more conservative now in their approach when in theory they have one less defensive player in their side?

Lets not forget that both gilberto and viera were very much mobile then. Also they had some great wingers in the form of pires as well as a box to box player in the name of ljungberg. TBH you cant forget that they have a very fast forward too unlike our lineup. Yes if that is to work.. which is very unlikely then you need to ensure that the whole team can revolve around it. Both gilberto helped out up front as well as back. Nowadays you may end up seeing that very less frequently with us, emerson and viera just dont have enough motivation in going up. Bad partnership because neither complements each other unlike the days of arsenal. Also i would like to add that that partnership remained strong in the EPL but there remained some flaws in their CL campaign. Which is exactly what is happening to us.. having two defensive midfielders in CL just dont work. Barca is a completely different matter simply because they play a different formation with their supposed defensive midfielders and TBH they aint even that much defensive, also they have magical players.

 

[giovanotti]

Imagine jsut how Vieira feels these days....he left Arsenal to win the C.L. with us.....obviously the wrong esteem.

 

[PhRoZeN]

Imagine jsut how Vieira feels these days....he left Arsenal to win the C.L. with us.....obviously the wrong esteem.

Yep its a similar feeling to what Owen must have felt when he saw his liverpool side win last years CL. Only difference being Owen didnt exactly play against his former team whilst Viera did and oh yeah Arsenal aint won the CL just yet..

 

[Intro]

That's not the problem with playing a double pivot. The problem he said is that they are identical players. Vieira and Silva are not identical players.

I think they are - the minor difference you may point to I think are irrelevant. Arsenal thought they could free Vieira into an attacking role but at this stage of his career those hopes should be forgotten. I think Emerson-Vieira should work given the right framework which wasn't there this season. I could never understand the almost embarrassment and hastiness in which Juventus dismissed speculation of Pires also coming when Vieira did. I didn't understand then strengthening the middle of the park when the wings were so bare.

But Pires, Emerson, Vieira and Nedved are obviously in the Autumn of their careers. It is this reason Emerson-Vieira should be split up this summer. If Capello failed to make it work this season there is little point in fixing the problems as it was only likely to provide short-term success. I wrote before the first match at Highbury about the Fabregas/Vieira tactical switch from Wenger and how I expected Vieira to win this battle but ultimately Wenger with Fabregas to win the war. It is that revolution and re-think of ideas that needs to be taken at Juve. Is Capello that man?

Or does that revolution need to take place. When Milan exit Europe this season with the title and Juve are shouting the number 29 will all be forgotten as last summer? I think so. Accept that Capello is giving you titles this way - OK at this time of the year you feel bad, very bad. But you are not alone Chelsea, Bayern, Juve and Lyon all have this in common now - resignation that they are not good enough. Together they are 4 of Europes 'Fab Five' in being clear title winners for the second year running. Big domination but at a price.

Also please tell me this crazy idea I here of everyone here asking for Riquelme? Do they understand that firstly, he would never come? And secondly, to be a success the whole structure of the team would need to be changed as it is know that the Argentine has to run the WHOLE midfield to be successful.

 

[JCK]

But Pires, Emerson, Vieira and Nedved are obviously in the Autumn of their careers. It is this reason Emerson-Vieira should be split up this summer. If Capello failed to make it work this season there is little point in fixing the problems as it was only likely to provide short-term success. I wrote before the first match at Highbury about the Fabregas/Vieira tactical switch from Wenger and how I expected Vieira to win this battle but ultimately Wenger with Fabregas to win the war. It is that revolution and re-think of ideas that needs to be taken at Juve. Is Capello that man?

No. His methods are not working anymore, they might be working in Italy, but this approach does not work in Europe.

Or does that revolution need to take place. When Milan exit Europe this season with the title and Juve are shouting the number 29 will all be forgotten as last summer? I think so. Accept that Capello is giving you titles this way - OK at this time of the year you feel bad, very bad. But you are not alone Chelsea, Bayern, Juve and Lyon all have this in common now - resignation that they are not good enough. Together they are 4 of Europes 'Fab Five' in being clear title winners for the second year running. Big domination but at a price.

I am afriad you are right, many here who demand Capello's head will cheer and thank him for bringing the Scudetto.

Also please tell me this crazy idea I here of everyone here asking for Riquelme? Do they understand that firstly, he would never come? And secondly, to be a success the whole structure of the team would need to be changed as it is know that the Argentine has to run the WHOLE midfield to be successful.

I agree with you here, bringing a player like Riquelme means changing at least three other players so his game would work.

 

[Intro]

Barca is a completely different matter simply because they play a different formation with their supposed defensive midfielders and TBH they aint even that much defensive, also they have magical players.

Not really. The way I see it is most teams have between 4-5 attacking players withing a team. Most have 4; Milan use 5 and Barca do when they don't play with a double-pivot. So Vieira-Emerson taking the criticism is only fair in condemning their defensive performances I think. To expect more is wrong and instead the 4 attackers; Nedved, Camoranesi, Zlatan and Trez are the ones responsible for making the attack. It is the quality of those four that I consider Juve one of the LEAST dynamic of attackers in Europe.

Juventus are managed the typical 'old-school' Italian way where so much is about ego. Vieira was seen as a great signing only really in Italy as some egotistical thought they were the ones not Real Madrid to snare him from Arsenal. Where in fact there is what little value-for-money in the purchase or even justifiable percentage increase in performance given the outlay. Then secondly, the top-heavy load of strikers; which is bizaare. Signing Mutu for this reason was strange and of course Capello's answer to this one a pathetic one - but what else could he do? Milan too had this problem with Vieri earlier - as every top-club needs a hierarchy of strikers not an even spread.

 

[JCK]

But Mutu never played upfront.