The Doped Lady (1 Viewer)

[Kaiser Franco]

Zizi FFS are you completely thick or just pretending to be??? I tell Grecul how the doping trial started 6 years ago and once again you "refresh my memory" by posting another of your long-winded articles out of Repubblica's archives??? WTF does that have to do with anything??? I am going to give it one last try, so please READ my question because I know you CAN :

XZIZ :

WHAT

IS

YOUR

TAKE

ON

THE

DOPING

TRIAL

?

(asked in the most suave possible voice)

 

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[Kaiser Franco]

Duke, nice try, but to no avail. As far as insults are concerned, I strongly recommend you to watch how Zizi has been addressing me in this thread and others (see "Back to Zemanlandia" to name but one).

Regarding me and Nick's unwillingness to concede "facts", you're even more misguided. Here, just for you I digged up a thread from the Xtra Time forum where me and Nick happened to discuss about..................Berlusconi! Stress on the "discuss", as in putting forward your OWN arguments based on an analysis of the information you have, and as in learning to respect the messenger and pay heed to his opinion on the matter even if it differs from yours. Enjoy

 

[Kaiser Franco]

This my first post in said thread :


Right,

First off, hello everybody.

After reading the whole thread, I feel that I should respectfully throw in my two cents.

To begin with, I want to calrify the reasons behind the resignation of the first Berlusconi government in '94. Bossi's defection from the coalition did not come out of the blue. It followed an "avviso di garanzia" that had been sent to Berlusconi (i.e. an official warning that he was being subjected to an investigation - in this case bribery). This is a serious matter, and it was all the more serious back in 1994, when Italy was only just recovering from Tangentopoli ("Bribesville"), the mega scandal that emasculated all the mainstream parties of the First Republic, as practically all the ancient leaders’ heads rolled into the dust. Because it had so far been marginalised by the intelligentsia, Bossi's party, the anti-immigration and separatist Lega Nord, was one of the very few who came out as “clean”. Berlusconi had based his electoral campaign on the argument that he was the ideal political figure, the homo novus that was going to cut with 50 years of misgovernment (nevermind the fact that being Craxi's best buddy, i.e. the corrupter-in-chief himself, did not make him look that "novus" after all). Anyway, the Italian public had entrusted Berlusconi with the mission of ridding Italy’s establishment of its past sins, and here it found itself with a Pm who suddenly seemed to ressuscitate all those sins! So, by leaving the coalition, Bossi only sticked to his principles.

It is interesting to note that back in ’94, Berlusconi hailed the independence of the Italian judiciary, which had allowed to dismantle the gigantic machine of systematic corruption through the “Mani pulite” ( = “clean hands”) operation. He even courted the magistrate Di Pietro for a while, asking him to join the nascent Forza Italia. Today, he dismisses these very same judges as communist conspirators. Hence his idea of passing a law that makes the 5 more important political figures of the nation immune from prosecution while in power.

I would like to make a comment regarding Italy’s stance in the world since Berlusconi is our Pm. One of you suggested that ever since he has been in charge, we are more respected on the international scene. Being the son of diplomats and having myself worked in international organisations, I can tell you that nothing could be further from the truth. Our European allies are at best indifferent, at worst annoyed. Schroeder and Chirac simply cannot stand the man. Blair is reluctant to get too cosy with him even after Aznar’s demise. The fact that France, Germany and the UK systematically exclude Italy from the “special summits” they hold between them is quite revealing. The 6 months Italian Presidency of the EU was indeed an absolute failure. Saying that Putin is a close and democratic ally of the West (nevermind the czechens) when the EU is in fact trying to press Russia to be more accountable for its human rights’ record was in my opinion the biggest gaffe he committed.

Calling Berlusconi a fascist is misplaced. He does have some disturbing populist leanings, but he does not fit into the same category as Le Pen. I guess Bossi could be considered as the Italian version of Haider, while another member of the coalition, Alleanza Nazionale are the de facto post-fascist party. This does not mean however that he is less dangerous. By owning virtually all of Italy’s private televisions and controlling public television through his Premiership, he does hold an enormous amount of power. And he creates a precedent, because no other modern democracy in the world finds itself in a similar situation. He also creates a blatant conflict of interests. As Italy’s richest man, there is hardly any issue debated at Palazzo Chigi that does not affect in one way or another his business interests. Clearly this puts him in an awkward position : I won’t go into details, but many of his firms and holdings (Mondadori, Fininvest, Publitalia) have hugely benefited from measures he has taken as Italy’s PM. Berlusconi had pledged to solve his conflict of interests within the first 100 days of his Premiership. Three years on, we are still waiting. This isn’t to say that the left isn’t responsible : they had had enough time when they were in power to pass a law enabling him to solve that problem, but they failed to do it. In fact the left’s pathetic internal disputes and unability to counter the Berlusconi anomaly are a direct consequence of his success.

Berlusconi likes to present himself as a self-made man. However, a lot of aspects of his rise to power and wealth remain obscure. Some are well-known, though. Such as his belonging to the very powerful Masonic lodge P2 in the 70’s, which was bent on taking power, had a coup occurred. The P2 was dismantled in 1980 and its creator , the “serenissimo” Licio Gelli, was jailed. Or as the fact that his friendship with the then PM Bettino Craxi allowed him to create his media Empire in the 80’s (Craxi would pass laws allowing Berlusconi to broadcast on a national level in exchange for a lenient coverage of his government's action in the Berlusconi’s newspapers). Again, we’re talking about “Mr tangente” Craxi, who died in exile in Tunisia to avoid prosecution in Italy. Or – more worryingly – his hiring Vittorio Mangano officially to take care of his property’s horses. For the record, Mangano was Cosa Nostra’s representative in Milan back in those years. It would be interesting to hear Berlusconi’s stance on these issues, but as we know the Cavaliere prefers “spontaneous declarations” to proper interviews. When Kohler was involved in a minor corruption scandal in Germany, he was immediately forced to resign as leader of the CDU. In America, Clinton was almost impeached for refusing to admit that he screw an intern. In Italy, nothing of the sort. We don’t try these people in Italy : we elect them.

 

[Kaiser Franco]

This my reply to a Roma fan who jumped in - observe my REFUSAL to confront facts :



I usually don’t fancy replying in a debate by quoting the other person but in this case I will have to make an exception. Let me start though by saying that if you are to “dismantle my points”, you will have to try a lot harder than that.


Quote:
Dude, I am from Rome Italy and If you dont mind I know my politics. Your post is way too long to be answered all but I will answer some main points. When you say Berlusca has all the media, crap, our media is free like any other democratic country. Do I have to remind you what papers like Unita', Repubblica, Lotta Continua etc say about Berlusca? Or how RAI 3 tells their news? pls. Berlusca is hated because he is rich. He is doing fine as a the Presidente del Consiglio. La Sinistra was in the govt before him and what did they do better? Nothing.


It is a fact that whoever is in power in Italy has the ability to control and influence public television. It shouldn’t be so, but it has always been and will probably still be like that for some time. The composition of RAI’s board is usually decided by the government of the day. The Berlusconi government is no exception to this “rule”. Indeed, the too “left-leaning” Zaccaria was promptly replaced by Saccà as President of the Board immediately after the 2001 elections. This government has gone even further though, banning satirical shows it deemed too critical as well as Enzo Biagi, who, since the great Montanelli’s demise, is acknowledged as the most authoritative Italian journalist alive. Add to this Berlusconi’s ownership of all of Italy’s private televisions (bar La Sette), and you see how Italy is the only democracy in the world where the PM has such a huge control (directly or not) of what is being shown on the screen. So when a channel with little influence such as RAI 3 tries to rebel against this state of affairs, they are of course labelled as communists.

As far as I know “Lotta Continua” is a political movement, not a newspaper. If there is such a newspaper, then I imagine its relevance must be as big as Liechtenstein’s role in world affairs, for even a careful observer of Italy’s political life like myself had never heard of it. Similarly : how many people in Italy read l'Unità? As for La Repubblica, it is the italian equivalent to the Guardian if you like, but the most read paper in Italy remains the conservative (and fairly objective) Corriere della Sera. I will come back on the “doing fine Presidente del Consiglio” part later.

Quote:
That was back in the day dude. Bossi was mostly *****ing since the nord actually does produce more than the mezzogiorno.

Did you actually bother reading what I said? Someone claimed that the first Berlusconi government fell exclusively because of Bossi. Wrong. The “coup de grâce” was the opening of an investigation on Berlusconi. One can say what he wants about Bossi, but not that he is not a man of principles. The best proof of this is that to this day he is still “*****ing since the North produces more”. The only difference is that now that he is in power he talks about “federalism” rather than downright “secession”. Roman MP’s are a more refined audience than disgruntled “padani” I suppose.


Quote:
Are you sure you are not Berinotti? Actually the whole trial against Berlusca was made up by LEFT party magistrati. Get your news straight.


Is that it ? That’s your argument ? Calling me Bertinotti? Mister “3% of the vote” Fausto Bertinotti? That’s what scares the mighty “forzisti”? I have a first news for you : communism has ceased to exist 13 years ago. And, if only, Forza Italia should thank Bertinotti for making Prodi’s government resign in ’98 by just one vote. It amazes me how Italy is still hunting “commies” after all this time. Again, it’s a very typically Italian feature it seems. I don’t see Chirac dismissing the left as communists, nor would the German opposition accuse Schroeder of serving Marxist interests. But hey, it’s Italy we are talking about : people don’t engage in proper debates with their opponents here, they try to diminish them by applying labels ad nauseam. Whoever said “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it”? Oh yeah, Dr Goebbels.

Anyway, let me warn you : the labelling won’t work with me. I am neither a socialist nor a conservative. I don’t follow ideologies : they’re as brainwashing as religions. Had I been old enough to vote at the time, I reckon I could have gone for the Democrazia Cristiana in the 80’s. I wish I could say that today I vote FOR the left, if only they were worth it, but the sad truth is that the only choice I have now is to vote AGAINST Forza Italia. This is why the regional and EU Parliament elections which the right is expected to lose next June will hardly be a victory for the left, but rather a defeat for the right.

Now back to the history lesson. During the Bribesville scandal in ’93, the judiciary was the only institution left trusted by Italian public opinion. A certain number of special measures were taken to allow judges to better fight omnipresent corruption. Such as the extension of the “custodia cautelare” period, i.e. the period of “preventive incarceration” of a political figure subjected to an inquiry. Preventive incarceration did indeed bear its fruit : fearing it as they did, many politicians started collaborating with the judges, giving them precious informations. Now here is my next question : what parties at the time did endorse those measures and hailed the Italian judiciary for its independence (an independence that was highly respected and envied by their European counterparts)? That’s right : Lega Nord, Alleanza Nazionale and…Forza Italia! It seems that accountability is only desirable when it helps you win an election…

Having said this, I want to make a short digression on the controversial “change of venue” law, which someone evoked and on which I forgot to elaborate in my previous post. This law enables a person that is subjected to an investigation to ask for her trial to be held in a different court if she suspects that the present one won’t give her a fair trial. After examining his request, The Supreme Court did indeed refuse to move Berlusconi’s trial from Milan to Brescia. What hasn’t been specified however is that by changing the venue, you also have to start the whole trial from scrap in the new court. Given that Berlusconi’s trial has been going on for years (notably thanks to his army of lawyers’ ability to postpone decisions), this would almost certainly have meant it would have fallen under statute of limitation. But since that law was not sufficient, here comes the immunity law!


Quote:
Again thats false. Italy since Berlusca has had better relations with all countries. We are in the G8 so I dont see why you are bragging.


If you think Italy’s stance in the world has improved, then clearly you need to get out of Italy more. Being a founding member of the EU, Italy has been one of the most reliable European partners ever since its inception. Indeed, every italian government since the Treaty of Rome in 54, be it socialist or Christian Democrat, has always stuck to its European committments. Not since Berlusca took over, that is. The man has managed to squander that hard-won trust and respectability in just 3 years. Again, this is easy to see for anyone who has frequented the EU circles long enough. Given the British’ traditional euroscepticism, France and Germany have always seen Italy as the ideal third big partner from whom to get support. Well, not anymore : these days the “directorate” is either led by France and Germany or – since enlargement – France, Germany and the UK. Not ONCE has Italy been invited to participate. We have never received such a negative coverage in the European press : hardly a week passes by without the Frankfurter Allgemein, the Financial Times or Le Monde reporting on the Italian “anomaly” – are you gonna label these papers as communist too?

To be fair, Berlusconi does have two allies on the international scene : Bush and Putin. A Christian fundamentalist from Texas and a Russian autocrat : nice way to compromise our long-standing relation with our European allies, Silvio! Incidentally, do you have any idea why our government is the only one that fiercely opposes the introduction of a European warrant of arrest? Because that would allow Courts that are trying him in other countries (such as Madrid, which is investigating on the Tele Cinqo scandal) to convict him.

The G 8? So now Italy is in the G 8 thanks to Berlusca? As far as I know we have been there since the 70’s or something, back when Berlusconi was just a successful entrepreneur affiliated to an illegal Masonic lodge. But don’t worry, seeing how dynamic Italy’s economy has been in the last 3 years Im sure we will get excluded from that club as well. I just happen to have the Economist’s Intelligence Unit’s monthly economic overview of the EU member states with me. Italy’s GDP growth in the last quarter has reached…0,1%! We’re dead last of the list : is this the economic miracle we were promised in the campaign?

Quote:
La sinistra Italiana tried and succeded to get Berlusca out of the chair when he won in a democratic way. Lefters couldt stand having lost and tried everything and that is wjhere the Ribaltone comes from. Now too, why dosent Rutelli and his buds let Berlusca stay? If he is so bad, isnt that better for them? so that then in the next elections they will win? Problem is that la sinistra has NO program what so ever and is scared shitless.


No kidding : as I said the absence of a proper plan on behalf of the Left is a main cause of Berlusconi’s rise to power. The fact that he has the means to paint the whole of Italy with posters bearing his effigy and flood his televisions with electoral spots during a campaign (nevermind the “par condicio”, which is supposed to give the same time on the air to each candidate) might also help. Berlusconi is a MASTER at winning electoral campaigns : on that there is not the least doubt. As we can see however he is much less of a master at honouring his promises, and even less so at governing the country.

Quote:
Like what? Your cosa nostra things, I have heard them too many times. its all rumors and NO FACTS. Berlusca is a made man, he started singing in cruises if we want to be right, then I guess had the talent to build and become what he is now. Thing is some people are just against Berlusca for no reason, they dont even listen nor see what he does.
Definition of a populist according to the Oxford Dictionnary : a member of a political party seeking to represent the interests of ordinary people.

As we know, the term now bears a negative connotation, as it designates a politician playing on the people’s instincts to gain sympathy. A populist basically says what people want to hear, no matter how unrealistic it is.

Prime example of Berlusconi’s populism : “I will create one million new jobs !” – 1994. Number of jobs created after his first 7 months in office : - (as in minus) 400. 000.

The mafia accusations. Fact numero 1 : Vittorio Mangano was Cosa Nostra’s man of honour in Milan. Fact nr 2 : he was into drug-trafficking and abductions. Fact nr 3 : Berlusconi hired Vittorio Mangano. Although he was supposed to work in the stables, Mangano would usually spend the day walking 6 neapolitan mastiffs in the Residence’s park. Fact nr 4 : Mangano planned (and failed) the abduction of a guest at a reception held in Berlusca’s mansion, forcing the latter to fire him. Fact number 5 : Dell’Utri – i.e. Berlusca’s closest associate with Previti and Confalonieri – is being prosecuted for this story. And here is the only declaration that Berlusconi deemed necessary to make regarding this issue : “I needed someone who could take care of my horses. I chose Mangano personally, out of a list of names that was presented to me. He made a good impression on me.” I don’t even want to know what other names were on that list for the Cavaliere to decide that Mangano’s was the one who gave him a good impression.

Now I have no idea why you brought up the fact that Berlusconi started his career as a “crooner” on the Riviera Ligure. That’s usually something people would deride him for, except of course his poodle Emilio Fede who sees it as a romantic episode of the Berlusconi saga. “The crooner who became a billionaire” – I reckon we could write a fairy tale on that theme, lol. We could call it “Una storia italiana” and send one free copy with plenty of pictures of the smiling crooner in it to every Italian family just before the next election…oh but wait : Berlusconi already did that!

 

[Kaiser Franco]

And finally, here is what Nick had to say about this subject :

L...I apologize for not replying earlier..I was busy celebrating our Scudetto and politics was the last thing on my mind…plus you unlike most have well thought out arguments and I didn’t want to reply with babble and Berlusconi Rules or Berlusconi is a criminal uninformative horseshit we see too often from the uninformed folk.

I enjoyed reading your post as it was extremely informative and substantial and not too bias. As a brief pre-amble all I can offer is my view that of a foreigner living in Italy for over a year but from an Italian background.

Firstly, the only part I disagreed with your post was the end which was quite elusive and transparent: "In America, Clinton was almost impeached for refusing to admit that he screw an intern. In Italy, nothing of the sort. We don’t try these people in Italy : we elect them."
In my home nation we have a President and Vice President who have their hands all over controversial matters (Enron) and have eluded the public in response to many issues (the weapons of Mass Destruction, Haliburton, their links to the Bin Ladens, Cheney links, etc). In Canada there is a Prime Minister who also happens to be the heir of one of the largest shipping companies in North America and as Minister of Finance amended many tariffs which increased his Family's Company three fold. Most of his finances are also in offshore companies. Both had incredible popularity rates….both have their hands in situations FAR worse than Berlusconi. Both instances have been swept under the rug. Both had astounding popularity rates. What is ironic is that while supposedly the George Dubya’s and Mr. MaHTin’s (as Bono affectionately calls him) of the world are conflict (media wise) free they faced far less media pressure and criticism than the supposed media-controlling Berlusconi did. The argument after 9-11 was “let the President” run the country..the argument in these times is “we have enough problems” let him be. In Canada with a Parliamentary system the majority government will only get so much media sniffing because it is seen as fruitless unless an election is on the horizon. There is a time for report cards and the entire term is not a time to be constantly asking the ELECTED Prime Minister to defend himself day in and day out over every accusation with no scintilla of evidence. It is no secret that the boys pulling some strings at RAI are far from being “Men of Berlusca” and in what is the norm in Italy have had these positions when Silvio was still crooning Cruise Ship passengers.
By the way, Clinton was not impeached for screwing an intern. Clinton was impeached for perjury in front of grand jury (lying under oath) NOT for having the affair. There is no morality law despite popular belief.
As a law graduate e the appointment of judges in Italy is simply mind boggling and goes against the very notion of due process…the equivalent of Supreme, District and Superior (Canada) court judges are political appointments. No Senate hearing..no review to test partiality…just the “raccomandati” at its best..in a position where the notion unbiasness is enshrined in virtually every constitution. Handing Berlusconi a subpoena in front of world leaders in Napoli, charging him for tax evasion along with Alberto Tomba, Sophie Loren and so on (makes you wonder who is really fishing for income) and denying an accused a right that is labeled as constitutional in the US and Canada that being “audi alteram partem”. Denying Berlusconi a change of venue motion with NO justification is an excess of power in the North America with an automatic appeal: this is a procedural guarantee as common as the right to be heard. We have to wonder whether Berlusconi is really that crazy when he talks of a conspiracy among the judges. Its always easier to find the easy answer (he is a liar and covering his ass) rather than search for the truth: this legal system has some serious issues to deal with.
It is also no surprise that the world is not keen on Berlusconi….my family back home keeps me updated on what news they are being fed via London and Reuters/Associated Press: the usual outbursts he makes and criticism from political backbenchers and cleverly omit to report his plans to reform the much corrupted labor system: pension plan, disability insurance and unemployment for those with no excuses. The implementation of an efficient system putting a halt to fraudulent claims by supposed disabled workers which is causing great debt for the government. The plethora of jobs created in Iraq and contracts won in the re-building. Or the fact that he re-instated the immunity law and did not create it. Or the fact that the a variation of that law exists in England, Italy and Canada. Of course not because that would disrupt the picture of Berlusconi that has been painted overseas. Hearing about a whacko is always more interesting.
Berlusconi has not received what some call “fundamental rights” (due process, procedural guarantees) let alone his day in court.
A question many back home ask me is "didn't Berlusconi win by a majority government....wtf..they voted him in...or didn't...whatever...no use crying over spilled milk...let him do his damn job and see what he can do rather than bicker for 4 years and then say he didn't do a damn thing." The mentality is usually that it is 'payback' in election time NOT 365 days a year after when a majority voted a party into power.

 

[Kaiser Franco]

This, my friends, is what is called an EXCHANGE OF VIEWS. Take note!

 

[Martin]

Well then.. if I may.. Franco, do you think Berlusconi is "good for Italia"? Does he get results that others wouldn't? Does he believe in politics or does he just do it to affirm his influence?

 

[JCK]

What is this thread? a competition on can post the longest full of crap post?

 

[IncuboRossonero]

Xziz and the others: you are not on the same level as Franco to discuss Italian politics with him. Pure and Simple. It may sound elitist but it is the truth. The fact that he stated time and time again he is not a Berlusconi supporter went on deaf ears. You assumed because he was a Milan fan he had to be a Berlusconi supporter. What a simpleton's view? Do you really think Berlusconi came into power by only getting Milanistas to vote for him and having Juventini, Romanisti etc NOT vote for him because of Milan?

Seriously...lets grow up now.

 

[KB824]

Somebody want to tell me what on earth Berlusconi, the origins of his financial empire, what connections he may or may not have to organized crime, or his ability to lead a country have to do with Juventus' doping trial?

Oh that's right, nothing.


Yet some of us here feel the need to somehow drag Berlusconi and Milan into this because the majority of us here cannot handle the fact that Juventus did in fact take illegal performance enhancing substances during that time period.

Does that make them any different from the possibly numerous squads that indulged in such activity? No, except juve got caught.


But I see what the problem is here. The problem is the fact that Libero, a well-known in these parts Milanista started this thread, and since the majority of Juventini can't accept the cold hard fact, let's just try to shift the focus on something else, such as Berlusconi, who, as I'm reading through endless pages of tripe on this thread, (Libero and Nick's posts excluded) to my knowledge, still has nothing to do with the Doping trial.

Should Juve have been punished? of course they should. they cheated. Can't deny that fact, no matter how much some people in here want to turn this into an Anti-Berlusconi/ Anti-Milan rant.

Should the investigations stop here? No, they shouldn't. Maybe the governing bodies should delve deeper into some other squads who had unprecedented success during that time in question, to see if there is any sort of correlation between the two.

 

[Bjerknes]

At least Libero discusses the trial in a mature fashion, not a relentless, scathing attack on everything and everyone, like Nick.

 

[The Pado]

If people decide to NOT read Libero's post, then why do those same people respond to him. The accusations simply are contrary to what the man has posted. Too lazy to read a long post? Go take a nap. I have spoken.

 

[Kaiser Franco]

++ [ originally posted by Martin ] ++
Well then.. if I may.. Franco, do you think Berlusconi is "good for Italia"? Does he get results that others wouldn't? Does he believe in politics or does he just do it to affirm his influence?

I'd need 3 pages to respond you, but in a nutshell my opinion is that he has had a very negative impact on the EU stage, and this at a critical time when Italy's contribution would certainly have helped. His domestic record after three and a half years (a longevity record by Italian standards) isn't much worse than that of any Christian Democrat (the main party on the right before "Bribesville") government before him. He has made some good decisions and some disgraceful ones. Our economy is stagnant, but so are France's and Germany's, and at least unemployment is falling (down to 8% from 10%), though many of the jobs created are temporary. The eternal problem though is that even if he did "believe in politics", his enormous business interests and ability to model public opinion will always make you wonder whether his intentions are genuine or not. But Italians have elected him, so I guess that, unlike me, this doesn't bother them enough.

Sergio : thanks for saying it like it is.

 

[Eaglesnake_1]

Why dont we open a thread named "Berluscas farting " and keep this one in his original theme ???

 

[Kaiser Franco]

Or we could just stick to discussing football-related matters only.

 

[The Pado]

OK, so the only remaining item in the six year Juve trial is the appeal of Dr. Agricola, correct? Does anybody have a guess as to how long the next level of the appeal process will take? Have any dates been set?

 

[Eaglesnake_1]

Ancelotti assolve la Juve: "Troppi farmaci? Una forma di tutela per la salute"
Mer 15 Dic, 10:44 AM



Uno dei grandi ex della supersfida tra Juve e Milan di sabato siederà sulla panchina rossonera. Sembra passato un secolo ma Carlo Ancelotti, quattro anni fa era seduto su quella bianconera. E con lui la Juve arrivò per due volte a un passo dallo scudetto.

Intervistato da Repubblica tuttavia non sembra avvertire molta nostalgia: "Quella di sabato é una sfida importante che conta molto per lo scudetto, anche se non lo decide. La Juve é meno bella del mio Milan? Dipende, anche la praticità nel calcio può essere sinonimo di bellezza".


Sul processo che ha visto coinvolti i bianconeri ha le idee chiare: "Il processo é partito per giudicare l'abuso di sostanze lecite ed é arrivato all'Epo. Ma non é dimostrato che la Juve la usasse. La pratica sportiva abbassa le difese immunitarie: qualche farmaco in più é una forma di tutela per la salute".

Qualcuno dice che dopo il divorzio dalla Juve sia cambiato: "Non é vero - risponde Ancelotti - Anche a Torino ero duttile e decisionista. A Milano sto bene però in futuro non mi dispiacerebbe un'esperienza all'estero"

 

[Kaiser Franco]

++ [ originally posted by Padovano ] ++
OK, so the only remaining item in the six year Juve trial is the appeal of Dr. Agricola, correct? Does anybody have a guess as to how long the next level of the appeal process will take? Have any dates been set?

Not to my knowledge though it could take quite some time as usual. Agricola's sentence is quite a big remaining item tho don't you think:undecide:? As Sergio hinted, hopefully, but just hopefully, the doping trial will mark the start of a re-examination of certain practices which may have been (and/or still may be) widespread in professional football and of an in-depth re-thinking of its ethics.

 

[Eaglesnake_1]

++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


Not to my knowledge though it could take quite some time as usual. Agricola's sentence is quite a big remaining item tho don't you think:undecide:? As Sergio hinted, hopefully, but just hopefully, the doping trial will mark the start of a re-examination of certain practices which may have been (and/or still may be) widespread in professional football and of an in-depth re-thinking of its ethics.

I frankly doubt so....UEFA and FIFA doesnt seeems to eager to do so....probably they are afraid about the dirt they can find if they do a in-depth investigation in european big teams....

 

[The Pado]

Libero, if I am correct, Dr. Agricola has already been sentenced - 22 months suspended sentence. It is appeal of this conviction that is left, and yes, I do think that is a very important piece to this trial.