You're going to hell if you __________ (5 Viewers)

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Oh, I don't think that the probability is inifinitely small. Mathematical calculations determined that the probability is infinitely small.
Compared to what? Nothing can be probable or improbable without a frame of reference.

I wasn't really going for that exactly. I was trying to prove that science is not required to provide truth as you have mentioned previously. to quote you, "if you know something and cannot prove it, then you cannot convince anyone". I was just trying to make the point that you don't need to scientifically prove everything to prove their credibility.
Sure you do. If you and I already share an intuition, for example: "people know right from wrong", then we can agree on this without science. But if you have some sort of personal knowledge that I don't share, then you can only convince me if you have proof. Ie. if I do not already have the proof then I have to get it from somewhere.
 

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Blindman
Jun 13, 2007
7,233
Compared to what? Nothing can be probable or improbable without a frame of reference.



Sure you do. If you and I already share an intuition, for example: "people know right from wrong", then we can agree on this without science. But if you have some sort of personal knowledge that I don't share, then you can only convince me if you have proof. Ie. if I do not already have the proof then I have to get it from somewhere.

I'll send you a page of how it was calculated once I find it.

Proving or disproving the existence of god is impossible. I have many legitimate reasons to believe that God does exist however. I find it very difficult to believe that humans are merely flesh and blood who have absolutely no meaning or purpose and are just here to eat, sleep, and fuck. My intuition tells me there is much much more to it than that, 95% of the world agrees with me. Why do so many of us have this intuitive feeling that such things as souls and spirituality exist?
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
I'll send you a page of how it was calculated once I find it.

Proving or disproving the existence of god is impossible. I have many legitimate reasons to believe that God does exist however. I find it very difficult to believe that humans are merely flesh and blood who have absolutely no meaning or purpose and are just here to eat, sleep, and fuck. My intuition tells me there is much much more to it than that, 95% of the world agrees with me. Why do so many of us have this intuitive feeling that such things as souls and spirituality exist?
I know this is starting to get repetitive, but: prove it.

Half of "Christians" who say they believe in god don't really believe anyway, don't even go to church. I bet it's much the same in other religions. It's considered "normal' to say that you believe in god, that doesn't mean people actually do.
 

BlanquiNegro

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2006
949
ßüякε;1890819 said:
I will deny all of them.
Fine
will you agree if i told u that the cobalt was discovered in 1737
and that it can be found in a large amount in Meteros or Meteroids
the information which was discovered just few years ago?
 

rounder

Blindman
Jun 13, 2007
7,233
I know this is starting to get repetitive, but: prove it.

Half of "Christians" who say they believe in god don't really believe anyway, don't even go to church. I bet it's much the same in other religions. It's considered "normal' to say that you believe in god, that doesn't mean people actually do.
God exists in timeless eternityHow does God acting before time began get around the problem of God's creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed. Therefore, God has no need of being created, but, in fact, created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us. However, since God created time, cause and effect would never apply to His existence.

God exists in multiple dimension of timeThe second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimensions of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no end and is not restricted to any single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimension of time can travel anywhere in time and yet never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.

Why can't the universe be eternal?The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn't need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical "science" that attempt to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger "multiverse" that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters.2 Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a substitute "god" for atheists. And, since this "god" is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.

What does science say about time?When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation (i.e., the Big Bang).3 In fact, if you examine university websites, you will find that many professors make such a claim - that the universe had a beginning and that this beginning marked the beginning of time (see The Universe is Not Eternal, But Had A Beginning). Such assertions support the Bible's claim that time began at the creation of the universe.

Conclusion God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

godandscience.org
 

Martin

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
Now you just posted exactly the same thing that Someone has been writing all along. "God is first, god is last, god is single" yadayadayada. Meaningless words.

Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have always existed.
This is complete crap. Noone can even argue what would be true or untrue without the dimension of time, because noone has actually witnessed anything where time isn't present.
 
Apr 12, 2004
77,165
Now you just posted exactly the same thing that Someone has been writing all along. "God is first, god is last, god is single" yadayadayada. Meaningless words.



This is complete crap. Noone can even argue what would be true or untrue without the dimension of time, because noone has actually witnessed anything where time isn't present.
Not even God...
 

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