Android (13 Viewers)

[Martin]

I think we will reach the time where we keep our phones longer than we usually do and just upgrade its OS when the hardware gets mature enough to be kept. We are just at the beginning and there is a lot to be added on these devices, the ideas are just flowing and the manufacturers are more than happy. They will keep producing like they are doing now up until there is not much more to be added on the devices.

That's certainly true. The more different one phone is from the next model the harder to make the same OS release run on both. Once the changes in hardware are smaller the OS issue will be easier too.

 

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[Sheik Yerbouti]

It's my impression (and I'm just casually keeping an eye on things so I don't have any inside scoop) that with Android manufacturers generally don't bother giving you the new OS release, I guess by the time they've sold you the handset it's a loss for them to keep supporting it.

In other words phones are not like computers where you can keep the same hardware for years and just update the OS. At least nothing so far to suggest that.

That's why this market needs way more openness so that owners can admin their own phones freely.

But with 2.1, and now 2.2 as evidence, the OS itself is becoming faster on the same hardware. So hardware is not the problem. Infact, I've tried 2.1 on my low-end HTC phone, and it runs faster than 1.6, no doubt. It's just manufacturers not investing enough time and money for updating the OS's. I agree that the openness allows up to update them on our own. But you have to admit that manufacturers are that little extra that you mostly won't get anywhere else, which makes updates from them much more important.

 

[JCK]

That's certainly true. The more different one phone is from the next model the harder to make the same OS release run on both. Once the changes in hardware are smaller the OS issue will be easier too.

That's the case with everything running on a microprocessor and software. It's the same with the control units in vehicles that I work with.

 

[Martin]

But with 2.1, and now 2.2 as evidence, the OS itself is becoming faster on the same hardware. So hardware is not the problem. Infact, I've tried 2.1 on my low-end HTC phone, and it runs faster than 1.6, no doubt. It's just manufacturers not investing enough time and money for updating the OS's. I agree that the openness allows up to update them on our own. But you have to admit that manufacturers are that little extra that you mostly won't get anywhere else, which makes updates from them much more important.

And you can sort of understand why. Software upgrades are complicated, just look at how long it took Ubuntu to give you an upgrade process that works (and some people are still reporting errors). In essence, manufacturers have a similar problem to deal with. Of course there's much less variety, they know the hardware the user has etc, but it's still complex.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

That's certainly true. The more different one phone is from the next model the harder to make the same OS release run on both. Once the changes in hardware are smaller the OS issue will be easier too.

Is it really THAT hard? You can go to the XDA forums and find devs porting ROM's to other phones with some effort. Hell, some even ported Android to the iPhone, which has hardware not similar to other Android phones. If a bunch of devs can do that, then what's stopping a big group of professional devs hired by manufacturers like HTC, Samsung, etc. to update THEIR OWN devices? They know what hardware they're using. They know how to get the OS working on it. They just won't do it.

 

[JCK]

But with 2.1, and now 2.2 as evidence, the OS itself is becoming faster on the same hardware. So hardware is not the problem. Infact, I've tried 2.1 on my low-end HTC phone, and it runs faster than 1.6, no doubt. It's just manufacturers not investing enough time and money for updating the OS's. I agree that the openness allows up to update them on our own. But you have to admit that manufacturers are that little extra that you mostly won't get anywhere else, which makes updates from them much more important.

And they will not invest time and money now, they will do that when they have got all the revenues they expected for creating all the small functions they are including in the phone. Take Desire for example, when you receive a call, if you turn the phone face down it goes to silent. That function alone was developed in a project that has several engineers, project managers and other resources. They will not add this feature for your Tattoo just because it is included in a later operating system. You bought your phone at a price where that feature was not yet fully developed so you get what you paid for. But this will change when these hardware and software changes are minimal and that's when the phone is a mature product just as the laptop is. When was the last time you heard of a new kick ass function in a laptop?

 

[Martin]

Is it really THAT hard? You can go to the XDA forums and find devs porting ROM's to other phones with some effort. Hell, some even ported Android to the iPhone, which has hardware not similar to other Android phones. If a bunch of devs can do that, then what's stopping a big group of professional devs hired by manufacturers like HTC, Samsung, etc. to update THEIR OWN devices? They know what hardware they're using. They know how to get the OS working on it. They just won't do it.

You're right, they won't. Because it costs something. And because the phone market is such that people are used to replacing their phones all the time, so noone will demand upgrades. So they can get away with it easily.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

You're right, they won't. Because it costs something. And because the phone market is such that people are used to replacing their phones all the time, so noone will demand upgrades. So they can get away with it easily.

And that's what I hate about technology these days. The concept of obsolescence, and denying software updates is something I've been seeing too much, especially since my employer does that too. It's sad to see people who have the power to do something about it just sitting quietly and doing nothing.

 

[Martin]

And that's what I hate about technology these days. The concept of obsolescence, and denying software updates is something I've been seeing too much, especially since my employer does that too. It's sad to see people who have the power to do something about it just sitting quietly and doing nothing.

It's always been like that, man. That's what the free software movement is all about, take control of your own hardware and software. As long as someone else has control, all you can do is bow and praise them, hoping that's gonna get you what you want.

 

[.zero]

But one thing I'm scared of is whether and when current phones will get a FroYo update. Manufacturers are taking their own time to release new updates running 2.1 on the first place. For ex., HTC is still not giving a proper date when the HTC Hero gets 2.1, and the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 is gonna get 2.1 in Q4 2010, which is ridiculous! If things go this way, and it's gonna be terrible. We'll need to buy new phones just to get a better OS.

But that is no different than how its always been. The only thing different actually is that the new OS' and handsets are being released faster than ever before, one after another each month.

It's my impression (and I'm just casually keeping an eye on things so I don't have any inside scoop) that with Android manufacturers generally don't bother giving you the new OS release, I guess by the time they've sold you the handset it's a loss for them to keep supporting it.

In other words phones are not like computers where you can keep the same hardware for years and just update the OS. At least nothing so far to suggest that.

That's why this market needs way more openness so that owners can admin their own phones freely.

Wrong

Android is open source and hacking is encouraged. Custom roms and builds are available and once again encouraged by HTC/Google on XDA and its developers. It's rather easy to upgrade following the tutorials posted on that site.

I think we will reach the time where we keep our phones longer than we usually do and just upgrade its OS when the hardware gets mature enough to be kept. We are just at the beginning and there is a lot to be added on these devices, the ideas are just flowing and the manufacturers are more than happy. They will keep producing like they are doing now up until there is not much more to be added on the devices.

The market has already topped out IMO. Its just about one manufacturer stepping up to make the ideal phone and then minor discrepancies in features can be the separator. Then everything including pricing will come down to the actual service providers. I think Google will achieve that here in the next 2 years. I criticize HTC alot but they are the only manufacturer that constantly puts out new handsets based on constant process/design/production improvements

Is it really THAT hard? You can go to the XDA forums and find devs porting ROM's to other phones with some effort. Hell, some even ported Android to the iPhone, which has hardware not similar to other Android phones. If a bunch of devs can do that, then what's stopping a big group of professional devs hired by manufacturers like HTC, Samsung, etc. to update THEIR OWN devices? They know what hardware they're using. They know how to get the OS working on it. They just won't do it.

Bingo

 

[Nicholas]

Anyone had a go at the X10 yet?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Nope. But I heard it's got some major OS issues, and it doesn't seem as fast as expected. Plus, it's gonna get the Android 2.1 update sometime early next year. I suggest you look elsewhere mate.

 

[Nicholas]

Nope. But I heard it's got some major OS issues, and it doesn't seem as fast as expected. Plus, it's gonna get the Android 2.1 update sometime early next year. I suggest you look elsewhere mate.

What would you personally recommend?

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The Nexus One, HTC Legend and Desire, Moto Droid\Milestone, and I kinda like the Acer Liquid purely based on specs.

 

[Nicholas]

The Nexus One, HTC Legend and Desire, Moto Droid\Milestone, and I kinda like the Acer Liquid purely based on specs.

Thanks for that, much appreciated. + rep.

 

[JCK]

Go for the HTC Desire, you won't be doing any wrong there.

 

[Nicholas]

Go for the HTC Desire, you won't be doing any wrong there.

I used to have the HTC Diamond and I did like that alot, so I'll check the Desire out. Thanks Jack

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The UI in the Desire is greatly different from the Diamond. But I'm sure you'll like it more than the Diamond.

 

[.zero]

The Diamond was a WM device. Once again another decent piece of technology gone to waste by running WM.

I had the Touch Diamond last spring for a few weeks and it was a nice little handset minus the OS. Build, size and feel were

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Nexus One users, did any of you get your FroYo update yet?