US Presidential Elections thread - the fate of the world to be decided (7 Viewers)

Who would you vote to be the next President of the United States?

  • John McCain

  • Barack Obama

  • undecided

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Bjerknes

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
#3,042
Mar 16, 2004
111,601
#3,042
Sarah said:
First, no one here called you unpatriotic and claims to "know it all." I tend to respect your opinions but this I can't agree with you on. I also don't appreciate being talked down to as if I have claimed to know it all. I don't form opinions on things I know nothing about and you know that. Learn to respect different opinions because I respect that I will not agree with you on everything even if you think I am crazy to believe what I believe. You and I are both educated enough to know not to believe everything that is told to us.

I question what the government has to say but, I also question what conspiracy theorists have to say. It would be stupid not to. Everyone knows about 75% of the bull shit that comes out of the conspiracy theorists' mouths is incorrect especially when it comes to things like 9/11. Their theories make sense when it comes to things like fighting a war for oil rather than to save ourselves from "weapons of mass destruction and then to liberate the Iraqi people." I also want to point out the Iraq war does not even compare to 9/11 so please make a real comparison if you want to make a point. The conspiracy that the Iraq war was really for oil was out before the war even began. I wrote my economic thesis about it 6 months before the war in Iraq by using reliable sources like the NY Times, etc which I got an A on and not failed while being called "unpatriotic" by my professor. So to even compare the ideals behind the Iraq war and 9/11 doesn't make sense.

The only research that backs up the 9/11 govt conspiracy is rap songs and unemployed filmmakers' documentaries which skew the facts to fit their message. I watched Loose Change and Loose Change II which is Loose Change with amendments because some of their points were so crazy they decided it was better to change it themselves to make their video believable. I then read an article by Popular Mechanics which proved about 90% of their video false. I also read what the government had to say as well in the 9/11 Commission Report (can't say I read all 600 pages of it but I got the gist of it). So I came to my own conclusion.

There might be some suspicious details about 9/11 but I don't think that means the government somehow convinced people to kill themselves for the sake of the Republican Party by leaving behind their whole families with no money, etc. Now I find that to be laughable.
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I receive the "unpatriotic" jibe all the time, and while Vinni might not say it outright, he certainly alludes to it. And I can't help to say that your, "you believe it too" comment was rather condescending as well, so it sort of seemed like you were trying to place me in the usual group of "crazies" just because we may think the USA isn't such a peace bearer. I don't believe you're crazy even in the slightest.

The term conspiracy theory is actually something that promotes bias towards the government. Whether or not it's valid, if one opinion is labeled as such, it will be ridiculed. Why? Because the thinking behind the opinion goes against everything taught in the United States. One person believes the government is corrupt, the rest of the populous thinks that person is wrong instinctively. And this is simply due to the fact Americans believe our country could do no wrong. It's a brainwashing success story.

I don't care about rap songs that have conspiracy theory within them. The fact you stated omething about this is actually alarming as you probably wrote that because you know I love hip hop. And if so, that's not cool Sarah. The 9/11 Commission Report, as you know, is also a government regulated source, so one shouldn't take it as truth either.

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying the US was surely behind the events on 9/11. But what I want to do is uphold a standard of admitting I don't exactly know what happened, something everybody should concede, because we can only believe what the lying Bush administration tells us. It behooves us to keep an open mind.




:agree:

anyone in the right mind would have moved out of this country immediately. I wouldn't live in a place where I thought I could get on a plane and be sacrificed for the good of a political party which is why a lot of people seek political asylum from their dictatorships and crazy governments. Not because you are unpatriotic but because you are worried for your safety and well-being.
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You know, this is probably your most arrogant comment on this forum. Not all of us have the ability to simply vacate the country with an entire family and education to leave behind. I don't live in a millionaire family, so moving out of here right now isn't an option. I would if I could.

But yeah, I find that a pretty sad comment, just so you know.
 
Sarah

Sarah

s-doLLa
#3,044
Sep 26, 2007
2,119
#3,044
LetsBrushYourTeeth said:
I receive the "unpatriotic" jibe all the time, and while Vinni might not say it outright, he certainly alludes to it. And I can't help to say that your, "you believe it too" comment was rather condescending as well, so it sort of seemed like you were trying to place me in the usual group of "crazies" just because we may think the USA isn't such a peace bearer. I don't believe you're crazy even in the slightest.

The term conspiracy theory is actually something that promotes bias towards the government. Whether or not it's valid, if one opinion is labeled as such, it will be ridiculed. Why? Because the thinking behind the opinion goes against everything taught in the United States. One person believes the government is corrupt, the rest of the populous thinks that person is wrong instinctively. And this is simply due to the fact Americans believe our country could do no wrong. It's a brainwashing success story.

I don't care about rap songs that have conspiracy theory within them. The fact you stated omething about this is actually alarming as you probably wrote that because you know I love hip hop. And if so, that's not cool Sarah. The 9/11 Commission Report, as you know, is also a government regulated source, so one shouldn't take it as truth either.

Just to make it clear, I'm not saying the US was surely behind the events on 9/11. But what I want to do is uphold a standard of admitting I don't exactly know what happened, something everybody should concede, because we can only believe what the lying Bush administration tells us. It behooves us to keep an open mind.

You know, this is probably your most arrogant comment on this forum. Not all of us have the ability to simply vacate the country with an entire family and education to leave behind. I don't live in a millionaire family, so moving out of here right now isn't an option. I would if I could.

But yeah, I find that a pretty sad comment, just so you know.
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I didn't mean to be condescending with my first comment of my "you believe it too" comment. I wasn't actually referring to you initially with it it was more those but I was thinking of the people that I have met who are 99.9% sure our government is responsible for 9/11. I can see how you took it that way though. I apologize for not making it clear who I was referring to. 9/11 is one of those topics that tends to make my blood boil.

I also don't think America is a peace bearer who does no wrong because our country has clearly made mistakes in the past and we are making mistakes currently. I don't agree with a lot of the things that are going on in this country and I question it. I don't believe everyone in the government is in it for the greater good. History shows that is not true and it would be naive of me to believe that. But I do believe that the government does a lot of right as well because I do believe in democracy as a form of government. I think there are people there who do a lot of good in it.

I don't believe everything that is in the 9/11 Commission Report but I do like to see what our government has to say about the blunders they have made even if it is biased information just as much as I like to hear what "conspiracy theorists" have to say because they have been known to come up with truth as well. Most people know that the truth is something in the middle most of the time. I make my decisions there which is exactly what I did with 9/11.

In regards to my comment, you're right. I could have stated what I said differently. So I'm sorry for coming off so arrogant with that comment.

PS You know I didn't talk about rap because you like hip hop. So don't relate that. I have nothing against hip hop unless it is degrading to women that is when I dislike it.
 
Seven

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
#3,046
Jun 25, 2003
38,219
#3,046
Sarah said:
First, no one here called you unpatriotic and claims to "know it all." I tend to respect your opinions but this I can't agree with you on. I also don't appreciate being talked down to as if I have claimed to know it all. I don't form opinions on things I know nothing about and you know that. Learn to respect different opinions because I respect that I will not agree with you on everything even if you think I am crazy to believe what I believe. You and I are both educated enough to know not to believe everything that is told to us.

I question what the government has to say but, I also question what conspiracy theorists have to say. It would be stupid not to. Everyone knows about 75% of the bull shit that comes out of the conspiracy theorists' mouths is incorrect especially when it comes to things like 9/11. Their theories make sense when it comes to things like fighting a war for oil rather than to save ourselves from "weapons of mass destruction and then to liberate the Iraqi people." I also want to point out the Iraq war does not even compare to 9/11 so please make a real comparison if you want to make a point. The conspiracy that the Iraq war was really for oil was out before the war even began. I wrote my economic thesis about it 6 months before the war in Iraq by using reliable sources like the NY Times, etc which I got an A on and not failed while being called "unpatriotic" by my professor. So to even compare the ideals behind the Iraq war and 9/11 doesn't make sense.

The only research that backs up the 9/11 govt conspiracy is rap songs and unemployed filmmakers' documentaries which skew the facts to fit their message. I watched Loose Change and Loose Change II which is Loose Change with amendments because some of their points were so crazy they decided it was better to change it themselves to make their video believable. I then read an article by Popular Mechanics which proved about 90% of their video false. I also read what the government had to say as well in the 9/11 Commission Report (can't say I read all 600 pages of it but I got the gist of it). So I came to my own conclusion.

There might be some suspicious details about 9/11 but I don't think that means the government somehow convinced people to kill themselves for the sake of the Republican Party by leaving behind their whole families with no money, etc. Now I find that to be laughable.
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Not all documentaries skew the facts, Sarah. We don't know anything for sure, but it is pretty certain that the original story we got wasn't entirely correct. If you add those uncertainties to the political outcome an inside job seems plausible. I don't believe it was an inside job, but I do believe some people knew what was going on and did little to stop it.
 
Sarah

Sarah

s-doLLa
#3,047
Sep 26, 2007
2,119
#3,047
Seven said:
Not all documentaries skew the facts, Sarah. We don't know anything for sure, but it is pretty certain that the original story we got wasn't entirely correct. If you add those uncertainties to the political outcome an inside job seems plausible. I don't believe it was an inside job, but I do believe some people knew what was going on and did little to stop it.
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You are right not all documentaries skew the facts. If you saw the documentary I am referring to though, you would understand what I meant when I stated that. They are available online if you want to watch them. They are interesting but make sure to read rebuttals by scientists to their claims. I was fortunate enough to meet one of the guy's involved with the documentary since they constantly threw the documentary at all the NYU students.

I do agree with your last statement though. I believe that some people knew what was going on and did little to stop it for naivety or for personal gain I can't say. I will add again that I do not for one second think that it was an inside job though.
 
Ahmed

Ahmed

Principino
#3,048
Sep 3, 2006
47,928
#3,048
LetsBrushYourTeeth said:
I am 100% against our stance with Israel, as I see them as a terroristic nation. Not to speak for Enron, but he is far more pro-Israel than I am (meaning I do not support the country whatsoever). So to answer your question, yes, Obama's Israel stance does piss me off.

But lets be clear here - no American Presidential candidate could ever be elected if they do not support Israel. This is guaranteed. If one doesn't support the Jews, they will automatically be lobbied against and will be condemned for not only their lack of "patriotism", but also their lack of humanity due to the the holocaust. In this country, it's seen as our duty to protect the Jews for some reason.

I absolutely abhor our friendship with Israel, but I know that this is the reality of the politics in this nation. As sad as it may be, I still have to vote for Obama because he's actually intelligent and has the correct internal views for this country. But I'd just like to see Israel be a non-factor in our politics for a change.
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:agree: Israel is an issue that unites them across the political divide
 
Martin

Martin

Senior Member
#3,051
Dec 31, 2000
56,913
#3,051
Sarah said:
I question what the government has to say but, I also question what conspiracy theorists have to say. It would be stupid not to. Everyone knows about 75% of the bull shit that comes out of the conspiracy theorists' mouths is incorrect especially when it comes to things like 9/11.
Click to expand...
Let me put it this way. It's not that I'll watch one of these conspiracy movies and suddenly be convinced that what they're saying is true. It's fair to say they are speculating like crazy.

But having said that, I believe absolutely nothing of what the government is saying about this. These people's credibility with me has ran out a long time ago and with Jon Stewart and countless others confronting their lies weekly, I don't see how anyone could actually believe their story.

So you have a bunch of people with no ethics in government, telling you one thing. Then you have various individuals from the CIA and whatever refuting the official story. Then you have a bunch of film makers giving you a dozen different truths to pick from, and what's more they are poking very big holes in the official story. Let's just say I have very good reason not to buy any of them.

Bush and his people have gained tremendously from 911. They have you dancing to their "with us or without us" tune like I wouldn't believe you could make Americans obey a Fuhrer.
 
David01

David01

Senior Member
#3,057
Aug 20, 2006
2,825
#3,057
at first I thought Palin was a real milf but then I heard her talk crazy and that was enough to turn me off
what as stupid bitch, she will fit in at the White House perfectly
 
Bjerknes

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
#3,058
Mar 16, 2004
111,601
#3,058
Is anybody just gasping at watching these ridiculous smear attack ads? Especially from McCain, these ads just consist of a couple verbs combined with the typical noun used to flame the other party. As if being "Liberal" was such a horrific thing in the first place. Sadly, however, people will believe the smear ads and their votes will be skewed just because they're too lazy to read up on issues themselves.

I am Charles Manson Hitler and I approved this message.
 
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