The Return of The King (2 Viewers)

[Roverbhoy]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
My fav remains TTT, but hey this was great. We all knew (or rther those that have already read the book before) that TROTK as a story wasn't as good as the previous two (it's still great) but IMO this is the perfect ending to a perfect triolgy. Well done Jackson, the secnes are breath taking, the effects smooth and the battles epic. I seriously don't understand the disappointments; even critics gave it a great review. Anyway remember this is just one third of a trilogy, you have to see it as one not as three parts.

This deserves the Oscar definitely

Hey ZZ, hows it hangin'?

Glad you liked the film and enjoyed reading your opinion, but a bit surprised about some of your references to the book TROTK. You ask us to remember that this film is just one of a trilogy, but forget that the book TROTK wasn't in fact a seperate book to begin with. Tolkein wrote the full book as one volume and not as a trilogy, but his publishers insisted that the book be split into three, or it wouldn't sell a copy...he didn't even decide were the splits would be... so the books should also be considered together and not as seperate entities.

Also, I agree that many scenes are breathtaking... so I say give them the oscars for best special effects, music, costumes, and so on.

But can you really put your hand on your heart and say that the script, acting and editing were "best film of the year quality", as these have the most weighting for the Academy? How many best films did the Star Wars series produce?...plenty of Oscars for this and that but how many big dogs?


I'm very dissapointed because I've read this book so many times for over twenty years and love and cherish it's message. Everything about the book works for me.
I grew up being told this couldn't be filmed, and then along comes Jackson with a budget the size of the GNP of a small country, with the best effects people, artists, the lot. I was ecstatic... but then he decides to change the heart and sole of TLOTR for...er.. whatever purposes, and forgot to spend some cash on the script.
Now I can accept scenes and characters being deleted, as in The Fellowship, I can accept the promotion of some of the characters and there importance (Arwen), but I can't look at these films and accept that they are the best interpretation that we could manage for 250 mill. An opportunity missed:down:
Some of the additional scenes which were added at the cost of actual scenes are shockingly poor, and if they had just filmed what was there all the time in the original writting, it would have been so much better.
Some of the most noble and memorable scenes of the 750 thousand word three volumes didn't even get filmed, never mind end up on the cutting room floor, such as when Aragorn addresses the hords of orcs upon the battlements of Helms Deep...missing;... the confrontation with Saurons embassy before the Black Gates...awol;... Aragorn wrestling the palantire to his will and so on;...many wonderful scenes not even deemed good enough for filming...ugh

If I directed a ten-twelve hour film about the second world war in which Patton was a coward, Montgomery was a Canadian, the Americans fought the battle of El Alamein, D-Day didn't happen, the Russians didn't take part in anything, the Italians were innocent bystanders, the Japonese gave three days warning before attacking Pearl Harbor, and someone said to me...just a minute, this isn't what happened in WW2, and I replied...For God sakes there is no satifying you people....I said I was doing a series of films "based" on WW2, not actually about WW2. The start and finish are the same, may of the key stones are the same...come on...don't the special effects make up for the minor variations from what is in print? What do you rabid rabble of nerds want from me...Jeez ;... do you think people would say Oh right..ok man, no problems?

Now I know WW2 is history, and not a story, but many people who go to the movies don't even know who fought in WW2, and could believe this to be the truth... and history would then just become Pulp History. (Cowboys and Indians for example). I don't want this to happen to something that means so much to me.

Hopefully in fifteen/twenty years a purist will come along and do it right...

But hey, hats off to Jackson for getting things up and running in the first place... and some of the scenes, as you say, are magical and worth the twenty year wait for me...so I thank him for these... and I guess I'll just fast forward to these bits on the EVDVD and miss out the crap in between...hehe

 

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[Zizou]

Nice post Rover.

I remember two years ago, when I went to watch the first LOTR, I was so excited. I didn't know what was coming my way as I avoided watching any trailers. I was actually trembling and had to hold the hand of my girlfriend strongly before the movie started.

I personally am very happy and glad with the way Jackson adapted LOTR and I can't imagine anyone doing a better job than he did.

I don't want to go into details but as I said before, Jackson did a great job and I embrace his work of art and I look forward to buying the box set of dvds with the extra minutes.

 

[Zambrotta]

Strange that so many people were disappointed with this movie. I haven't heard a negative voice about it before. I personally thought it was brilliant.

 

[Roverbhoy]

++ [ originally posted by Zizou ] ++
I was actually trembling and had to hold the hand of my girlfriend strongly before the movie started.

hehe...used to go to the scarry movie to get the chicks to hold my hand for the very same reason:devil:...ah... the movies, what'd we do without them


peace man

 

[Roverbhoy]

++ [ originally posted by Zambrotta ] ++
Strange that so many people were disappointed with this movie. I haven't heard a negative voice about it before. I personally thought it was brilliant.

many people I know think it's the best entertainment since seeing totti laugh for the first time:totti:


I'm just letting of steam buddy...in time I'll get used to it I guess.

See ya

 

[Zambrotta]

But Roverbhoy. if you look at it just as a movie not a movie based on the Lord of the rings, would you still say it is a bad film?

 

[Roverbhoy]

If I knew nothing of the book and was watching it as a member of the Academy I would say that it has superb effects, looks wonderful, great musical score, some outstanding camera work (Shelobs stalking of Frodo for example), a real star in gollum... but overall spoiled by poor editing, week script and some really wooden performances from a number of the main supporting actors (not Sir Ian McK however, who should be nominated for...something; he shawn brightly; as did Sean Astin...but only at times).

As I wrote earlier in the thread... about 7.75 / 10:frown:

 

[Martin]

Excellent movie! This trilogy is a masterpiece and I don't even like fantasy.

 

[«ƒÕ®zå JüV€»]

one of the best fanatsy movies ever to be made ..hopefully it gets more acadmeys than last year "cross fingers"

 

[sallyinzaghi]

i thought the ending was a bit draggy.
overall it was okay, i just preferred the first two to this one.

 

[Ferrari^M]

Roverbhoy i see your point, i felt the same i read the book, but each person that reads the book has an image of his own and Jackson has his.

Also he had to turn it into a movie, i'm sure it wasn't easy for him to do it, to cut things out of the book, but it is impossible to even film the 10% of everything in the book.

Plus i found that some things that he changed were actually very clever being a film and not a book, e.g arwen presenting in dreams, frodo senting sam away and then being rescued by him, things that i said wow this would be great if it was in the book.

IMO this is how good movies can get. The best i ever saw. Other people will have their favourites but for me this trilogy was the best thing in cinematic history.

It's a definite Best Movie Oscan maybe Best Director and other Oscars (graphics music etc.) IMO

Oh and sallyinzighi about the ending being draggy, some of my friends told me that too, i would say that too if i hadn't read the book, reading the book if the ending wasn't in i would be devastated it would be like the whole movie had no meaning.

The Extented Edition DVD for ROTK is rumoured to last around 5 hours. I can't wait. It will complete the puzzle of the movie, since he left things out just because it was too long.

Long Live LORD OF THE RINGS

Read the book if you can everyone

 

[Roverbhoy]

Great post FM

As you say each person who reads the book has their own image.

My thinking on Frodo and Sam though is that, in the book, even with the ominous power that the precence of the Ring is, it still couldn't break the bond of true friendship that existed between these two life long friends, no matter what is thrown at them; especially Sam's devotion to his master Frodo. This is one of the enduring constants throughout the book. He (Jackson) decided to break this bond and therefore destroyed one of the main messages Tolkein gave to us through his works...that friendship and fellowship can overcome the greatest odds and the worst that evil can come up with....Frodo failed the test even before he gets to Mount Doom:down:

But, hey, at the end of the day he brought it all together and he makes the decisions, so if he wants to change things it's up to him.

Hopefully more people will read the books now just as you also wish.

And I agree with you on another thing....Forza The Lord Of The Rings:cheesy:



See ya

 

[Gandalf]

I won't add anything here.. Roverboy I understand your disappointment.. Ferrari^M, you took the words out of my tongue.. that what I was trying to say..

 

[violette]

And how about this review?
I like it.

Movie Review: The Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King
In Which The Captains Of The West Debate The Completion Of The Film Epic
posted December 25, 2003

The Scene: Gandalf, Aragorn, Imrahil, Eomer and the sons of Elrond are joined by Faramir, Sam and Bilbo.


Gandalf: My lords, the theater screens of the modern age are spread far and wide, and not even the greatest of novelists can compete with their reach. An author can, maybe, by his will choose what things are allowed to be filmed, or cause a small measure of fidelity to be taken. Nonetheless it cannot be doubted that when viewers see our story as presented on film, they will believe they are seeing that which truly was.
Well, the Tale is now told, from first to last. Here we all are, and here is the third film. But we have not yet come any nearer to an agreement on its quality. What shall we say of it?

Aragorn: Let none now reject the counsels of Gandalf, whose long labours forced the deeds which made these films worth making. Glad I am to hear and see again the tale of our fellowship. Speak no evil of the Three Films! They are wondrous things to behold, whatever their faults may be. For my part I choose approval. Nonetheless I do not claim to command any man. Let others choose as they will. I will only say this: never in truth have I tossed a dwarf, or grasped and shoved a hobbit.

Elladan: Powerless and frail is how I deem these films, for I do not admire the facsimiles of men. Nor do I fear the taunts of the multitudes who are loth to hear words against their epic. It is an epic, yes, but for the eye only.

Eomer: As for myself, I have little knowledge of the films of man, but I need it not. This I know, and it is enough, that as my friend Aragorn has succoured me and my people, so I will heed his counsel. I choose approval.

Elladan: But Eomer, what of Theoden? Have you forgotten the contempt in his voice when the beacons of Gondor called for the help of Rohan? How different it was from the text, where he said, "But say to Denethor that even if Rohan itself felt no peril, still we would come to his aid."

Eomer: I have considered this. It was an ill turn, but not a fatal one. I also marked the absence of the Huorns, and the Woses, and the voice of Saruman at Orthanc. And you, Elladan son of Elrond, were absent from the film entirely. Could this be the source of your rancor?

Elladan: Not all of our tale could be shown, and the exclusion of Elrohir and I is an understandable one. Nay, I feel no rancor. And there is one part of the films that I would call genius, and that is the very first part of the first film, when the origin of the ring is described. Afterwards the story falters.

Bilbo: With apologies to the Dunadan, all that glitters is not gold, that's what you're saying. Elves may thrive on speech, but I am only an old hobbit. Perhaps we should see the film again?

Gandalf: Of course, my dear Bilbo, you may see it again, but now is not the time. The films, it would seem, have no power over Elladan, but from the rest of you I detect at least a conditional approval. There is much to admire, but also much to mourn.

Aragorn: And much has been invented. Your fancy staffwork on the shins of Denethor was a sight to behold!

Gandalf: Ah! And evidently my spanking sent him over the cliff?

Elladan: Your jest will not be accepted by defenders of the film. They will say, 'What do you know? You are not a filmmaker.'

Gandalf: And I will say that after nearly a hundred years of filmmaking, the craft has improved greatly in the areas of set-making, costuming and computerization. But the ability to tell a story has not improved. This is especially so when adapting classic novels to film. Filmmakers cannot resist the temptation to tinker. I prefer Denethor where he belongs, prostate on the pyre, holding the palantir.

Faramir: Much of the tinkering was to add action, which played to the strength of the filmmakers.

Gandalf: Yes, choreographing action is easier than fleshing out dialogue. Consider my duel with Saruman in the first film. Why, it might have been a scene from Harry Potter! Two wizards dueling, though with staffs instead of wands.

Aragorn: Enough of dueling and tinkering! What are your thoughts of the characters? It is to the credit of the filmmakers that no new characters have been contrived, at least none that I noticed. All seem to be taken from the text.

Imrahil: I am intrigued by the depiction of Gothmog, the lieutenant of Morgul, who led the assault on Minas Tirith from the field out of Osgiliath.

Eomer: You speak for me also. Nay, I felt I was looking at Sloth, the creature from The Goonies, a film from the year 1985 of the modern age.

Faramir: Now we come to strange matters. For this is not the first shadow of The Goonies that has crept into this rendering.

Sam: Begging your pardon, I know where it's crept into. It's in the second film, and it's when my character gives a speech of encouragement to Frodo at Osgiliath. I've only just remembered, sir.

Faramir: Yes, the speech and the setting were contrived by the filmmakers, using words cobbled from other chapters. For myself, I could not help but remember the young actor Astin, who gave a similar speech as the child Mikey in The Goonies. "Don't you realize," said Mikey, "the next time we see sky it'll be over another town....down here it's our time. It's our time down here." Afterwards the Goonies wavered no more.

Aragorn: Now come! All filmmakers draw from a limited bag of tricks. If we were to compare all the scenes that bring to mind other films, we should still be sitting here when Winter had passed into Spring.

Gimli: Wait a minute! I've thought of another - one of your scenes, Gandalf. It's in the second film, when the camera zooms into your eye after you threw down the Balrog. That has been seen before.

Gandalf: Yes, Gimli, most recently at the beginning of the film Chicago. And other films too numerous to mention. It is a common technique.

Eomer: Common, yes, but effective.

Elladan: I can name another. The destruction of the ring of the Dark Lord, where Frodo struggled with the creature Gollum at the Cracks of Doom, has been embellished and extended.

Sam: Ninnyhammers! Noodles! Mr. Frodo didn't fall into the Crack with that slinking Stinker. He fell to his knees and I picked him up and carried him to the door.

Elladan: Not any more! Now the world believes that after losing his finger and the ring to Gollum, Frodo began a second struggle, and toppled with the creature over the edge . . .

Imrahil: . . . where he conveniently found a handhold to dangle from. It is a visual cliche that filmmakers seem to be fond of. Why, it was even added to the flying car scene in the last Harry Potter film. Filmmakers can be diligent with their cliches, whatever else one may say.

Bilbo: Very well, very well, Master Prince. Say no more! It is a good film, and none the worse for having been twisted and teased from the text. If you want to know, I have only one quibble. Tell me: what do you think of my character as shown during the ride to the Havens?

Gimli: You were scarcely recognizable, Master hobbit. Your face had undergone a change that would baffle a Ranger.

Imrahil: The change was felt to be needed, no doubt, to show that your age had caught up with the passing of the Ring. But I could not help but smile, for I was reminded of the face of Miracle Max, the Billy Crystal character in The Princess Bride.

Sam: Well, here we are! Here are the Films, and it looks to me as if they are about the best we are ever going to get. My word, but the Gaffer would have a thing or two to say, if he saw me on the big screen!


-translated from the Common Speech of Middle Earth by Michael Locke


http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_44853.asp

 

[violette]

++ [ originally posted by Roverbhoy ] ++


---------

Now I know WW2 is history, and not a story, but many people who go to the movies don't even know who fought in WW2, and could believe this to be the truth... and history would then just become Pulp History. (Cowboys and Indians for example). I don't want this to happen to something that means so much to me.

Hopefully in fifteen/twenty years a purist will come along and do it right...

But hey, hats off to Jackson for getting things up and running in the first place... and some of the scenes, as you say, are magical and worth the twenty year wait for me...so I thank him for these... and I guess I'll just fast forward to these bits on the EVDVD and miss out the crap in between...hehe

Are we already talking about a remake?

But I do like Sir Ian McKellen, viggo, orlando and co.:down:
and I don't want waiting for fifteen/twenty years that long.
3~5 years is more better

 

[«ƒÕ®zå JüV€»]

ian mckellen is amazin...
i mean he played gandalf very well...

 

[Ferrari^M]

Just read it today, and i liked it a lot...

TOOKISH : ROTK REVIEW
Peter Jackson's LotR: Return of the King -- His Trilogy Completed, His Vision Fulfilled
Peter Jackson has done it again. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King is nothing less then an epic success, its brilliance and passion shining as brightly as the Phial of Galadriel. Reactions from fans that we read on the Internet range from euphoric to depressed to offended, depending on the perspective and experience of the viewer.

Simply put, for the Tolkien purists, I say this: take what is, expect no more and certainly no less. One cannot simply walk into the theater and expect to see the images that Professor Tolkien hacked out on his typewriter letter by letter -- which later became imprinted on our minds in youth, adolescence, and adulthood -- appear the way they come into the imagination. It's just not a possibility. It's also unrealistic to expect a movie production of this magnitude to employ Tolkien's text to the letter; there must be a final offering that is accessible to a wide-ranging global audience, from those who have read the story to those who may not even be able to read. That means a story that paces well, appeals to both genders and a spread of age groups, and contains essential elements of character development, relationship arcs, plot revelations, putting at risk who and what the audience holds dear through action sequences or by other means, and a satisfactory conclusion of events.

My theory is that the LotR filmgoer must be prepared to accept what is. And oh, what IS! To be honest I was let down by The Two Towers, perhaps expecting more fealty to the original text, and it took me many views to get past that initial impression. However, adjusting my expectations to match the reality of what the film offers was more about me than about Peter Jackson or anyone else who created these great works. I was prepared for the same feeling for my first viewing of Return of the King, and in doing so, perhaps that helped me to not be disappointed in any way. Sure, there are things that I would have preferred to be included, or dropped out, or done differently… but the cup is half full, dear readers, and at the same time, it runs over.

I have seen RotK four times now. The first was the best, as I was fortunate to be at the Trilogy Tuesday marathon. Seeing the extended FotR and TTT together with RotK was for me a little dream come true. Connecting the films in one day helped me feel the bonds between characters to the extent that the depth of the emotional acting, the fine nuances of facial expression in muscle, jaw, mouth and eye, was magnificent. When Frodo tells Sam to go home, it is like being hit by a freight train; when Smeágol is duped once again by Gollum his face can be read like a map; Pippin's fear and Merry's frustration and anger are palpable at their parting; and when the Fellowship perceive that the Quest is accomplished, and that Frodo and Sam must have surely died in the end, the heart is pierced with a mixture of sorrow and joy.

Personally I think that Elijah Wood has been an ideal Frodo. I think he is overlooked and under-recognized for his efforts. The spectrum of emotions he experiences and thereby evokes in the audience is deep and wide. From his last look of innocence as he pulls the Ring out of Bilbo's old trunk in FotR to the crazed struggle with Gollum at the edge of doom, Elijah Wood has had to dig deep and deliver time and time again. In RotK I am also impressed with the work of Andy Serkis and Sean Astin, as well as Dominic and Billy. Billy Boyd's work greatly reveals the depth of transformation his character Pippin undergoes and I was pleased that he had so much screen time in RotK. I celebrate the work of each and every member of the cast for their performance in RotK and the films as a group.

Indeed, my hat is off to the cast and crew for the work they've done on the trilogy. It's hard to truly appreciate the challenges faced by this group of actors, from the culture and emotional shock of relocating one's life to the physical hardships of filming in extreme weather conditions under all those pounds and hours of makeup and costume. The crew too withstood great physical and mental challenges, including the stress of timelines, story revisions, issues with New Line, and inevitable technical and human glitches, to name only a few. Then of course there was the incessant fandom microscoping every rumor, sneaking onto sets, even going through the trash for bits of casting calls… and they put up with us marvelously, marshalling our passions, keeping us coming for more, and even using us toward their own ends.

Each time I see these films in the theater I just have to applaud when the credits for WETA roll upscreen. It's been my great fortune to meet a handful of this team and they are an amazing group of talented, creative, friendly, and funny as hell people. I believe the feat they have accomplished in RotK and the entire trilogy is much of the magic that enables the entire production to capture audiences and take them on the Journey. The details, the obsessive eye to subtlety, the continuity and internal consistency within cultures, locations and scenarios, all come together to create a Middle-earth that seems so very undeniably real. I'm amazed at the huge pains and expenses that went into this aspect of the production -- how much time went into the Moria orcs, the Corsairs, the sets and scenery that only grace the screen for scant moments? It is the kind of thing that is done so artfully well that it's easy to take for granted.

I guess I've strayed way off a review for RotK and am instead looking back at these movies as a single production, much as Tolkien's story is really one book that belongs between two covers. It is hard for me to separate the films from one another and I'm waxing a bit nostalgic with the close of the trilogy, as are many of us at this time. Pardon the indulgence!

I remember in 1999 having discussions with friends both online and off about how the movies might change the reading of the book for ourselves and for future generations of readers. I worried that being so immersed in someone else's imagery would taint my own. Now I find myself greatly anticipating some quiet time to reread this great story, believing that the movies will only enrich the text. I did not guess that the films would in their turn compliment and deepen my love for the text itself. Instead of feeling pangs of loss that the film trilogy has nearly come to an end, I find myself excited by the prospect of delving back into the book. With the booming voice of John Rhys-Davies ringing in the back of my mind, the delicate tapestries and carpentry of Rivendell on the back of my eyelids, and so many amazing images of the land beating in my heart -- just to name a few examples -- I believe that future readings of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings will be richer and more rewarding because of the work, the passion, and the professionalism that went into crafting Jackson's Lord of the Rings.

In the end it all comes back to Peter Jackson. Everyone who played a part, from the Flying Trestles to the guy who schlepped the boom mike through whatever ungodly location, had to have been touched by his hand. The arm of PJ has grown long! A director and producer live a gestalt sort of lifestyle: they are the sum of their parts, and they are equally responsible and deserving of credit or shame. The incredible work of Howard Shore, the sound and lighting technicians, the post-productions crews and companies, the special effects wizards… it all points in one direction, right back at Peter Jackson.

Gaffer Gamgee is fond of saying that the third time counts for all. If Return of the King did not live up to The Two Towers and The Fellowship of the Ring (my personal favorite of the three films, and the books for that matter), the sense of this creation as a film trilogy would shatter. It is the incredible vision and professionalism of people like Peter Jackson and Richard Taylor who have the talent, passion, and just plain courage to see a masterpiece like this come to fruition. I thank them for their great good works.

Tolkien says that all things must come to an end… so too, this essay, and this wanderer's ramblings. I will forever hold in gratitude all the many people who brought this story to film, and I thank, too, my friends from TheOneRing.net who have enabled be to touch the flame so closely. Thank you for the experience of a lifetime. May we all be the better for it, and may we remember one another clearly and kindly until the end of days.

Farewell, wherever you fare.

 

[gray]

(I haven't read the books)

I watched TROTK on the same night i came back from Thailand, and the subsequent jetlag probably reduced my enjoyment of the movie somewhat... i had a few 10-second sleeps in between. The battles were very epic and it looked like they were just gonna start fighting for about 2.5 hours, since the battle seemed to begin so quickly.

The scale was so damn huge (100 guys being killed in one swoop) compared to TTT, in which i thought Helms Deep was a huge battle. I wish the final battle had some kind of 'official' beginning, like in TTT when the first orc gets shot, the fun begins...

I agree, the end did drag on a bit, and my tiredness did nothing to help that. Maybe I'll go watch it again... either that, or i could just watch it on DVD

 

[Desmond]

the ending was at least 25 minutes....but any less would have been an insult to the book the return of the king, of which the ending made up half.

 

[Tom]

It was a bit of an anti climax for me. It was always going to be the most difficult to pull off I suppose, the first two were brilliant films and there was so much to pack in to this one. It was still a very good film no doubts about it but it seemed to lack some f the magic from the other two..not really sure how to put it.

Plus there were a few ratgher silly moments

-Legolas taking on the oliphaunt (sp) by himself and just running down it as if it were easy!

-The nazgul who had seemed invincible for the entire film suddenly getting battered by some eagles

-Eowyn killing the witch king does this happen in the book I'm sure it doesn't..I need to read them again!

-It doesn't tell you that Eowyn and Faramir get married

-You don't see anything of Saruman, just a few seconds would have been enough! (Then again I already knew this was not in the film)

-The ghost army just runing through everything and destroying about 70,000 orcs in approximately 6 minutes

other than that it was good though