The Doped Lady (1 Viewer)

_Emerson

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2004
1,109
#21
++ [ originally posted by Sergio ] ++


What does this have to do with being a fan or not? If they used illegal substances, then they should be punished. I can't see where there is a gray area here.

So as a fan, if they did in fact use these substances, I'm supposed to just sweep it under the rug and pretend as if it never happened?
But there is no evidence of anything illegal, all they physically discovered were that some players had higher blood levels, but that can come from alot of things. Usually its other teams fans who accuse Juve for this. Ive seen alot of tv programs about this, and there is NO evidence or anything else to think that Juve used dope. Only creatine and medicins and thats not illegal.
 
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Kaiser Franco
Dec 27, 2003
1,979
#22
++ [ originally posted by Geof ] ++
But at the time it was given to some players it was still legal, no? That's what I heared, I can be wrong.

What punishments do we risk?

EPO has never been legal : it's a growth hormone that has been created in the 90's and is still quite hard to detect to this day (in fact, the most efficient way to determine its use is to measure the hematocrite rate in an athlete's blood). Its use has been known to be widespread in cycling and atheltics for some time now, but not in football so far.

I think you might be confusing EPO with creatine, which does remain legal (though not harmless) and which Juve players (such as Vieri and Zidane) have admitted to make use of.

Punishments you say? This is Italy, my friend! Criminals are not punished here, they are elected!
 

KB824

Senior Member
Sep 16, 2003
31,539
#23
Libero, what ramifications could come of this, if any, have you heard about?

I find it quite hard to believe that the prosecution would go through all of this to simply impose a slap on the wrist.
 

_Emerson

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2004
1,109
#24
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++



Good to see a Juve fan not willing to believe that Vialli, Dp et al did double their muscular masse in a few months just by eating white meat and drinking water.
You should know that creatine wasnt and isnt illegal!!!, its not dope!
 
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Kaiser Franco
Dec 27, 2003
1,979
#25
++ [ originally posted by Sergio ] ++
Libero, what ramifications could come of this, if any, have you heard about?

I find it quite hard to believe that the prosecution would go through all of this to simply impose a slap on the wrist.
I don't know, going by previous experiences I expect Juve to appeal ad nauseam until the charges fall under statute of limitations.

I wish I had the time to do some research on the matter, but just when it looked like I was going to have a quiet week-end I have received this urgent project for Monday :down:
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
35,986
#28
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++



Good to see a Juve fan not willing to believe that Vialli, Dp et al did double their muscular masse in a few months just by eating white meat and drinking water.
It's possible to increase your muscular mass a lot in just a few months time. Question remains of course whether they did it legally.
 

Geof

Senior Member
May 14, 2004
6,740
#29
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
I think you might be confusing EPO with creatine, which does remain legal (though not harmless) and which Juve players (such as Vieri and Zidane) have admitted to make use of.

that must be it. sorry for the confusion!
 

Erkka

Senior Member
Mar 31, 2004
3,863
#31
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++

I think you might be confusing EPO with creatine, which does remain legal (though not harmless)
Actually creatine is harmless, I use it too you know...

Don't know about these EPO-things, I don't believe that football is clean as sport at all, but I don't believe that we were the only ones being stupid enough to get punished for it... I believe that everybodyg use doping in football and in other sports, it's even quite obvious when you think of it... And this trial is a laughing stock, politics are involved in this just too obviously...
 
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Kaiser Franco
Dec 27, 2003
1,979
#32
Creatine is hardly harmless : it's just too new a product for researchers to determine its LONG-TERM effects. Its SHORT-TERM effects however are already known : stomach and kidney disturbances, increased risk of dehydration and - surprise, surprise - greater exposure to muscular problems.
 

Cronios

Juventolog
Jun 7, 2004
26,548
#33
++ [ originally posted by Erkka ] ++


Actually creatine is harmless, I use it too you know...

Don't know about these EPO-things, I don't believe that football is clean as sport at all, but I don't believe that we were the only ones being stupid enough to get punished for it... I believe that everybodyg use doping in football and in other sports, it's even quite obvious when you think of it... And this trial is a laughing stock, politics are involved in this just too obviously...

i suggest u to stop administrating creatine right now, if u still wonna have a working liver the next years;)
to obtain some muscle u need atleast the 12 shots for a start, but it doesnt worth it,
my gym instructor after 7years has become...
not exactly what he wished to be,
of course 77%havent the same problem,but they do have other.
everybody heard the bachini thing,
i ve seen with my own eyes football players taking stuff without having the slightest idea what they can do to their organism(testosteron),
17year old, kids, playing for unknown teams hoping they will become great... athlets,
players who play once a week, acnt handle the programme and want to become better with a magic drug,
playing in a profesional league, in a superperformance team like juve along with the best players of the world, 2-3 games per week, leaves u no choice.
And if u dont do it someone else will and take ur place,
this is the real world,
juve didnt make it,
but has to survive it.
if ur life is football a thing like this can t stop u,
well atleast ALL the today's pro's didn't,
juve is a top club, with top tech and people in every way,
it is said, our stuff is one of the best outhere, for decades.
we also have many enemies, there is an official research on us from an italian member of judiciary.
its very unfair because all the clubs in europe have the same rules,
besides maby the shedish;)
you simply cant play 90' with or against the beast,
davids without a little help.
wich doesnt give u an advantage really, cause everybody else does it,
it just helps u from the handicape,
i saw with my own eyes the difference on chivu's body,
i am a doctor to be and a hard worker on the gym,
3months in roma made him onother man,
if u dont believe it u just close ur eyes on it,
its the reallity,
its very very unfair that juve and only sould be accused of it.
besides better endurance, stamina and power doesnt make u something,
on football talent is something u cant replace.
but combine them it gives u the advantage,
u can give quantity for quallity,
run faster than dribble,
jump higher than jump exactly the right milisecond.
dopamine is the main enemy exactly because gives edvantages like that,
if players based on dribling like alex are forced to use stuff, that means that they just have to keep up with the rest wich normally wouldnt be a serius problem for them,
if the game was clear they just dont need it.
but who has the courage to speak about maldini,gattuso,vieri, roberto carlos etc
juve and alex are always the easy victim,
especially without the great avocato support him
 

Azzurri7

Pinturicchio
Moderator
Dec 16, 2003
72,660
#34
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++



EPO has never been legal : it's a growth hormone that has been created in the 90's and is still quite hard to detect to this day (in fact, the most efficient way to determine its use is to measure the hematocrite rate in an athlete's blood). Its use has been known to be widespread in cycling and atheltics for some time now, but not in football so far.

I think you might be confusing EPO with creatine, which does remain legal (though not harmless) and which Juve players (such as Vieri and Zidane) have admitted to make use of.

Punishments you say? This is Italy, my friend! Criminals are not punished here, they are elected!
Then why didn't they close the case yet..?
 

Vinman

2013 Prediction Cup Champ
Jul 16, 2002
11,480
#35
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++
Creatine is hardly harmless : it's just too new a product for researchers to determine its LONG-TERM effects. Its SHORT-TERM effects however are already known : stomach and kidney disturbances, increased risk of dehydration and - surprise, surprise - greater exposure to muscular problems.
Not true...

I use creatine right now, and have used it a bunch of times in the last 7 years. I have never had a problem, and get blood tests regularly.

To be honest, I haven't noticed anything too beneficial about it, but am still trying...........

I am curious to know exactly what steroids, if any, DP and Vieri have used.

Steroids cause muscle growth, but have NO positive effects on your tendons and joints. Thats where problems start. Your muscles grow and you get stronger, but your joints and tendons cant take the extra workload- which can lead to strains, tears, and complete breakdown...

Sound familiar ???????????????????????????
 
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Kaiser Franco
Dec 27, 2003
1,979
#37
++ [ originally posted by azzurri7 ] ++


Then why didn't they close the case yet..?
Because Juve's Dr Strangeloves have to look like the innocent guys who are the victim of a communist conspiracy in order to be eligible.

When Agricola is dismissed, Berlusconi will make him his new Health Minister, in spite of the Opposition's protests about the blatant conflict of interests there is between his activity as Juve's physician and his holding a government position. Giraudo will replace Siniscalco as Finance Minister : his first reform will be to legalize the trading of Zalayeta. Finally, Moggi will be the government's spokesman to the press.
 
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Kaiser Franco
Dec 27, 2003
1,979
#38
++ [ originally posted by Vinman ] ++


Not true...

I use creatine right now, and have used it a bunch of times in the last 7 years. I have never had a problem, and get blood tests regularly.

To be honest, I haven't noticed anything too beneficial about it, but am still trying...........

I am curious to know exactly what steroids, if any, DP and Vieri have used.
Hey Im not making up stuff here. Im just repeating what physicians, coaches etc say. These are the possible adverse effects of creatine in the short term, while we have no idea yet of what it can cause in the long term. Just because you didn't experience any of these doesn't mean they are non-existent.

According to the prosecution, DP (I don't know about Vieri) might have absorbed EPO.
 

Erkka

Senior Member
Mar 31, 2004
3,863
#39
me and my friends haven't got any problems so far either... And Kaiser, you do admit the political connections of this trial, don't you?!
 

Geof

Senior Member
May 14, 2004
6,740
#40
++ [ originally posted by Kaiser Franco ] ++


Because Juve's Dr Strangeloves have to look like the innocent guys who are the victim of a communist conspiracy in order to be eligible.

When Agricola is dismissed, Berlusconi will make him his new Health Minister, in spite of the Opposition's protests about the blatant conflict of interests there is between his activity as Juve's physician and his holding a government position. Giraudo will replace Siniscalco as Finance Minister : his first reform will be to legalize the trading of Zalayeta. Finally, Moggi will be the government's spokesman to the press.

wtf? this sounds like a bad movie from the 70's... :rolleyes:
 

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