You're going to hell if you __________ (20 Viewers)

[Azzurri7]

if anybody has questions about Islam and Quran he should make contact with Imams and Alims.Ordinary people can make mistake when they are answering questions.

No offense bro, but I find Imams and Alims (or Sheikh's the other Arabic word for it) the most corrupted thieves and not to mention that each one would give you a different answer than the other.

Funny thing, 3 years ago, I was with this friend of mine back in Beirut sitting with Sheikh and my friend was just asking some simple questions that irritated me and pushed me to ask the Sheikh some tough questions that he had no answer to and was replying to me each time saying don't question Qur'an/God. That's a mistake.

You know what I also believe, I believe that most of these religious men (Sheikh or Priests) don't even believe in God but they do it just for their pockets and I've seen them with my own eyes.

 

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[rounder]

No doubt man.

I would say most of these people see preaching about their faith is a good business. Most if not all religious leaders are as corrupt as they come. I believe religion in itself is holy, it's message is pure, however, those who preach it are not and that's precisely why religion has sustained a negative reputation universally.

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

No offense bro, but I find Imams and Alims (or Sheikh's the other Arabic word for it) the most corrupted thieves and not to mention that each one would give you a different answer than the other.

Funny thing, 3 years ago, I was with this friend of mine back in Beirut sitting with Sheikh and my friend was just asking some simple questions that irritated me and pushed me to ask the Sheikh some tough questions that he had no answer to and was replying to me each time saying don't question Qur'an/God. That's a mistake.

You know what I also believe, I believe that most of these religious men (Sheikh or Priests) don't even believe in God but they do it just for their pockets and I've seen them with my own eyes.

That's why i said trustworthy and well informed.Unfortunately there aren't many.Some shameful events against faithful people happened in past.True believers replaced with corrupted ones.

 

[Azzurri7]

No doubt man.

I would say most of these people see preaching about their faith is a good business. Most if not all religious leaders are as corrupt as they come. I believe religion in itself is holy, it's message is pure, however, those who preach it are not and that's precisely why religion has sustained a negative reputation universally.

100% save the speech.



Turk, Yeah, but I'm not sure if it's that easy to find one.

 

[Il Re]

No offense bro, but I find Imams and Alims (or Sheikh's the other Arabic word for it) the most corrupted thieves and not to mention that each one would give you a different answer than the other.

Funny thing, 3 years ago, I was with this friend of mine back in Beirut sitting with Sheikh and my friend was just asking some simple questions that irritated me and pushed me to ask the Sheikh some tough questions that he had no answer to and was replying to me each time saying don't question Qur'an/God. That's a mistake.

You know what I also believe, I believe that most of these religious men (Sheikh or Priests) don't even believe in God but they do it just for their pockets and I've seen them with my own eyes.

that's true, but some religeous leaders i have known have been some of the best and nicest people i have ever met

 

[Snoop]

No offense bro, but I find Imams and Alims (or Sheikh's the other Arabic word for it) the most corrupted thieves and not to mention that each one would give you a different answer than the other.

Funny thing, 3 years ago, I was with this friend of mine back in Beirut sitting with Sheikh and my friend was just asking some simple questions that irritated me and pushed me to ask the Sheikh some tough questions that he had no answer to and was replying to me each time saying don't question Qur'an/God. That's a mistake.

You know what I also believe, I believe that most of these religious men (Sheikh or Priests) don't even believe in God but they do it just for their pockets and I've seen them with my own eyes.

Exactly my thought!!

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

100% save the speech.



Turk, Yeah, but I'm not sure if it's that easy to find one.

surely it isn't.We can' find people like Al-Ghazali in our age but this shouldn't stop us from living and learning our religion.

 

[Azzurri7]

that's true, but some religeous leaders i have known have been some of the best and nicest people i have ever met

No doubt. You'll always find good and honest people.

But in the Arab world for example, Muslims and Christians religious leaders are in Politics(most of them). Something I can never understand or get. Why would a religious person be in Politics if not for business/profiting out of the poor minded people?

 

[Alen]

You have something romantic with Turk, you always agree with him

No man. If you read my previous posts in this topic you will see that i questioned most of the things Turk believes in. Some may see those posts as a direct attack on the Qur'an.

But what Turk said is indeed true, at least partly true. No-one managed to prove completely that at least a certain part of the Qur'an is a fraud. There is a lot of space for a reasonable doubt, but that's all for now.

 

[Zé Tahir]

Ok, i think i can argue with this but i won't for the time being.

I just wanted to ask this.... (let me find an english translation first)......

Ok, here it is:

Q10: 37 And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.

If i understand correctly, it's said here that the Qur'an isn't invented, and there is no doubt it's from God.

So now we have a challenge and the non-believers are asked to produce an alternative qur'an:
Q52: 33,34 “Or do they say, 'He has invented it?’ Nay, but they do not believe. Then let them bring a discourse like it, if they speak truly.”

But previously the non-believers were asked to produce only 10 suras
Q11:13,14 “Or do they say, 'He has forged it’? Say: 'Then bring you ten suras the like of it, forged; and call upon whom you are able, apart from God, if you speak truly.’

And little before that they were asked to produce only one similar sura to prove that they can do better
Q10:38 " Or they say : He has forged it ? Say: Then bring a sura like it, and call (for help) besides Allah, if you are truthful".


What i wondered is if you think that a man can not produce even a sura like sura 108 which contains 25 words and goes like this :
Q108:1 Yes, We have given you Abundance;

Q108:2 So pray to your Lord, and sacrifice.

Q108: 3 Yes, it is the insulter (and not you) who is without posterity.

Let me get this straight...you're wondering why the number of surah's challanged to be presented change? I think I got that part of your question but then I'm lost about your last question.

Yes, this i can accept.

Oh, and i want to ask this......
Is the Qur'an composed by an all-knowing, all-powerful God and is it intended for all mankind for all time? If it is, then it should display an awareness of all the earth, of all its people, of their past and of their future, right ?

Well, then i seriously find it strange why is it limited to events contemporary with its origin and to the people, flora and fauna of the Arabian peninsula?

If it isn't intended for all mankind, then nevermind.

I have like million more questions but it's too late. If you're willing i can ask these questions tomorrow.

It is intended for all of mankind. Are you referring to all the stories told about the prophets that lived in the Arabian peninsula?

 

[Fred]

No doubt. You'll always find good and honest people.

But in the Arab world for example, Muslims and Christians religious leaders are in Politics(most of them). Something I can never understand or get. Why would a religious person be in Politics if not for business/profiting out of the poor minded people?

I cannot agree more. I too cannot understand and cannot trust religious leaders that are in politics. We all know how corrupted arab politics and politicians are. How and why sheiks would want to be a part of that is simply beyond me.

 

[Snoop]

No man. If you read my previous posts in this topic you will see that i questioned most of the things Turk believes in. Some may see those posts as a direct attack on the Qur'an.

But what Turk said is indeed true, at least partly true. No-one managed to prove completely that at least a certain part of the Qur'an is a fraud. There is a lot of space for a reasonable doubt, but that's all for now.

oh my bad. I didn't know you were talking about frauds. I thought "wrongs" as "bad" "not good". int:

 

[BlanquiNegro]

Lets put Quran aside

Look at yourself and ask yourself :
Who gave me the life?
Who is taking it back ?
why i am not eternal or immortal?
I can control my breathing while i am awake
but who is controlling it while i am sleeping?

Then look at the earth and ask yourself
Who created it?
who is keeping it moving in the same circles for thousands of years?
who is keeping the distance between it and the sun?
Why don't the earth get closer to it and then burn, or why it doesn't move away from it and get frozen?
Who created the water?
And why the water is the base of all the livings?
2/3 of human body is water
Who created the mountains and valleys?and why?
Who created the oceans rivers, lakes and falls?

Then look at the sky and ask yourself
Who created the sun and the moon?
who is controlling their movements ?
Who created the atmosphere?
Who created the oxygen?
Why can't we live without it?
Who created those millions of stars?
Who is taking care of all of them all these years?

Who is and who is and who is?
Endless Qs
Those who don't believe in God , will you please answer me who?
Nature?
If it is the nature, with all the extraordinary power needed to do so
nature which can't be identified
which can't be recognised
which can't be seen
which can't be imagined
which can't be examined

Why is it difficult to believe its Allah "God"
when we can't see him
when we can't imagine him
when we can't examine him
If it is the nature, why can't we control it?

And if the answer is "nothing" to the earlier Qs
Is it rational and logic to think that there is nothing controlling everything
or everything is controlling itself by itself
if it is so
Why don't we control ourselves at least?
Why can't we stay alive without water and oxygen
why can't we control our heartbeat, blood flows and breaths?
why can't we control our own systems, neurological,gastric respiratory etc?

How can i convince myself that everything starting from deep inside me to the stars is just running by itself or there is nothing behind it , taking care of it

When i see a car moving , i realise that someone is driving it
When i see a factory , i know that there is someone running it
When i see a paint, i know that someone did it

Everything is created or controlled or both by someone
Nothing=Nothing
Nothing is nothing
its very simple scientific, rational and logic concept

There is something controlling everything

Who is that someone if it is not Allah "God"?
God is the first and nothing before him and that's why he is God
God is the last and nothing after him and that's why he is God
God is the only answer

 

[Eddy]

So if god created all of this, then who created god ? I mean he couldn't have just popped out of no where right ?

 

[Martin]

So if god created all of this, then who created god ? I mean he couldn't have just popped out of no where right ?

It's such an interesting trick of the mind. You can't both argue that nothing comes from nothing and that it does.

 

[.zero]

PWNED!

 

[rounder]

God is infinite meaning he always existed beyond the boundaries of space and time.

 

[Lawnchair Bes]

Lets put Quran aside

Look at yourself and ask yourself :
Who gave me the life?
Who is taking it back ?
why i am not eternal or immortal?
I can control my breathing while i am awake
but who is controlling it while i am sleeping?

Then look at the earth and ask yourself
Who created it?
who is keeping it moving in the same circles for thousands of years?
who is keeping the distance between it and the sun?
Why don't the earth get closer to it and then burn, or why it doesn't move away from it and get frozen?
Who created the water?
And why the water is the base of all the livings?
2/3 of human body is water
Who created the mountains and valleys?and why?
Who created the oceans rivers, lakes and falls?

Then look at the sky and ask yourself
Who created the sun and the moon?
who is controlling their movements ?
Who created the atmosphere?
Who created the oxygen?
Why can't we live without it?
Who created those millions of stars?
Who is taking care of all of them all these years?

Who is and who is and who is?
Endless Qs
Those who don't believe in God , will you please answer me who?
Nature?
If it is the nature, with all the extraordinary power needed to do so
nature which can't be identified
which can't be recognised
which can't be seen
which can't be imagined
which can't be examined

Why is it difficult to believe its Allah "God"
when we can't see him
when we can't imagine him
when we can't examine him
If it is the nature, why can't we control it?

And if the answer is "nothing" to the earlier Qs
Is it rational and logic to think that there is nothing controlling everything
or everything is controlling itself by itself
if it is so
Why don't we control ourselves at least?
Why can't we stay alive without water and oxygen
why can't we control our heartbeat, blood flows and breaths?
why can't we control our own systems, neurological,gastric respiratory etc?

How can i convince myself that everything starting from deep inside me to the stars is just running by itself or there is nothing behind it , taking care of it

When i see a car moving , i realise that someone is driving it
When i see a factory , i know that there is someone running it
When i see a paint, i know that someone did it

Everything is created or controlled or both by someone
Nothing=Nothing
Nothing is nothing
its very simple scientific, rational and logic concept

There is something controlling everything

Who is that someone if it is not Allah "God"?
God is the first and nothing before him and that's why he is God
God is the last and nothing after him and that's why he is God
God is the only answer

God is infinite meaning he always existed beyond the boundaries of space and time.

no one can answer these questions or know if the statements are true, so why bother with it

 

[Martin]

God is infinite meaning he always existed beyond the boundaries of space and time.

And so has all this "unexplained" stuff that is here. If god is timeless that means something can be timeless, so it might as well be the universe.

See how easy it is to make up stuff?

 

[Eddy]

It's such an interesting trick of the mind. You can't both argue that nothing comes from nothing and that it does.

He can't argue that it comes from nothing but I sure as hell can.