The Doped Lady (2 Viewers)

[Kaiser Franco]

La requisitoria di uno dei pm nel processo di Torino: "Somministrazione cronica, a basse dosi, e acuta, a Conte e Tacchinardi per affrettarne il recupero".

TORINO, 15 ottobre 2004 - "Ai giocatori della Juventus è stata data l'Epo. Lo dimostra l'analisi dei valori dell'emoglobina nel sangue degli atleti che è stata effettuata dal perito Giuseppe D'Onofrio. Ci sono indizi gravi, precisi e concordanti. La somministrazione è stata di due tipi: quella cronica, a basse dosi, e quella acuta, fatta a Conte e Tacchinardi per affrettare il loro recupero". È una delle tesi ribadite da uno dei due pm, Gianfranco Colace, nel corso della requisitoria della pubblica accusa al processo per i farmaci ai calciatori bianconeri. Gran parte della mattinata è stata dedicata a questo argomento, mentre la pm Sara Panelli ha aperto l'intervento soffermandosi sulle implicazioni del reato di frode sportiva (la legge 401 del 1989) contestato ad Antonio Giraudo e Riccardo Agricola, amministratore delegato e capo dello staff medico della Juventus.
Il processo Juve è entrato dunque nella sua fase conclusiva. Questa mattina, infatti, intorno alle 9.30 è incominciata la requisitoria che si concluderà con le richieste dei pm. Dopo l'udienza della scorsa settimana, caratterizzata da tensioni, polemiche e colpi di scena, questa mattina il pool difensivo dell'amministratore delegato e del capo dello staff medico della Juventus, Antonio Giraudo e Riccardo Agricola, è tornato regolarmente in aula.
Già ieri i legali avevano motivato la decisione di riprendere la difesa parlando di senso di responsabilità e questa mattina l'avvocato Luigi Piazzero ha ribadito che quanto accaduto la scorsa settimana non era stato determinato dalla volontà di ritardare lo svolgimento del processo e che a dimostrarlo è proprio la presenza in aula dei difensori di fiducia. All'udienza di questa mattina assistono anche il presidente dell'Ordine degli avvocati Antonio Rossomando e il procuratore capo di Torino Marcello Maddalena che alla domanda sui motivi della sua presenza ha risposto di essere "stupito del vostro stupore" ricordando poi di essere stato più volte presente al processo.














In a nutshell...you're busted!

 

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[The Arif]

Can you translate it?

 

[Sid]

???

 

[Zlatanfan]

My italian is not as good as my dutch so could you explain wha't's it about?

 

[Kaiser Franco]

Today is the summing-up of the prosecution, according to which blood tests have revealed the routine administration of EPO to Juve players. EPO has been given on a regular basis albeit in lower quantities to some players, and in particular it has been given in higher quantities to Conte and Tacchinardi to accelerate their recovery.

Ok technically you're not busted yet, but it looks a lot like you are about to be.

 

[Geof]

But at the time it was given to some players it was still legal, no? That's what I heared, I can be wrong.

What punishments do we risk?

 

[denco]

I was reading some stuff in a magazine about this case and what has come out and what has allegedly be taken by some players again allegedly through no knowledge of theirs

But its been said that EPO in reasonably high doses by Tachinardi and Conte, in low doses by Dp and Deschamps
Voleran or something like that was given to players like Vialli and Baggio
Inzaghi and Vieri had some other drug administered to them to help them beat flu and some others

Now we might have won all those titles with or without the aid of these substances

But my biggest grieviance is that you see almost every season Dp, Baggio, Vieri, Inzaghi and Conte with a lesser amount Tachinardi and others always having injuries in almost every season they play, usually muscular problems

My question to those who may have or may have not have doped up these boys, was it worth it?

Was it worth it that a huge talent like Dp is reduced to what he is today? A player who cannot go more that 2 months without pulling something because he was born frail and in this silly world of football today where players have to be athletic, you illegally built him muscles his body could not take

Was it worth it , that Vieri who should have gone down as one of Italy best ever strikers is now reduced to a mockery of a footballer cos injuries have taken their toll? Compare the skinny guy who just joined Juve to the hulk he is now

Tacchinardi may have gone on to be a great player but look at him now, being kept out by a player as limited as Blasi

Montero is another one who always seems to suffer from muscular injuries as well as Ferrara (well he just might be old age)

Tudor is another classical example

The club may escape without any punishments but at what price to these players

You might argue that the players are adults and no way did not know what they are been given but if your doctor says he is giving you vitamins, who are you to argue that he is not telling the truth

 

[«ƒÕ®zå JüV€»]

so basicly these drugs are to accelarate them or to help them ignore such muscalar injuries??
i heard that almost 6 percent of the time the players dont know what they are taking and are just told that these r just vitamns as denco said.

 

[KB824]

Dennis, don't you think that you're underestimating a players intelligence in regards to knowing what he should or shouldn't be putting into his body?

I'm sorry if I seem to come across as having little to no sympathy for these players, but unless there is evidence that they were forced/coerced into taking these drugs, then as a player, no better yet, as a human being, one would assume that you never put anything like that into your body without at least doing some casual research on what it is. Even if the doctor is telling you that its vitamins or some other kind of wonder tonic, my motto is, if you've never heard of it, don't trust it until you find out what it is. One would assume that "vitamins" or whatever they wanted to call it, isn't supposed to increase your muscle mass by more than 50%, unless these players really are as ignorant as they seem.


I hope that they do come down hard on Juve for this, if only for the reason that a team of their stature and prominence needs to be made an example of, so that it sends out warning signals to the rest of football's powerhouses that you are not above reproach. If they need to be the scapegoat and suffer now for the betterment of football in the future, then so be it.

 

[_Emerson]

Dont you know how it works, you do as the clubs staff say, or else you get "fired", they have to trust Agricola, because he is Juve's professional doctor. The players job is to play football, not to reject medicins from Agricola. Anyway nothing of it was/are illegal though.

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by _Emerson ] ++
Dont you know how it works, you do as the clubs staff say, or else you get "fired", they have to trust Agricola, because he is Juve's professional doctor. The players job is to play football, not to reject medicins from Agricola. Anyway nothing of it was/are illegal though.

So, according to your theory then, the team itself acted illegaly, and therefore should be punished.

 

[_Emerson]

++ [ originally posted by Sergio ] ++


So, according to your theory then, the team itself acted illegaly, and therefore should be punished.

what are you talking about?, who has said they did anything illegal? there is no evidence of use of anything illegal....

 

[denco]

Yes Sergio , and how are you by the by?

You are kinda assuming that these players would know what all vitamins look like by sight

As a footballer or even as a human being if you were told that this particular drug will relieve your pain quicker than another drug and were actually told by your doctor, would you dispute it?

We are talking about players who wanna get back to the thick of the action or in some cases players who are fearful of losing their places , so would not wanna be out for a very long time

Would you willing to get a second opinion from another doctor if when you have used this so called vitamin, you feel a lot better and fitter

I am not saying for 1 second that they are totally oblivious to the fact but if my doctor prescribed a drug to me, I would not be seeking a second opinion if I feel so much better in record time

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by _Emerson ] ++


what are you talking about?, who has said they did anything illegal? there is no evidence of use of anything illegal....

So you're telling me that using EPO, a banned substance, is not illegal in the football world??

 

[_Emerson]

++ [ originally posted by Sergio ] ++


So you're telling me that using EPO, a banned substance, is not illegal in the football world??

And who are you?, were the hell has you got it from that Juve used EPO? are you a fan or not?, they have no evidence of EPO, its just accusations since Juve was so strong at that time!

 

[denco]

++ [ originally posted by _Emerson ] ++


And who are you?, were the hell has you got it from that Juve used EPO? are you a fan or not?, they have no evidence of EPO, its just accusations since Juve was so strong at that time!

What has been a fan got to do with the fact that a team used Epo on their players? Are you saying Ben Johnson or Dwain Chambers do not have fans?
In court it was traces of EPO were found in the blood stream of certain players

 

[_Emerson]

They DIDNT USE EPO!

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
Yes Sergio , and how are you by the by?

You are kinda assuming that these players would know what all vitamins look like by sight

As a footballer or even as a human being if you were told that this particular drug will relieve your pain quicker than another drug and were actually told by your doctor, would you dispute it?

We are talking about players who wanna get back to the thick of the action or in some cases players who are fearful of losing their places , so would not wanna be out for a very long time

Would you willing to get a second opinion from another doctor if when you have used this so called vitamin, you feel a lot better and fitter

I am not saying for 1 second that they are totally oblivious to the fact but if my doctor prescribed a drug to me, I would not be seeking a second opinion if I feel so much better in record time

Dennis, I am very well, thank you for asking. Good talking to you again. How's that e-mail working?

Would I be willing to get a second opinion? Yes, I would, especially if I'm starting to notice physical changes in my body a La a Del Piero or a Vieri. I came from an athletic enviroment in my high school and college days (American Football) where anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing drugs were rampant, to the point where my high school team had a janitor whose sole purpose was to dispose of steroid needles before training sessions. Thankfully, I never partook in such activites and am thankful for it, for unlike some of my former teammates, I am not dead, have cancer at an early age, or fly into a hormonal rage if someone blinks at me the wrong way. I've seen this crap firsthand and what it can do, and mind you, this was back in the late 80's/early 90's when information about such substances wasn't as readily available as it was even a few years later, during the time when Juve was handing out these pills like candy.

And I, nor I'm sure anyone else, would expect these players to be able to recognize a performance enhancing drug or steroid on sight, however, common sense should tell you to ask what it is, and if you get a terse response from a doctor whom you are supposed to trust, that should automatically cause someone to think about what they are taking.

 

[KB824]

++ [ originally posted by _Emerson ] ++


And who are you?, were the hell has you got it from that Juve used EPO? are you a fan or not?, they have no evidence of EPO, its just accusations since Juve was so strong at that time!

What does this have to do with being a fan or not? If they used illegal substances, then they should be punished. I can't see where there is a gray area here.

So as a fan, if they did in fact use these substances, I'm supposed to just sweep it under the rug and pretend as if it never happened?

 

[Kaiser Franco]

++ [ originally posted by denco ] ++
I was reading some stuff in a magazine about this case and what has come out and what has allegedly be taken by some players again allegedly through no knowledge of theirs

But its been said that EPO in reasonably high doses by Tachinardi and Conte, in low doses by Dp and Deschamps
Voleran or something like that was given to players like Vialli and Baggio
Inzaghi and Vieri had some other drug administered to them to help them beat flu and some others

Now we might have won all those titles with or without the aid of these substances

But my biggest grieviance is that you see almost every season Dp, Baggio, Vieri, Inzaghi and Conte with a lesser amount Tachinardi and others always having injuries in almost every season they play, usually muscular problems

My question to those who may have or may have not have doped up these boys, was it worth it?

Was it worth it that a huge talent like Dp is reduced to what he is today? A player who cannot go more that 2 months without pulling something because he was born frail and in this silly world of football today where players have to be athletic, you illegally built him muscles his body could not take

Was it worth it , that Vieri who should have gone down as one of Italy best ever strikers is now reduced to a mockery of a footballer cos injuries have taken their toll? Compare the skinny guy who just joined Juve to the hulk he is now

Tacchinardi may have gone on to be a great player but look at him now, being kept out by a player as limited as Blasi

Montero is another one who always seems to suffer from muscular injuries as well as Ferrara (well he just might be old age)

Tudor is another classical example

The club may escape without any punishments but at what price to these players

You might argue that the players are adults and no way did not know what they are been given but if your doctor says he is giving you vitamins, who are you to argue that he is not telling the truth

Good to see a Juve fan not willing to believe that Vialli, Dp et al did double their muscular masse in a few months just by eating white meat and drinking water.

I still disagree with the last part though, regarding the players' "unawareness". I have been long denouncing the experiments of the Dr Strangelove's of sports medicine, but I am not going to cry over the fate of the football player who was allegedly drugged against his will. Correct me if Im wrong, but EPO is administered through injection, so if your doctor is putting a spike into your vein to cure asthma, aren't you going to at least WONDER if there isn't more to it??

The answer of course is : "no, because in the next 5 years I am going to make enough money to feed me, my family and my descendants for the next 100 years, so Im not going to let this little needle annoy me." Not even if you die at 35 of cancer, heart-attack, Lou Gehirig's disease (remember Signorini?) or from an overdosis since all that drug-taking has now made you an addict (Pantani anyone?)?

So I definitely don't feel sorry for the players : they KNOW what's going on, but they chose to abide by the mafia-like law of silence that dominates modern sports and are therefore the partners in crime of the Dr Strangeloves. A testament to this fact is that whenever one of them chooses to admit to taking drugs (this has happened repeatedly in cycling), he is systematically marginalized and treated like a pariah by his colleagues.