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The Holocaust (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter CheSchifo!
- Start date
Tahir, you really think that the reason for the Muslim world being in such great turmoil is the Muslims abandoning the teachings of Islam?
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I didnt ask you to do anything, i was attempting to clarify what i had said before which appeared to be misunderstood.
Niewyk, Donald L. The Columbia Guide to the Holocaust, Columbia University Press, 2000, p.45: "The Holocaust is commonly defined as the murder of more than 5,000,000
Donald Niewyk suggests that the broadest definition, including Soviet civilian deaths, would produce a death toll of 17 million. Estimates of the death toll of Jewish victims vary by millions, partly because the boundary between death by persecution and death by starvation and other means in a context of total war is unclear. (Gilbert, Martin. Atlas of the Holocaust 1988, pp. 242-244)
I dont endorse the following source, but you asked for me to support the assertation that the 6 000 000 figure is incorrect/exagerated
The USHMM places the scholarly estimates at 220,000–500,000. Michael Berenbaum in The World Must Know, also published by the USHMM, writes that "serious scholars estimate that between 90,000 and 220,000 were killed under German rule." (Berenbaum, Michael. The World Must Know," United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, 2006, p. 126
Hmmm, geography had absolutely nothing to do with my opinion that you're a Tosk. :smile:
The physical appearance, the education, culture, way of life (if you compare the two tribes living in Albania) is what made me sure that you're not a Gheg. There was absolutely no chance that you could be a product of the Gheg culture.
As for geography, i know that Shkumbin is the border. That's why i asked for your village but on the map it appeared north of the river and that's where the Gheg live and that's what confused me a lot. I was sure that you belong to the southern branch but looking at the map i was left with my mouth open so i had to ask you if you're Gheg or Tosk.
The physical appearance, the education, culture, way of life (if you compare the two tribes living in Albania) is what made me sure that you're not a Gheg. There was absolutely no chance that you could be a product of the Gheg culture.
As for geography, i know that Shkumbin is the border. That's why i asked for your village but on the map it appeared north of the river and that's where the Gheg live and that's what confused me a lot. I was sure that you belong to the southern branch but looking at the map i was left with my mouth open so i had to ask you if you're Gheg or Tosk.
Hmmm, geography had absolutely nothing to do with my opinion that you're a Tosk. :smile:
The physical appearance, the education, culture, way of life (if you compare the two tribes living in Albania) is what made me sure that you're not a Gheg. There was absolutely no chance that you could be a product of the Gheg culture.
As for geography, i know that Shkumbin is the border. That's why i asked for your village but on the map it appeared north of the river and that's where the Gheg live and that's what confused me a lot. I was sure that you belong to the southern branch but looking at the map i was left with my mouth open so i had to ask you if you're Gheg or Tosk.
The physical appearance, the education, culture, way of life (if you compare the two tribes living in Albania) is what made me sure that you're not a Gheg. There was absolutely no chance that you could be a product of the Gheg culture.
As for geography, i know that Shkumbin is the border. That's why i asked for your village but on the map it appeared north of the river and that's where the Gheg live and that's what confused me a lot. I was sure that you belong to the southern branch but looking at the map i was left with my mouth open so i had to ask you if you're Gheg or Tosk.
you really bring up a great point there
my god those people. you forgot the language, it's like speaking english with an irish accent, who the fuck knows what you're sayingI've posted this before, but here it is again:
DIRECTIONS IN POLITICAL MATTERS
The other major international question confronting us today is that of the determination of the form of government for a given region or country. Here, too, the guiding principles of Islam are so pertinent, weighty and elastic that their truth and- practicability become self evident. No one can deny that a particular form of government is considered suitable or unsuitable only when applied to a specific set of conditions obtaining, and it is idle to imagine that a particular political system can fulfil the needs of all people for all times. This is why Islam does not specify a particular form of government. It neither presents a democratic or socialist form, nor recommends kingship or dictatorship. Instead of dilating upon the methods of establishing governments, Islam enunciates the principle of conducting political and governmental affairs in a specific manner, and imposes the condition that, no matter what the form, the responsibilities of a government will always be discharged justly and fairly, with sympathy; always fulfilling and upholding basic human rights. Thus, instead of emphasising the first segment of the commonly accepted definition of democracy, i.e.; government, by the people:, Islam emphasises that, whatever the form of the government, it must in all events be for the people.
So when democracy is mentioned among other forms of government the real stress is laid on its quality. It is emphasized that it should not be a hollow democracy, but that those electing their rulers should be competent people, motivated in all honesty to elect only those who are really fit and equal to the task. This has been made a pre-requisite of any election to office by the Quran:
(Arabic)
Verily, Allah commands you to give over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice [17].
And then, whatever government may be established, it is obliged to govern with justice, without any discrimination of race, colour, or creed.
Now I shall briefly summarise the rules that flow from the basic fundamentals given in the Quran about any system of government:
1. A government is duty-bound to protect the honour, life and property of its people [18].
2. A ruler must always act with justice, between individuals and between people [19].
3. National matters should be settled by consultation [20].
4. Government must arrange to fulfil the basic needs of man: that is to say, provide him food, clothing and shelter [21].
5. People should be provided a peaceful and secure environment, and their lives, property and honour protected [22].
6. The economic system should be equitable and orderly [22].
7. Health care should be organised [22].
8. There should prevail total religious freedom [23].
9. A vanquished people must be dealt with justly [24].
10. Prisoners of war should be treated with compassion [25].
11. Treaties and agreements must always be honoured [26].
12. Inequitous agreements must not be forced upon the weak [26].
13. Muslim subjects are enjoined to obey the government in authority. The only exception to this rule is a case where the government blatantly opposes and prevents the carrying out of religious duties and obligations [27].
14. If differences should arise with the ruler, then these should be settled in the light of the principles enunciated in the Quran and by the Holy Prophet. In no event should one be swayed by selfish motives [28].
15. People are enjoined to assist the authorities by supporting schemes that aim to promote general well-being and welfare. It is forbidden to launch so-called non-cooperation movements [29]. Similarly, governments are obliged to assist in beneficent undertakings, whether individual or collective, and not to obstruct such endeavours.
16. A powerful country is forbidden from all forms of aggression against another country. Recourse to arms is permitted in self-defence only [30]
---
18. Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trust to those entitled to them. Holy Quran 4:59.
19. And that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Holy Quran 4:59.
20. And whose affairs are decided by mutual consultation. Holy Quran 42:39.
21. It is provided for thee that thou wilt not hunger therein, nor wilt thou be naked . And that thou wilt not thirst therein, nor wilt thou be exposed to the sun. Holy Quran 119:120.
22. And when he is in authority, he runs about in the land to create disorder in it and destroy the crops and the progeny of man: and Allah loves not disorder . Holy Quran 2:206.
23.There should be no compulsion in religion. Holy Quran 2:257.
24.And let not a people's enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. Holy Quran 5:9.
25. 'It does not behove a Prophet that he should have captives until he engages in regular fighting in the land.' Holy Quran 8:68.
26. Then afterwards eitherrelease them as a favour or by taking ransom -until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance.' Holy Quran 47:5.
27. 'Obey Allah. and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you.' Holy Qurdn 4:60.
28. 'And if you differ in anything among yourselves. refer it to Allah and His Messenger.' Holy Quran 4:60.
29. 'And help one another in righteousness but help not one another in sin and transgression.' Holy Quran 5:3.
30. And strain not thy eyes after what we have bestowed on some classes of them to enjoy for a short time.' Holy Quran 20:132.
source: http://www.alislam.org/books/distinct/index.html
DIRECTIONS IN POLITICAL MATTERS
The other major international question confronting us today is that of the determination of the form of government for a given region or country. Here, too, the guiding principles of Islam are so pertinent, weighty and elastic that their truth and- practicability become self evident. No one can deny that a particular form of government is considered suitable or unsuitable only when applied to a specific set of conditions obtaining, and it is idle to imagine that a particular political system can fulfil the needs of all people for all times. This is why Islam does not specify a particular form of government. It neither presents a democratic or socialist form, nor recommends kingship or dictatorship. Instead of dilating upon the methods of establishing governments, Islam enunciates the principle of conducting political and governmental affairs in a specific manner, and imposes the condition that, no matter what the form, the responsibilities of a government will always be discharged justly and fairly, with sympathy; always fulfilling and upholding basic human rights. Thus, instead of emphasising the first segment of the commonly accepted definition of democracy, i.e.; government, by the people:, Islam emphasises that, whatever the form of the government, it must in all events be for the people.
So when democracy is mentioned among other forms of government the real stress is laid on its quality. It is emphasized that it should not be a hollow democracy, but that those electing their rulers should be competent people, motivated in all honesty to elect only those who are really fit and equal to the task. This has been made a pre-requisite of any election to office by the Quran:
(Arabic)
Verily, Allah commands you to give over the trusts to those entitled to them, and that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice [17].
And then, whatever government may be established, it is obliged to govern with justice, without any discrimination of race, colour, or creed.
Now I shall briefly summarise the rules that flow from the basic fundamentals given in the Quran about any system of government:
1. A government is duty-bound to protect the honour, life and property of its people [18].
2. A ruler must always act with justice, between individuals and between people [19].
3. National matters should be settled by consultation [20].
4. Government must arrange to fulfil the basic needs of man: that is to say, provide him food, clothing and shelter [21].
5. People should be provided a peaceful and secure environment, and their lives, property and honour protected [22].
6. The economic system should be equitable and orderly [22].
7. Health care should be organised [22].
8. There should prevail total religious freedom [23].
9. A vanquished people must be dealt with justly [24].
10. Prisoners of war should be treated with compassion [25].
11. Treaties and agreements must always be honoured [26].
12. Inequitous agreements must not be forced upon the weak [26].
13. Muslim subjects are enjoined to obey the government in authority. The only exception to this rule is a case where the government blatantly opposes and prevents the carrying out of religious duties and obligations [27].
14. If differences should arise with the ruler, then these should be settled in the light of the principles enunciated in the Quran and by the Holy Prophet. In no event should one be swayed by selfish motives [28].
15. People are enjoined to assist the authorities by supporting schemes that aim to promote general well-being and welfare. It is forbidden to launch so-called non-cooperation movements [29]. Similarly, governments are obliged to assist in beneficent undertakings, whether individual or collective, and not to obstruct such endeavours.
16. A powerful country is forbidden from all forms of aggression against another country. Recourse to arms is permitted in self-defence only [30]
---
18. Verily, Allah commands you to make over the trust to those entitled to them. Holy Quran 4:59.
19. And that, when you judge between men, you judge with justice. Holy Quran 4:59.
20. And whose affairs are decided by mutual consultation. Holy Quran 42:39.
21. It is provided for thee that thou wilt not hunger therein, nor wilt thou be naked . And that thou wilt not thirst therein, nor wilt thou be exposed to the sun. Holy Quran 119:120.
22. And when he is in authority, he runs about in the land to create disorder in it and destroy the crops and the progeny of man: and Allah loves not disorder . Holy Quran 2:206.
23.There should be no compulsion in religion. Holy Quran 2:257.
24.And let not a people's enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. Holy Quran 5:9.
25. 'It does not behove a Prophet that he should have captives until he engages in regular fighting in the land.' Holy Quran 8:68.
26. Then afterwards eitherrelease them as a favour or by taking ransom -until the war lays down its burdens. That is the ordinance.' Holy Quran 47:5.
27. 'Obey Allah. and obey His Messenger and those who are in authority among you.' Holy Qurdn 4:60.
28. 'And if you differ in anything among yourselves. refer it to Allah and His Messenger.' Holy Quran 4:60.
29. 'And help one another in righteousness but help not one another in sin and transgression.' Holy Quran 5:3.
30. And strain not thy eyes after what we have bestowed on some classes of them to enjoy for a short time.' Holy Quran 20:132.
source: http://www.alislam.org/books/distinct/index.html
Religion and politics should never mix, religion and science should never mix. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want, no one should be entitled to use political means and judicial means to FORCE their beliefs onto other pepole, which unfortunatley christianity and islam do when they have political influence.
That is basically a contradiction in terms. Show me a religious movement that doesn't/didn't have political aspirations. The whole idea of religion is that you are 'blessed' with this fantastic knowledge of how to live a better life and you are commanded to spread the glorious message. In its very essence it is political.
Are you selective on when you reply to people? You appear to be a stage behind me on what iv said, what i said was with this knowledge in mind, i was evaluating it with the assertation that religion shouldnt do that or it cannot be harmless untill it does do that. The only reason iv ended up personally as an antitheist and humanist is because i know religion can never do that.
im so tired right now i dont really know if that makes sence or if iv even replied to what youv said, so if i havent..ignore me lol.
im so tired right now i dont really know if that makes sence or if iv even replied to what youv said, so if i havent..ignore me lol.
nah mate, iv just worked iv worked 52 hours in the last 4 days, just started catching up with me lol
Martin -
Have you seen the christian party in the uk? Evil fucks they are...
This is their manifesto at the moment iirc
# a proposed referendum on the reinstitution of the death penalty for severe crimes, where two or three witnesses were present at the crime scene and forensic science confirms involvement.
# legislation to ban abortion.
# increased taxation on alcohol and tobacco.
# initiatives to bring personal responsibility to bear upon "self-inflicted disease" (such as alcoholism).
# Zero tolerance on drug possession.
# curfews for under 11 year olds, with mandatory intervention of child protection agencies in relation to any child 10 years or younger that is found unaccompanied on the street after 9:00pm.
# the reintroduction of the right of teachers to use corporal punishment in extreme circumstances.
# greater observance of a weekly day of rest (Sunday).
# limits around coastlines to preserve stocks of fish and sand eels.
# promotion in school of chastity before marriage.
# re-instatement of Section 2A (also known as Section 28), a law to guard against the promotion of homosexuality.
# the re-introduction of corporate readings from the Bible in all Scottish state schools.
# provision of Christian religious education on a mandatory basis, with no obligation to promote other faiths, regardless of the wishes of those being instructed or their parents. There currently exists a level of compulsory Christian observance in all British schools[7][8][9], so these policies are calling for this to be increased.
# a science curriculum which should "reflect the evidence of creation/design" in the universe (see Creation-evolution controversy).
# public health campaigns to discourage homosexuality alongside excessive drinking and the use of addictive substances, whilst maintaining "God loves and we should love" such individuals.
# the restoration of the right for parents to smack their children (as with prayer, this currently exists and the policy is a call for an increase).
# "Mind Pollution Levy" on 18 Certificate Films, DVDs, CDs, Video Games and Top Shelf magazines.
# a re-establishment of the principle of the innocent party in a divorce being acknowledged in any divorce settlement.
# discouragement of the practice of addressing women as Ms..
# opposition of the practice of altering birth certificates to reflect gender confirmation surgery.
# promotion of Biblical alternatives to the current criminal justice system, including emphasis on the role of witnesses over forensic evidence.
# that Mechanical Copyright Protection enjoyed by songwriters should be extended to featured recording artists and record producers.
# that a minimum royalty percentage (the level of which should be decided through consultation with the music industry) should be paid to featured recording artists and producers on exactly the same basis as is currently paid to songwriters.
# In Wales the party wants to change the Welsh flag, because it views the red dragon as a satanic symbol, they would replace it with the cross of Saint David
Martin -
Have you seen the christian party in the uk? Evil fucks they are...
This is their manifesto at the moment iirc
# a proposed referendum on the reinstitution of the death penalty for severe crimes, where two or three witnesses were present at the crime scene and forensic science confirms involvement.
# legislation to ban abortion.
# increased taxation on alcohol and tobacco.
# initiatives to bring personal responsibility to bear upon "self-inflicted disease" (such as alcoholism).
# Zero tolerance on drug possession.
# curfews for under 11 year olds, with mandatory intervention of child protection agencies in relation to any child 10 years or younger that is found unaccompanied on the street after 9:00pm.
# the reintroduction of the right of teachers to use corporal punishment in extreme circumstances.
# greater observance of a weekly day of rest (Sunday).
# limits around coastlines to preserve stocks of fish and sand eels.
# promotion in school of chastity before marriage.
# re-instatement of Section 2A (also known as Section 28), a law to guard against the promotion of homosexuality.
# the re-introduction of corporate readings from the Bible in all Scottish state schools.
# provision of Christian religious education on a mandatory basis, with no obligation to promote other faiths, regardless of the wishes of those being instructed or their parents. There currently exists a level of compulsory Christian observance in all British schools[7][8][9], so these policies are calling for this to be increased.
# a science curriculum which should "reflect the evidence of creation/design" in the universe (see Creation-evolution controversy).
# public health campaigns to discourage homosexuality alongside excessive drinking and the use of addictive substances, whilst maintaining "God loves and we should love" such individuals.
# the restoration of the right for parents to smack their children (as with prayer, this currently exists and the policy is a call for an increase).
# "Mind Pollution Levy" on 18 Certificate Films, DVDs, CDs, Video Games and Top Shelf magazines.
# a re-establishment of the principle of the innocent party in a divorce being acknowledged in any divorce settlement.
# discouragement of the practice of addressing women as Ms..
# opposition of the practice of altering birth certificates to reflect gender confirmation surgery.
# promotion of Biblical alternatives to the current criminal justice system, including emphasis on the role of witnesses over forensic evidence.
# that Mechanical Copyright Protection enjoyed by songwriters should be extended to featured recording artists and record producers.
# that a minimum royalty percentage (the level of which should be decided through consultation with the music industry) should be paid to featured recording artists and producers on exactly the same basis as is currently paid to songwriters.
# In Wales the party wants to change the Welsh flag, because it views the red dragon as a satanic symbol, they would replace it with the cross of Saint David
