Board & Management (130 Viewers)

[Salvo]

From what I understand their reasons are weak as was to be expected
My question is can we sue if they overturn it. They also said that Exor was complicit. That was a risky move from the figc

 

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[juve123]

the invoice for the purchase of Aké: address (wrong) and player details (wrong) have been changed in pen. NOT the price! CAF argues that it was a way to avoid the exchange with Tongya, not the purchase. But exchanges are LEGAL. (@MarcelloChirico)

 

[Buck Fuddy]

obviously not, and of course i never said this. point is that you can't never sell pjanic for 60m without taking an expensive counterparty yourself

what is illegal is the overvaluation of your own assets. that applies to all industries, be it manufacturing, service, chemical industry, or sports. as a bicycle rental service you can buy 30 bikes of $500 each, but you can't account them as $5000 bikes individually, cause that would make your business look like more valuable. same applies for sports.

straight out sales: the consideration is money. you found a dumb buyer, good for you. chelsea were stupid enough to overpay for both lukaku and casadei, good for inda. what's pedri's release clause? 1bn? not that it would happen, but let's suppose it does. if chelsea pay that one too, will the case get investigated? barcelona won't, chelsea might break ffp with a transfer like that. but as far as plusvalenza goes, if you receive cash, nothing to see here.

swaps: you can inflate the value of your assets, see pjanic-arthur swap, or the four fuckers included in the osimhen deal. still can't be labeled illegal by any jury (since there's no objective price list for footballers), but can be easily attacked. also it's dumb to overcharge your budget with amortization even if it's a non cash expense.

bottom line is that overvalued swaps would be illegal if there was an objective way to value a player. it's illegal for businesses to either under- or overvalue assets. i worked in a few similar cases locally with industrial companies and it can get nasty on court. but thing is that most mechanical parts, raw materials, services (etc) have more or less objective market prices. footballers don't.

This is where it gets tricky. Services rendered vs prices of football players being a pretty good example. At the very least, it's up for debate.

Denial in this fashion:

Juventus is an over 100 year old institution whose journey is irrevocably intertwined with the Italian nation. The tradition and integrity of this club are the envy of all Italy. This very envy turned villainous, and already tried and failed to tarnish the immaculate pedigree of Juventus in the ignominious masquerade that was Calciopoli, where the club was fully exonerated in both the court of law and on the pitch with a record 9 consecutive scudetti. As we stand once again to face another attack from the wretched envious curmudgeons in FIGC, we would like to let all our adversaries know that unlike before, this time we shall explore all the ways to rain legal brimstone and fire on all those who try to calumniate and destroy our name and reputation. This promise is as true and unambiguous as the black and white on our storied jersey. No quarter.

Did I miss something?

Fictitious capital gains can be made as long as you don't talk about them on the phone and don't write them on slips of paper, which will then become black books in the legal narrative. This is, in a nutshell, the substance of the motivations (@guido_vaciago)

Kangaroo court judiciary.

Makes sense. You're basically admitting you're lying/making stuff up.

 

[Rockets]

the invoice for the purchase of Aké: address (wrong) and player details (wrong) have been changed in pen. NOT the price! CAF argues that it was a way to avoid the exchange with Tongya, not the purchase. But exchanges are LEGAL. (@MarcelloChirico)

 

[Akshen]

From what I understand their reasons are weak as was to be expected
My question is can we sue if they overturn it. They also said that Exor was complicit. That was a risky move from the figc

The problem is we won't argue with their reasons, we have to prove they didn't keep all the procedures. Appeal can't argue with reasons which is stupid.

 

[Strickland]

I agree with Pedro - it seems obvious Juventus did inflate the values, the books were not representative and none of us are experts in Italian law to comment whether they have proved it accordingly or not, at least they have given a lengthy basis for it. Agnelli, Tici, Nedved etc did and sanctioned this and they are mf'ing morons. Imo Juve does deserve the fine, directors deserve fines, bans and we are likely to have a problem with UEFA and FFP as well.

But it also is obvious they havent come even close to begin explaining the basis for the -15 penalty, its not enough to write that there are "inevitable sporting consequences" to a purely accounting issue. And it is also obvious that even if we only look at the Juve transfers due to the extra info on us, those contain multiple other clubs as well and the prosecutor has failed to investigate the clubs who engaged with us in this fraud. To me thats completely unacceptable and basis for us going after FIGC.

 

[juve123]

Lawyer Intrieri, there are two main legal reasons why Juventus may have a chance in their appeal: the violation of the principle of legality and the mutation of the fact. He also pointed out that the court used evidence from a criminal investigation that has not yet been fully evaluated by the ordinary judge.(Tuttosport)

- - - Updated - - -

Coni will 100 percent overturn this decision.

- - - Updated - - -

Lawyer Intrieri: "The situation is surreal. the FIGC says that they should make a rule on capital gains, but Juve were sanctioned for that rule that doesn't exist."

Lawyer D'Onforio: "By law, It would not have been possible to impose points deduction, but only fines."

I am getting optimistic that finally justice will prevail.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Coni will 100 percent overturn this decision.

I am getting optimistic that finally justice will prevail.

Find one of your hot bitch gifs, write naive idiot on it and then quote yourself with it.

 

[s4tch]

I agree with Pedro - it seems obvious Juventus did inflate the values, the books were not representative...

so as with pedro who failed to answer, i'll just ask the same easy question: show us the obvious stuff. books are public, contractual player values are public, prove us that the books were not representative

 

[Strickland]

so as with pedro who failed to answer, i'll just ask the same easy question: show us the obvious stuff. books are public, contractual player values are public, prove us that the books were not representative

I cannot prove it. However the values mentioned there makes it seem obvious to me that we did it. Whether it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt or whatever the threshold is for Italian law with the wiretaps and other indirect evidence - no idea. But for me theres no doubt we did it looking at those numbers.

 

[s4tch]

I cannot prove it.

of course. so it's not that obvious, is it. obvious things are easy to prove.

i'll ask an easier one then: when can you call a financial statement representative? and an other one: what books are based on? and an other one: is there any illegal contract between juve and any other club? these questions have obvious answers, you don't need to dig up anything.

 

[juve123]

The Juventus lawyers are already at work, the club will file the appeal, then it will pass to the Coni Guarantee College. The lawyers, Bellacosa, Sangiorgio and Apa will probably base their appeal on ‘illogicality and groundlessness‘ from the FIGC’s report. (@Gazzetta_it )

 

[Mike-e-y]

"The validity of Juventus' reasons will be asserted firmly, albeit with the respect due to the institutions that issued it."

What a bunch of fags i officially hate this club

I truly hope our response gives the institution that issued it exactly the amount of respect that they deserve…

 

[Badass J Elkann]

The Juventus lawyers are already at work, the club will file the appeal, then it will pass to the Coni Guarantee College. The lawyers, Bellacosa, Sangiorgio and Apa will probably base their appeal on ‘illogicality and groundlessness‘ from the FIGC’s report. (@Gazzetta_it )

Hope these are proper fucking lawyers not some cheap no win no fee shit, ones that will literally take a massive shit on anything the figc tries to discredit us with

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Yes pls respect the institutions whose sole purpose is to seemingly destroy Italy’s greatest club but have zero respect for your fans.

 

[s4tch]

as for the invoice discussed yesterday, this guy says that it was reissued correctly and accounted accordingly

 

[Salvo]

Former president of the court of appeals is saying that the reasoning was ridiculous and that the FIGC have nothing to justify the 15 point penalty

 

[Salvo]

Yeah all that was adjusted for that document regarding Marseille was the address and some technical issues with names and so on

 

[U Picciriddu]

 

[Valerio.]

i don't know italian tax laws. in my country you can't correct an invoice like that, you have to cancel the invoice (with a credit note or with a so called cancel invoice which probably won't exist in every country) and issue the correct one once again. but as an evidence in the plusvalenza case it's ridiculously irrelevant and petty

same in Italy.
That's what they found in Juventus HQ.
Marseille sent a wrong invoice Juventus corrected it and sent it back and they made a new one but we still had to keep the copy of the void one.
That's not the actual invoice! just a discarded one that you have to keep regardless