Who was right... (1 Viewer)

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#41
++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++
I know that I'm going to take some heat for saying this, but Baggio is still one of Italy's best. He's up there with DP and Vieri.

I would have rather had him than Totti (like I said even before the WC)

He'll never be picked for the Euro, he pissed off Trap with his comments following the WC, and if Lippi is in charge by then, Robi has a better chance of making the English team !!!!
Not at all, i do feel baggio is one of the all time gr8s, but i do take exception when anyone says he is still the best in the world and the best of all time as i feel thats an exaggeration, as to whether he should play for Italy, if he is fit then yes they could still call him up
 

TiNiB

New Member
Aug 29, 2002
14
#42
ok, firstly lets get some things straight

Bergkamp is no way better than Baggio and does not score better goals.

The Baggio vs Bergkamp competition can be seen in the early 90's.
Baggio at juve , Birdcrap at inter.

Bergkamp failed miserebly to set serie a alight when playing in italian football for inter milan.
Back then the italian league was profoundly a defensive league although thought as the best league in the world, the marking was tight. But who was the one player that shone in this league? Baggio - he beat man after man with his mazy dribbles and deadly finishing:

JUV-FOGGIA_(2-0)(80_MIN)_JAN_30_1994.MPG
CREMONSESE-JUV_(0-2)(90_MIN)_MAR_15_1992.MPG
UDINESE-JUV_(0-3)(62_MIN)_JAN_2_1994.MPEG

There are many more i can post! Especially from the late 80's when he was at Fiorentina.

I have never seen bergkamp do dribbles like maradonna/baggio. Yes the Bergkamp at Arsenal has great flair and ability and is technically gifted, i have seen great things from him in the past few years but he is playing in a different league - a more open one and yet still he does not have the same effect on the game that baggio has had.

Baggio has not had the opportunities that most players have had for club and country. Managers have bizzarely left him on the bench when he was at Ac and Inter Milan. But when Baggio has been given the chance he has never dissapointed. eg. His last game for inter he scored twice in the Champion League qualifier play off against parma:

INT-PARMA_(3-1)(36_MIN)_MAY_23_2000.MPG
INT-PARMA_(3-1)(84_MIN)_MAY_23_2000.MPG

and the goals against R. Madrid:

INT-REAL_MADRID_(3-1)(90_MIN)_NOV_25_1998.MPG

At international level his 27 goals may seem inferior to the likes of Batigol but they are diferent players who play different games. u can however compare Baggio to Maradonna 2 players who play alike , goalscorers and playmakers.

therefore baggios 27 along maradonnas 31 is not inferior at all, infact its pretty damn good due to the fact that national managers have not selected him in recent years. in Italia 90 Vialli was Vicinis favourite for some reason, he kept playing him and playing him even when he could not perform, Baggio was given a chance against Czecoslavakia and look what he did:

ITALIA_'90-ITA-CZE_(2-0)(77_MIN)_JUN_19_1990.MPG

Also remember that to be a cup winner u have to have a solid team around u, back in 90,91,92,93 juve were not one of the best, yes they had Moller, Vialli etc but the overall team was not as generously gifted as the great AC Milan were in those days. When Baggio was at AC and Inter in the late 90's he was playing for teams who were not performing as well as they should have been, both the Milan managers were sacked. Along came lippi at inter and the trouble began again for baggio.

At Bologna Baggio was picked for every game, and again he never dissapointed. Having one of his best seasons:

VICENZA-BOL_(3-2)(56_MIN)_NOV_1997.MPG
BOL-MILAN_(3-0)(15_MIN)_APR_19_1998.MPG

If there are no opportunities for u to take then how can u prove ure self?

But what Baggio has done with the limited support he has got from managers is truly outstanding and personally i feel he belongs up there (not above) with Maradonna.


By the way i'm 101% English and so its not just italians that say this.

===================================================================================================================
 

TiNiB

New Member
Aug 29, 2002
14
#48
heh sorry ErikP, some of my non arsenal football supporting friends called him that.

DJ Juve: yeah, it would help on the Baggio discussion.

Thanks
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#49
I get totally bemused when Baggio is said to be on the same level with Maradona, lets see Maradona came from Argentina to Italy played for a club who never won anything of note before his arrival, won 2 scudettos, the double, and then the Uefa cup when it still meant something, he took a mediocre Argentine side to wc glory, now compare this to Baggio, won scudetto twice but was a bit part player in both, was in a good juve side but never won the league, but no his apologists will tell you they were not that good, they had peruzzi in goal, kohler, julio cesar, platt, moeller, vialli, marocchi, toricelli, conte, dino baggio and lots more but his apologists will tell you that he was in a bad team

What exactly did he do at internatinal level apart from being matyred that he took Italy to wc final and LOST,

Did Italy not fail to qualify for euro92 with him there, and was Milan's coach meant to drop Savicevic or Weah in favour of Baggio

Great player he was but puurrrleeeze, Maradona, Pele, Cruyff, Platini, Di Stephano, Puskas, Beckenbauer, Zico are a rung above

Bergkamp is dutch used to an attacking mentality, its like saying for sure that the pace of the premiership will be okay for Baggio
 

Evelyn8

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2002
584
#52
++ [ originally posted by Sagha ] ++
Ronaldihno isnt that good...Brazil was very lucky in this WC dont forget it, England excepted they only meet weak opponents...

There is only one player who can do it all in this world...In fact some can do useless dribbles (zz) without knowing realy how to take a shoot or a fk...others r very fast and have a good shoot (Figo) but never heard about passes...others can do great fk and cross (Beckham) but lack in style when it comes about shoot or dribble....others r only oppurtunist and can score sometimes but doesnt realy have teknik (Raul, Ronaldo)...

In fact there is still only one player in the world who make wonderful assists, incredible fk, who can shoot from anywhere everywhere, who dribbles like no other men can do, who never make a useless move (isnt it zz?)....whatever this man do is lethal and its for this and no others reasons that he is the best in the world, noone can do what he can I mean if someone is good in something he will be weak in a other aspect, thats not his case, his name???

ALLESANDRO DEL PIERO

You got it!
Now thats more like it
 

Evelyn8

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2002
584
#53
++ [ originally posted by Alex ] ++

[*]Raul does not have any technique

How can you say this

As a Symphatizer of the Evil MAdrid
you should now

that Raul long played in midfield before switching to striker

He was first a mifielder then a playmaker and only in recent years has he been a striker.

His Visioin together with his total technique is a feat to watch
 

Evelyn8

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2002
584
#54
Sagha You misinformed dillusinary

At the Current moment D'Allesandro will even be picked before Baggio if he was to come to Brescia

(which he would ofcourse never choose)

Baggio would of been smart if he had gone to the MLS years ago
he would of let his fans Pipe Dreams sound a bit more realistic

NOw they are Just crazy dreams

I mean Even an ITalian Juventus Supporter will say
Platini is way better then Baggio


Baggio had the same class as Tigana or Gentile or Roberto Mancini.

But Depending Baggio for Del Piero
was one of the most bold and best moves a Manager has ever managed to do during the 90's.

Besides Baggio will never be a true Juventino
Coming from the jealous Viola.
going to at the time Juventus biggest rivals Milan
settling down at Bologna
only to switch to the next big Scudetto Rivals INter.

He is a fortune Seeker and in 15years time his name won't be bigger then Vieri's
 

Evelyn8

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2002
584
#55
++ [ originally posted by TiNiB ] ++
heh sorry ErikP, some of my non arsenal football supporting friends called him that.

DJ Juve: yeah, it would help on the Baggio discussion.

Thanks
too bad

none of those VIDEOS work
 

TiNiB

New Member
Aug 29, 2002
14
#56
++ [ originally posted by Evelyn8 ] ++

He is a fortune Seeker and in 15 years time his name won't be bigger then Vieri's
I doubt that very much, even though Vieri is a class player he wont overtake Baggio, not even Del Piero can do this.
==============================================

Baggio never left juve, it was lippi that pushed him out.
as 4 joining Bologna well i would think most players would join a club which would guarantee them a place in the side, especially the way they were treated at Milan.
==============================================
The videos all work fine 4 me. (whats the prob?)
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#57
Another BAGGIO apologist , oh Lippi didnt like him boo hoo, Capello didn't play him, sob sob ,Sacchi dropped him from the Nt and Trap is a p**ck for not picking him but somehow Baggio is on a par to Maradona

Its not poor Baggio's fault that the Nt managers somehow pregerred first it was Vicini with Giannini, then it was Sacchi wholater prefered Zola or then Maldini prefered Dp, then it was Trap who prefered Totti

But not to Baggio fans, is that a plane no is tha a bird no its ta ta ta ra super Baggio except he now plies his trade for Brescia because the idiots in Milan ,Juve and Inter don't appreciate greatness when they see it they just put him on the bench while lesser players , play even if these lesser players in Juve and Mialn go on to win the league and Cl

Do us a favour ,Baggio is good but you guys make me sick with all the excuses, was he not in the team that failed to qualify for the Euro92 and whats he doing in Brescia, if he is the best

And when you dare challenge them , they ask how old you are, what do you know about football

Well i am old ebough to know Baggio played for Fiorentina where he went to Juve for a world record fee, he left Juve in 94/95 to go to Milan, then he went to Bologna where he had his best season as far as goals go, then he went to inter and now he is Brescia

He is not the best player in the world, he is not the best player theres has ever been, he is not the best free kick taker ever and he is not the strongest minded palyer there ever was

If he was the above he would have won the wc, he would have least played in European championship, he would have played in at least in the semi finals of cl, he would have inspired a club to scudetto sucess, he would have been european player of the year more than once or was he not playing when Van basten won it 3 times , gullitt twice, i
 

Boudz

Mercato Tourist
Aug 1, 2002
2,572
#58
sorry 2 burst ur bubble guys but you are forgetting that Baggio suffered a serious hamstring injury days b4 the WC final in 94.
 

Sivori

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
810
#59
++ [ originally posted by Stripper ] ++
sorry 2 burst ur bubble guys but you are forgetting that Baggio suffered a serious hamstring injury days b4 the WC final in 94.
And this burts "the bubble"?
 

denco

Superior Being
Jul 12, 2002
4,679
#60
++ [ originally posted by Stripper ] ++
sorry 2 burst ur bubble guys but you are forgetting that Baggio suffered a serious hamstring injury days b4 the WC final in 94.
And so what didn't Ronaldo suffer worse at wc98 and didnt he come back to redeem himself?

Its all the apologies for Baggio that drives me mad. He is a very great talent but his career is not littered with success and besides Baresi came back from serious knee injury to be the best player on the field
 

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