Sorry for the length; I felt obliged to defend my position... and no, I don't expect anyone to read the whole thing...
I find it incredibly amusing that you probably consider yours to be a significant response.
As I have posted before, I wore 88 because 8 is my favorite number.
However, as a Wideout, 8 is not a traditional number. At the time the #80 was taken by a senior, and Marvin Harrison wore 88, so I snagged it. I'm an old school 49ers/Jerry Rice fan (hence my love for number #80), but Marvin was class back in the day, too.
Oh yeah, I wore 88. That's really something to think about... really interesting…
That number has held so much racially based significance for me, and I'm such a racist bastard, that my last roommate was Jewish, and my current roommate is black. I'm just a terrible, callous, ignorant, racist pig.
Nice attempted deflection Seven, but the reality is that you're the bigot and borderline (+) racist here, not I. That's been demonstrated frequently enough in these forums.
I certainly won't be continuing any 'conversations' with you in the future. It's not worth the energy.
Bianconero, I understand your point, and I generally agree with the sentiment behind your comment – people need to make an attempt to understand, and take into consideration the feelings of others, especially in highly sensitive matters such as the one we’re now discussing. Of course, there's an extent to everything. Flaunting symbols that are painful to others is not something that I would typically practice, recommend, or condone. I'm a compassionate and understanding individual (at least I strive to be), and I treat those around me with respect.
However, I do not operate by absolutes; I find the fact that athletes wear the number 88 to be totally acceptable, provided that there is no obvious, known connection to Neo-Nazism.
As far as 88 goes, well, for me it's mostly just a fucking number. It's had many, MANY different meanings attributed to it prior to some douchebag Neo-Nazi's prescribing their own twisted value to it, and it will have many more meanings, across a variety of cultures, attributed to it as time continues.
While I accept and respect that people may have sensitivities about this subject, from a personal standpoint I refuse to simply 'give' this number to the Neo-Nazi cause - so to speak. Fuck those pathetic, degenerate, racist cunts.
Furthermore, when the general public continually references that attributed meaning to the #88, especially in completely unrelated situations such as this, Neo-Nazis end up getting exactly what they desire; a reminder of their notoriety, publicity, any type of recognition - their name on your lips.
I do not EVER look at an athlete wearing the number 88 and think of the player, or that number, in a racialist context. I just don't, and I do not intend on starting such a personal trend now. I do not believe that prescribed Neo-Nazi value for the #88 has any place in athletics.
Now one could say that's because I’m a white, a middle class male, because I haven’t been personally attacked by Neo-Nazis (or been the subject of considerable racism), because of my country of origin, or relative geographic location, etc., etc; say whatever you like. I have my own personal rationale, and circumstances are simply what they are.
I do not care to make deluded linkages between two subjects that are not fundamentally intertwined. Racism is far from a necessary, or desirable component of athletics, and I choose to leave that variable out of the sporting equation, whenever it is not readily apparent.
You can inject an overly simplified, and hyper-politically correct statement into this equation if you like; far more often than not, the statement that you provided would represent the 'morally correct,’ or sensible thing to do. Like most dogmas, it contains a degree of social value, and I can certainly appreciate that.
I simply don't believe in absolutes.
Anyway, education AND communication are of paramount importance when considering topics such as these.
Just because something has been given a definition by one group, does not automatically, or necessarily mean that I accept that prescribed meaning as being THE meaning, or having significance relevant to the situation (given the context of this particular example).
I would never agree with someone walking around Europe (for example), sporting a swastika, pontificating to the masses about its alternative meaning, and demanding that people respect it’s incredibly long, religious history. I would consider that to be ridiculous (especially because I do not subscribe to any of those religions), self-serving, antagonistic, and in general, extremely inconsiderate.
However, 88 is not a swastika, or the like - it’s a commonly used number (Across many, many cultures) - and in my opinion, Athletes who wear that number should not be considered to be referencing, or condoning racism, or inciting the type of hatred that comes with that particular territory.
Anyway, I will continue to judge each of these situations individually, based upon the positions, or values that I can discern from analyzing the information that is at hand.
Peace to the masses.
I find it incredibly amusing that you probably consider yours to be a significant response.
As I have posted before, I wore 88 because 8 is my favorite number.
However, as a Wideout, 8 is not a traditional number. At the time the #80 was taken by a senior, and Marvin Harrison wore 88, so I snagged it. I'm an old school 49ers/Jerry Rice fan (hence my love for number #80), but Marvin was class back in the day, too.
Oh yeah, I wore 88. That's really something to think about... really interesting…
That number has held so much racially based significance for me, and I'm such a racist bastard, that my last roommate was Jewish, and my current roommate is black. I'm just a terrible, callous, ignorant, racist pig.
Nice attempted deflection Seven, but the reality is that you're the bigot and borderline (+) racist here, not I. That's been demonstrated frequently enough in these forums.
I certainly won't be continuing any 'conversations' with you in the future. It's not worth the energy.
Bianconero, I understand your point, and I generally agree with the sentiment behind your comment – people need to make an attempt to understand, and take into consideration the feelings of others, especially in highly sensitive matters such as the one we’re now discussing. Of course, there's an extent to everything. Flaunting symbols that are painful to others is not something that I would typically practice, recommend, or condone. I'm a compassionate and understanding individual (at least I strive to be), and I treat those around me with respect.
However, I do not operate by absolutes; I find the fact that athletes wear the number 88 to be totally acceptable, provided that there is no obvious, known connection to Neo-Nazism.
As far as 88 goes, well, for me it's mostly just a fucking number. It's had many, MANY different meanings attributed to it prior to some douchebag Neo-Nazi's prescribing their own twisted value to it, and it will have many more meanings, across a variety of cultures, attributed to it as time continues.
While I accept and respect that people may have sensitivities about this subject, from a personal standpoint I refuse to simply 'give' this number to the Neo-Nazi cause - so to speak. Fuck those pathetic, degenerate, racist cunts.
Furthermore, when the general public continually references that attributed meaning to the #88, especially in completely unrelated situations such as this, Neo-Nazis end up getting exactly what they desire; a reminder of their notoriety, publicity, any type of recognition - their name on your lips.
I do not EVER look at an athlete wearing the number 88 and think of the player, or that number, in a racialist context. I just don't, and I do not intend on starting such a personal trend now. I do not believe that prescribed Neo-Nazi value for the #88 has any place in athletics.
Now one could say that's because I’m a white, a middle class male, because I haven’t been personally attacked by Neo-Nazis (or been the subject of considerable racism), because of my country of origin, or relative geographic location, etc., etc; say whatever you like. I have my own personal rationale, and circumstances are simply what they are.
I do not care to make deluded linkages between two subjects that are not fundamentally intertwined. Racism is far from a necessary, or desirable component of athletics, and I choose to leave that variable out of the sporting equation, whenever it is not readily apparent.
You can inject an overly simplified, and hyper-politically correct statement into this equation if you like; far more often than not, the statement that you provided would represent the 'morally correct,’ or sensible thing to do. Like most dogmas, it contains a degree of social value, and I can certainly appreciate that.
I simply don't believe in absolutes.
Anyway, education AND communication are of paramount importance when considering topics such as these.
Just because something has been given a definition by one group, does not automatically, or necessarily mean that I accept that prescribed meaning as being THE meaning, or having significance relevant to the situation (given the context of this particular example).
I would never agree with someone walking around Europe (for example), sporting a swastika, pontificating to the masses about its alternative meaning, and demanding that people respect it’s incredibly long, religious history. I would consider that to be ridiculous (especially because I do not subscribe to any of those religions), self-serving, antagonistic, and in general, extremely inconsiderate.
However, 88 is not a swastika, or the like - it’s a commonly used number (Across many, many cultures) - and in my opinion, Athletes who wear that number should not be considered to be referencing, or condoning racism, or inciting the type of hatred that comes with that particular territory.
Anyway, I will continue to judge each of these situations individually, based upon the positions, or values that I can discern from analyzing the information that is at hand.
Peace to the masses.
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