[CL] JUVENTUS 1-3 Barcelona (June 6th, 2015) (20 Viewers)

[Juventino[RUS]]

Referee's are always against us anywa

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I can see the point of striking while the fear is in their hearts. It's a gamble. But we lost that gamble, clearly.



You have to understand that when I read posts that blame referee transgressions for failures like this, the hairs go up on the back of my neck. Because they raise the ghosts of every romanista earlier this season that provoked a laughably pathetic GdS headline of "Campionato falsato!"

I am probably weird that way in I don't subscribe to the belief that "if only the referee called/didn't call a penalty at minute X in the match" the result would follow an entirely different predetermined and inevitable outcome and destiny. Great teams find ways to overcome bad calls, bad luck, bad bounces. The weak ones put all the responsibility on those moments and wash their hands of any potential outcome possible afterwards.

No, i lost count how many times referees helped barcelona to win the matches in the CL, why they need it if they are so superpowerful?

 

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[Van Helsing]

absolutely it was a penalty but you know this is uefalona and Çakır is a controversial referee for some matches!

 

[swag]

Like Nzo, I thought it was 50/50. But some would say the same of Neymar's disallowed handball.

Even if we had a penalty awarded, there's no guarantee we'd have made it. And there's no guarantee that a Barca 2-1 down with those offensive weapons wouldn't have found a way to overwhelm us anyway by FT. Especially with how we had been finishing all night.

 

[sallyinzaghi]

Your point was we lost because we thought Barca was so much better than us. My point is that we lost the match exactly when we got a little overconfident.

I see your point. Perhaps it would've gone differently if we stayed back and left it at 1-1. But in a way it was touching to see that the team believed in themselves and took our their game to Barca. We lost to a stronger team although we should take heart knowing that the gap isn't too big, and honestly I think it is all only due to the inexperience of the team to play at this level (I say team because we obviously have players who are experienced, but it wasn't enough to carry everyone.)

If anything, I think this will only motivate our players more. We always lacked self belief in EUrope, I think this final should finally solve that problem, now we need to dominate again in 2016.

 

[Hængebøffer]

Am I the only one who feels that the penal on Pogba is a 50/50 call? Whatever he did the team left unfavored by his call would have legitimate reasons for being upset.

With the calls Barca got - no.

 

[swag]

I see your point. Perhaps it would've gone differently if we stayed back and left it at 1-1. But in a way it was touching to see that the team believed in themselves and took our their game to Barca. We lost to a stronger team although we should take heart knowing that the gap isn't too big, and honestly I think it is all only due to the inexperience of the team to play at this level (I say team because we obviously have players who are experienced, but it wasn't enough to carry everyone.)

If anything, I think this will only motivate our players more. We always lacked self belief in EUrope, I think this final should finally solve that problem, now we need to dominate again in 2016.

TBH, either choice was a gamble: stay balanced and seek less risky opportunities for a go-ahead later in the match (potentially to have Gigi miss a brilliant save as he'd made in the first half) or to try to swing the momentum and pressure Barca.

It was a clear change of tactics. We lost on that gamble because Barca proved more capable with the adjusted tactics than we were. But I do have to hand it to the squad for going balls out.

Not to slag Conte, but I think it's been that lack of balls-out risk taking that got us eliminated early from recent CLs. So we died trying and taking a gamble that we could boss them better than their own game. It didn't work, but it was sure awesome of us not to curl up and take it.

 

[samfisher5]

How is it that Barca are always involved in ref scandals in big CL matches?

If they are so good, why do they need the refs to win? They were very medicore last night, we were way below our standard and we still could ahve won it. People talk that Barca completely outplayed us, well they obviously watched another match, as we had plenty of chances as well. And a clear penalty!

 

[Post Ironic]

Like Nzo, I thought it was 50/50. But some would say the same of Neymar's disallowed handball.
.

What? Not even in the same realm. Neymar's header was actually going wide if it doesn't deflect off his hand. He headed it to the right, and his right hand stopped it from following that trajectory and caused it to barely slip inside the post. It was clearly going well wide without his hand. That's not a 50/50. That a 100% handball. Unintentional, so no yellow card, but you can't score with your hand.

As I have said many times. It's not just about the 50/50 penalty. I'd say more or less 75/25, but regardless, even at 50/50, that completely ignores that Pogba was fouled 3 times and not one foul was given. I can see not wanting to change the match by awarding a somewhat debatable penalty... I get that. I even support it to some extent. But to allow the foul that gave Barca possession and started their counter, the type of foul he'd been awarding to Barca players all night is absurd. And then to allow that foul against Pogba on the edge of the area in the first half that would have been prime free kick territory for Pirlo, the type of spot he's almost 50/50 to score from, is also absurd. That was a clear and obvious trip on Pogba, and that was the type of free kick Allegri was hoping for in starting Pirlo.

It's the fact that he awarded free kicks for every tiny bit of contact against Barca players, but somehow Pogba couldn't buy a free kick that bothers me.

Great teams find ways to overcome bad calls, bad luck, bad bounces. The weak ones put all the responsibility on those moments and wash their hands of any potential outcome possible afterwards.

Even if we had a penalty awarded, there's no guarantee we'd have made it. And there's no guarantee that a Barca 2-1 down with those offensive weapons wouldn't have found a way to overwhelm us anyway by FT. Especially with how we had been finishing all night

And this is where I agree with you 100%. As a fan, it's pretty much irrelevant if I make a big deal out of this. Who cares. I'll be choked about it for a day or two. Just as I was choked about the offside goal by Madrid in 97 for a day or two. And I'll complain a bit about it.

However, I'm glad our team has hardly mentioned it, and has given credit to Barcelona for being the better team on the day. They know, as do we all, that they had their chances and it wasn't the referee that caused Tevez, Vidal, Pogba all to shoot directly at the keeper from the edge of the box multiple times; that it wasn't the referee that caused Pogba to send his free header over a wide open net; that it wasn't the referee that caused Buffon to punch that rebound straight out for a tap-in, and Evra to fail to beat Suarez to the ball to clear the rebound; they know it wasn't the referee that caused Vidal to play far too recklessly for the first 20 minutes of the match. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Barcelona was the superior team. They won. I just would have preferred to see how the game would have ended up without 2-3 poor mistakes from the referee at a crucial point in the match. Even if we still lost. That's the gist of it.

 

[samfisher5]

We can scapegoat Pirlo playing, we can scapegoat the ref all we want. It doesn't change the outcome. It doesn't change what was probably the correct outcome in the better team winning. It just makes us look whiny and pathetic like a bunch of fans on the Inter forums who cannot graciously accept a defeat without coming up with a litany of excuses of things to blame but ourselves.

You are obviously stupid by nature!

Can't you understand that the ref didn;t give us a CLEAR penalty in a CL FINAL when the score was 1-1 and we were actually dominating the game? We score from it and then we have 25 minutes to defend our lead. Most probably we would ahve repeated our performance in Madrid and won the game. Remember in Madrid we were outplayed in the 1st half, but then we managed to score and the game changed compeltely. Same thing here.

Just beacause Barca had opportunities that they didn;t score, deosn;t mean they 'deserved' to win. By your logic, we should not have played the match, because on paper they are the better team!

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Like Nzo, I thought it was 50/50. But some would say the same of Neymar's disallowed handball.

Even if we had a penalty awarded, there's no guarantee we'd have made it. And there's no guarantee that a Barca 2-1 down with those offensive weapons wouldn't have found a way to overwhelm us anyway by FT. Especially with how we had been finishing all night.

WAT ? some people say that it wasn't handball in the neymar's case? so, according to their logic, you can shoot the ball in urs or ur teammate hand and if ball will go inside of the net this goal will count?

 

[swag]

You are obviously stupid by nature!

Can't you understand that the ref didn;t give us a CLEAR penalty in a CL FINAL when the score was 1-1 and we were actually dominating the game? We score from it and then we have 25 minutes to defend our lead. Most probably we would ahve repeated our performance in Madrid and won the game. Remember in Madrid we were outplayed in the 1st half, but then we managed to score and the game changed compeltely. Same thing here.

Just beacause Barca had opportunities that they didn;t score, deosn;t mean they 'deserved' to win. By your logic, we should not have played the match, because on paper they are the better team!

This subscribes to that "event x changes, an entirely different and inevitable future fate follows" fallacy that I mentioned above.

We took a tactical gamble at 1-1 and lost. Barca played the different tactics better than we could. I can accept that, hence for me I felt the result was fair and earned.

 

[samfisher5]

Barca weren;t tactically well prepared for the game, too! So what's your point?

 

[Post Ironic]

To be fair, it's also a bit of a logical fallacy to say that if Juventus went up 2-1 with 25 minutes left Barca would still have won. We have absolutely no idea what would have happened in this case... Hence the anger over the perceived mistake.

Juventus up 2-1 with 25 minutes left means a defensive shell, and no counterattacking opportunities for Barca. In this case it's entirely unknown how things would have gone.

 

[lgorTudor]

Knowing that without a ref mistake we would have been up 2-1 in a CL final against the most hyped team in the history of football puts a knife through my heart

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Has Cronios stopped by to make a comment yet?

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Btw way since we lost this match should we ban Hustini ?

@Hustini present your defense

 

[Zacheryah]

What? Not even in the same realm. Neymar's header was actually going wide if it doesn't deflect off his hand. He headed it to the right, and his right hand stopped it from following that trajectory and caused it to barely slip inside the post. It was clearly going well wide without his hand. That's not a 50/50. That a 100% handball. Unintentional, so no yellow card, but you can't score with your hand.

As I have said many times. It's not just about the 50/50 penalty. I'd say more or less 75/25, but regardless, even at 50/50, that completely ignores that Pogba was fouled 3 times and not one foul was given. I can see not wanting to change the match by awarding a somewhat debatable penalty... I get that. I even support it to some extent. But to allow the foul that gave Barca possession and started their counter, the type of foul he'd been awarding to Barca players all night is absurd. And then to allow that foul against Pogba on the edge of the area in the first half that would have been prime free kick territory for Pirlo, the type of spot he's almost 50/50 to score from, is also absurd. That was a clear and obvious trip on Pogba, and that was the type of free kick Allegri was hoping for in starting Pirlo.

It's the fact that he awarded free kicks for every tiny bit of contact against Barca players, but somehow Pogba couldn't buy a free kick that bothers me.





And this is where I agree with you 100%. As a fan, it's pretty much irrelevant if I make a big deal out of this. Who cares. I'll be choked about it for a day or two. Just as I was choked about the offside goal by Madrid in 97 for a day or two. And I'll complain a bit about it.

However, I'm glad our team has hardly mentioned it, and has given credit to Barcelona for being the better team on the day. They know, as do we all, that they had their chances and it wasn't the referee that caused Tevez, Vidal, Pogba all to shoot directly at the keeper from the edge of the box multiple times; that it wasn't the referee that caused Pogba to send his free header over a wide open net; that it wasn't the referee that caused Buffon to punch that rebound straight out for a tap-in, and Evra to fail to beat Suarez to the ball to clear the rebound; they know it wasn't the referee that caused Vidal to play far too recklessly for the first 20 minutes of the match. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Barcelona was the superior team. They won. I just would have preferred to see how the game would have ended up without 2-3 poor mistakes from the referee at a crucial point in the match. Even if we still lost. That's the gist of it.

pretty much this

 

[Mister]

What? Not even in the same realm. Neymar's header was actually going wide if it doesn't deflect off his hand. He headed it to the right, and his right hand stopped it from following that trajectory and caused it to barely slip inside the post. It was clearly going well wide without his hand. That's not a 50/50. That a 100% handball. Unintentional, so no yellow card, but you can't score with your hand.

As per fifa rules neymar's goal was legit. The handball did change the flight of the ball but it wasn't deliberate.

 

[Juventus 32]

Federica Nargi :heart2: 0:22 Zizu 1:09
http://www.vecchiasignora.com/topic...tifare-juve-e-furino-seduto-accanto-a-davids/

 

[Post Ironic]

As per fifa rules neymar's goal was legit. The handball did change the flight of the ball but it wasn't deliberate.

Sorry, but a ball put into the net with a hand regardless of intention will never be allowed if the ref sees it. It never has been and never will be allowed. Hence the reason Neymar tried to claim to the ref that the ball hit his shoulder and not his hand.

The rule states what it does, but Neymar's hand was in the air, out from his body, in direct path of the ball. his hand was in a position to cause a hand ball.

The vast majority of handball penalties aren't intentional or deliberate. A player gets unlucky with having their arm extended. It's almost never that they intentionally move it toward the ball.

So either that rule you posted is incomplete or the referees never actually follow it, because their are very very few actually deliberate handballs

And Neymar's handball goal completely fits into the arm extended from the body, changing the flight of the ball to cause it to score. That's always been whistled and always will be.