Forgot about this one:frown:
...would you like me to explain how I come up with this? May take up a bit of space though
...would you like me to explain how I come up with this? May take up a bit of space though
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Troy (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter sallyinzaghi
- Start date
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Tell you what. I'll go away and try and get it right on the button and post it tomorrow...don't want to make a complete idiot of myself by quoting something that's wrong
But it has to do with when Alexander goes to Troy when he crosses the Dardennelles (spelling), and visits the tombs of Achilles and Ajax with his "friend" and what the historians say they do, and the excuses they use for doing it
But it has to do with when Alexander goes to Troy when he crosses the Dardennelles (spelling), and visits the tombs of Achilles and Ajax with his "friend" and what the historians say they do, and the excuses they use for doing it
I've just found that quote about the bear hug.
Hehe..check this out:-
From Robert Graves "The Greek Myths"...Nine Years of War:
"Now the city was not fated to fall if Troilus could attain the age of twenty. Some say that Achiiles fell in love with him as they fought together, and 'I will kill you', he said, 'unless you yield to my caressess!'
Troilus fled and took shelter in the temple of Thymbrean Apollo; but Achilles cared nothing for the god's wrath and since Troilus remained coy.......he lured him out by offering a gift of doves, and that Troilus died with crushed ribs and livid face, in such bear-like fashion did Achilles make love"
He should have listened to the moto to beware Greeks "bear"ing gifts
sorry:dontcare::dontcare:
Hehe
..check this out:-From Robert Graves "The Greek Myths"...Nine Years of War:
"Now the city was not fated to fall if Troilus could attain the age of twenty. Some say that Achiiles fell in love with him as they fought together, and 'I will kill you', he said, 'unless you yield to my caressess!'
Troilus fled and took shelter in the temple of Thymbrean Apollo; but Achilles cared nothing for the god's wrath and since Troilus remained coy.......he lured him out by offering a gift of doves, and that Troilus died with crushed ribs and livid face, in such bear-like fashion did Achilles make love"
He should have listened to the moto to beware Greeks "bear"ing gifts
sorry:dontcare::dontcare:
++ [ originally posted by Roverbhoy ] ++
Jeez...this sounds like a real stinker for the purists...which Ajax was it though?
Jeez...this sounds like a real stinker for the purists...which Ajax was it though?
In the movie they only show one Ajax.. and I believe it was "Ajax the Greater" because of the way he looks.. you know, huge and all..
now, in the Illiad he did fight Hector and wounded him without getting injured himself.. but, in the movie they showed Hector kill him.. :groan:
Nah...couldn't afford to major in history. Just an extra-curriculum cross -faculty class for extra brownie points....you were in with students from all kinds of different courses. Early Greece, Classical Greece, The Hellenistic World, The Roman Republic, and the Roman Empire.
When I was a young lad and you wanted to do say law or medicine at Uni you needed to be fluent in Latin. My high school had both Latin and Greek classes together with classical study class. I believe this has all changed now and a knowledge of the Classical world and Latin is no longer required.
Now I realy feel old, although I'm still younger than Brad Pitt I suppose
When I was a young lad and you wanted to do say law or medicine at Uni you needed to be fluent in Latin. My high school had both Latin and Greek classes together with classical study class. I believe this has all changed now and a knowledge of the Classical world and Latin is no longer required.
Now I realy feel old, although I'm still younger than Brad Pitt I suppose
Sorry about this but I completely forgot last night that the Celtic – Seville game was on…I’m just back and a little drunk so forgive me for not getting my act together. I’ll just wing it…this is just the bones of what I had intended to write..ok then…let’s start with Achilles and Patroclus.
After reading everything I can get my hands on about the Iliad I can say that there is nothing I can see which mentions any kind of love between these men other than what is referred to as heroic friendship ( not my choice of words ). Considering that Pindar, Æschylus and Sophocles spoke freely about paiderastia, I can find no reason why Homer would not mention it. After all, as is agreed here, paiderastia was a freely accepted way of conducting ones self (at the time of Homer), and people wouldn’t bat an eye if Achilles and Patroclus did practice it…so why would Homer deliberately fail to mention it? Could it be because paiderastia never happened between Achilles and Petroclus?
So how did this belief that Achilles and Patroclus were not only friends, but lovers, become commonly accepted?
It was not until round about the time of Alexander The Great, centuries later, that any suggestion of anything out of the ordinary between these two legends surfaced. Alexander had a close friend called Hephaistion. When Alexander came to power he became referred to as ‘Achilles reborn’. Sometimes he was introduced to nobility as such. He also carried with him at all times his own personal copy of the Iliad. When he traveled to Troy at the beginning of his conquests, he and Hephaistion paid their own ‘special’ type of tribute to the memory of Achilles and Patroclus at their tombs. Alexander stripped naked and ran to the tomb of Achilles. Hephaistion did the same and ran to the tomb of Petroclus. From that time onwards they were both acknowledged as Achilles and Petroclus reborn. Their paiderastia was explained as displaying a similar emotional attachment that Achilles had for Petroclus. This changed later to the SAME type of emotional attachment.
Achilles and Petroclus, from that time on therefore, have been tarred as being lovers to match Alexander and Hephaistion, not the other way around.
Other similarities helped to perpetuate this:-
Alexander trusted Hephaistion more than any other advisor, just as Achilles did Petroclus.
Alexander gave Hephaistion command of his cavalry, just as Achilles gave Patroclus command of his Mermydions.
Alexander gave a fantastic funeral for Hephaistion when he tragically died, just as Achilles did for Patroclus.
Alexander died before returning home, just at the moment of complete triumph, as Achilles.
Given these facts then, why not Achilles and Petroclus actively engaging in paiderastia? After all, it seems the logical conclusion. Alexander had a male lover, so why not Achilles?
Well, to begin with, Achilles developed his emotional attachment to Petroclus from a very young age. They grow up together, were educated together, and fought together. They spent virtually all their youth together. But wouldn’t being together so long be the perfect reason to form a lovers tryst? No. Why? Because paiderastia , as introduced by the Dorians, had not at the time of the Iliad been accepted as thee thing to do. It was not till later that this became ‘fashionable’. Homer attempted to show that this attachment was purely noble by specifically not mentioning any type of friendship, other than heroic friendship.
But of course, the Iliad is myth.
As there was no written language at the time of the Trojan War, and considering that it is still not even an accepted fact that the Trojan War took place, or that Achilles, Patroclus, Odysseus, Ajax, etc, actually lived, we can all write what we want, or make our own suggestions, without anyone being able to conclusively prove us wrong…and without the fear of legal action from those libelled ..,hehe
See ya people
