The NHL Thread (15 Viewers)

Pegi

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2019
273
Yeah, almost retired Bourque a real selling point. And Selanne and Kariya were there for one year, lol, after Roy retired, and pretty clearly didn't win a cup. Plus talking about Tanguay, Drury, Foote, and Deadmarsh as something special :lol:

Good rubbish. :baus:

The most important records:

Roy - 3 Conn Smythe (only player with 3, only player to win it with two different teams)
Brodeur - 0 Conn Smythe

https://thehockeywriters.com/exposing-martin-brodeur-the-nhls-most-overrated-goalie/

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Brodeur only played with hall of famers like Scott Stevens and Scott Niedermayer for all 3 of his cup wins, and others for one or two... Mogilny, Nieuwendyk, Fetisov, Elias, Lemieux, Daneyko, etc. Such scrubs.
Man, Avs bought all the players and spent millions of dollars more than Devils did before the lockout, that's the whole point. Devils have never had 100p player in their history, Avs and Red wings have had multiple of those, alongside with hall of fame defenseman. Devils from like 1995-2004 was competitive as anybody, but last 10 years when Brodeur played there, they were never the favourites or anything. They had no hall of fame defenseman, they had no hall of fame forwards, only thing they had was hall of fame goalie who kept them in the playoff race, when the old core was gone. Roy in other hand jumped the ship to a money team, got 2 of his cups in there, which is something Brodeur never did.

All the Brodeurs cup runs he had Conn smythe worthy stats, but maybe there was someone better or maybe not, it's still voting based and people see things differently. Conn Smythe, Hart, Vezina, Norris etc are all voting based trophies and it really comes down to the fact how others did. You can seriously win any of those without even pulling anything special or you can win them by being an absolute beast, both scenarios are possible so it depends on the year. Brodeur could have won 3 or he could have won 0, same goes with Roy and it doesn't really change anything whether you have the trophy or not, you still absolutely played in a same way.

Devils rise to the top began with Brodeur becoming a starting goaltender and ended when he turned 40. He recorded 691 wins and 125 shutouts, which are still more than all the goalies combined devils have had through these years. Records, unlike other awards are not voting based, you actually need to win those games and play 125 perfect games in order to get 125 shutouts, which are the marks that will not be matched - ever. Brodeur just got inducted into hall of fame last year, he's 4 years from his retirement now but within 20 years, when people are looking at the greatest goaltenders of all time, they will have a look into record book and there will always be the same guy on almost every important goalie record, just like Gretzky has when it comes to the forwards and people are being like, fuck, these guys literally destroyed the whole competition. It's way too early for these people to appreciate these things, they're in the expectation that someone will surely surpass him, they wait and wait and then when they will realize it ain't happening, then they cannot but appreciate the absolute greateness. Everytime a record gets broken, history will be made but when it comes to Brodeur and Gretzky, history was broken by them and never will be broken by anyone else, it's just how it is - that's how good those 2 were.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
28,695
Suggesting Brodeur is on Gretzky’s level. :sergio:

Gretzky and Orr are basically unanimous choices as the greatest players of all-time.

Next to no one but you thinks Brodeur is even a top 2 goalie of all time let alone the clear greatest :lol2:
 

Pegi

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2019
273
Suggesting Brodeur is on Gretzky’s level. :sergio:

Gretzky and Orr are basically unanimous choices as the greatest players of all-time.

Next to no one but you thinks Brodeur is even a top 2 goalie of all time let alone the clear greatest :lol2:
That's the absolute cream position by position, 3 of the greatest on their own positions. Not certainly the best but definitely the greatest, but that's whole different discussion.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
28,695
As I said, no one involved in hockey calls Brodeur the greatest. Calling him the undisputed greatest as though it’s a fact based upon wins and shutouts is myopic and plain dumb.

Your opinion isn’t fact lol

New Jersey didn’t win a cup after the Stevens-Niedermayer-Daneyko era. Brodeur never carried average teams to championships like Roy with the Habs, nor made a terrible team like the Sabres a contender like Hasek.

3rd greatest keeper post 70s imo. But that’s it.

Anyways, agree to disagree at this point.
 
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Pegi

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2019
273
As I said, no one involved in hockey calls Brodeur the greatest. Calling him the undisputed greatest as though it’s a fact based upon wins and shutouts is myopic and plain dumb.

Your opinion isn’t fact lol

New Jersey didn’t win a cup after the Stevens-Niedermayer-Daneyko era. Brodeur never carried average teams to championships like Roy with the Habs, nor made a terrible team like the Sabres a contender like Hasek.

3rd greatest keeper post 70s imo. But that’s it.

Anyways, agree to disagree at this point.
Ya, it ain't going nothing but back n forth, you got Hasek and his 300 less wins and Roy with 140 less wins in a game which is based on winning.
 

CR 7

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
30,252
Winning % in their careers

Brodeur 54.58%
Roy 53.55 %
Dryden 64.99%

GAA

Brodeur 2.24
Roy 2.54
Dryden 2.24

SO %

Brodeur 9.87%
Roy 6.41%
Dryden 11.59%

SV %
Brodeur .912
Roy .910
Dryden .922

Vezina Trophies

Brodeur 4 in 20 seasons
Roy 3 in 19 seasons
Dryden 5 in 8 seasons (1st season only played 6 games, won the Conn Smythe Trophy, but didn't win the Calder until next season)

NHL 1st/2nd All Star Team
Brodeur 7 in 20 seasons
Roy 6 in 19 seasons
Dryden 6 in 7 seasons


Can we stop now?

Especially since everyone is so fixated upon statistics? There you go.
 

Pegi

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2019
273
Winning % in their careers

Brodeur 54.58%
Roy 53.55 %
Dryden 64.99%

GAA

Brodeur 2.24
Roy 2.54
Dryden 2.24

SO %

Brodeur 9.87%
Roy 6.41%
Dryden 11.59%

SV %
Brodeur .912
Roy .910
Dryden .922

Vezina Trophies

Brodeur 4 in 20 seasons
Roy 3 in 19 seasons
Dryden 5 in 8 seasons (1st season only played 6 games, won the Conn Smythe Trophy, but didn't win the Calder until next season)

NHL 1st/2nd All Star Team
Brodeur 7 in 20 seasons
Roy 6 in 19 seasons
Dryden 6 in 7 seasons


Can we stop now?

Especially since everyone is so fixated upon statistics? There you go.
Dryden had the peak but not the longevity, therefore he isn't GOAT.
 

Post Ironic

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2013
28,695
Winning % in their careers

Brodeur 54.58%
Roy 53.55 %
Dryden 64.99%

GAA

Brodeur 2.24
Roy 2.54
Dryden 2.24

SO %

Brodeur 9.87%
Roy 6.41%
Dryden 11.59%

SV %
Brodeur .912
Roy .910
Dryden .922

Vezina Trophies

Brodeur 4 in 20 seasons
Roy 3 in 19 seasons
Dryden 5 in 8 seasons (1st season only played 6 games, won the Conn Smythe Trophy, but didn't win the Calder until next season)

NHL 1st/2nd All Star Team
Brodeur 7 in 20 seasons
Roy 6 in 19 seasons
Dryden 6 in 7 seasons


Can we stop now?

Especially since everyone is so fixated upon statistics? There you go.
:tup:

Rating a goalie who played his entire prime for the most defensive team in hockey on wins and shutouts is so amusing.

Roy played his first 10 years in by far the weakest team of any of them though. :p

If Hasek had played his early career in the NHL it wouldn’t even be a discussion and I hated Hasek. Despised him while growing up watching him make the most ridiculous saves.

Dryden and Hasek have the very clear best primes of any of these keepers. Roy by far the most dominant playoff goalie and led some of the weakest teams to ever win titles in Montreal. Brodeur has longevity.
 

CR 7

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
30,252
Longevity is great, and it should be a barometer for determining greatness, but not THE barometer.

Especially when the numbers show that the player you are claiming is the GOAT, simply isn't, according to the numbers.
 

Pegi

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2019
273
:tup:

Rating a goalie who played his entire prime for the most defensive team in hockey on wins and shutouts is so amusing.

Roy played his first 10 years in by far the weakest team of any of them though. :p

If Hasek had played his early career in the NHL it wouldn’t even be a discussion and I hated Hasek. Despised him while growing up watching him make the most ridiculous saves.

Dryden and Hasek have the very clear best primes of any of these keepers. Roy by far the most dominant playoff goalie and led some of the weakest teams to ever win titles in Montreal. Brodeur has longevity.
If, if and if ,Hasek wasn't good enough to be a starter but just below his 30s - even his first years in the NHL are suggesting that. Hasek just happened to way more of a late bloomer, that's it.

Seriously, anybody cannot be stupid enough to suggest that in a team sport, with 3-4 possible lines sharing the minutes are winning championships because of one player? Might win games here and there, but they won't win championships and we will seriously end it in here with that. Sports like Basketball one player can have a bigger impact on the outcome than in Hockey for example, but even there nobody can win by their own. Montreal being weak is just a myth and if they actually were, then there were alot other teams being even more weak - simple as that.

Dryden and Hasek might have the best peaks, that's something i can agree with and Roy being the best playoff goalie as well, but then again he happened to win couple of his Cups in a bought teams, just like Hasek did 2002. Devils were never the money team, they had the system, the had the right players to get the absolute best out of that system and Brodeur was the most important piece of that, even his EX- team mates would say so.

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Longevity is great, and it should be a barometer for determining greatness, but not THE barometer.

Especially when the numbers show that the player you are claiming is the GOAT, simply isn't, according to the numbers.
Actually according to numbers, Gretzky and Brodeur are easily the best 2 in their respective positions, how somebody claim any different? They have the most records, they did things better than anybody else in the history of the game. That's an achievement which isn't won by a vote, neither cannot be done in a short period of time, you need to be great for a long period of time and that's what longevity is.

It's Crystal clear that Gretzky and Brodeur are GOAT's, but many could argue that Mario was actually better player. But as being said, GOAT and best player is whole 2 different things. The more players are trying to achieve those things, the more respect and value those records will have. People can't nothing but accept the fact that they raised the bar so high that they're immortal.
 
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Osman

Koul Khara!
Aug 30, 2002
50,268
Havent been into NHL for decade plus, but man as a childhood Red wings fan, I soooooo wanna see this documentary, about the Russian Five (plus Yzerman, Lidström, they were the shit).








 
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