The Apple Thread (1 Viewer)

Majed

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,630
#1
Inspired by the many Linux related discussions, I think it's about time that more people have gotten familiar with the elegant alternative to Windows, the MAC. Here's the place to get to know it better.

This thread doesn't just stop at MAC; Discuss anything related to Apple, the innovative software company that brought you the MAC, the iPod, as well as introduced to the personal computer world with the mouse and the graphical user interface.

[Apple Wiki]

Now whether you love this company and want to stay up to date with what's going on, despise it and want to bash it for targeting the masses (ipod), or just don't know jack about it and want to learn, then this is the place to be.



:stress: That sounded like a gym-set infomercial! :D
 

Buy on AliExpress.com

Slagathor

Bedpan racing champion
Jul 25, 2001
22,708
#2
I'm interested in a purchasing a Mac, anything significant that I can do/experience on Windows that I can't experience on a Mac?

I know I'll have to say goodbye to MS Paint, for example :sad::D
 
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Majed

Majed

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Jul 17, 2002
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  • Thread Starter #3
    Erik-with-a-k said:
    I'm interested in a purchasing a Mac, anything significant that I can do/experience on Windows that I can't experience on a Mac?

    I know I'll have to say goodbye to MS Paint, for example :sad::D
    All our representatives are currently busy. Please wait.









    :D

    ....

    I actually found a little application called Seashore that's pretty much what i'm looking for. As simple to use and as light as MS paint, but with more features.
     

    Martin

    Senior Member
    Dec 31, 2000
    56,913
    #5
    Majed said:
    :stress: That sounded like a gym-set infomercial! :D[/COLOR]
    You're good at these :D

    To hijack your thread at the first opportunity, I've come to generally dislike the commercial software world for the way it is. FOSS is a completely different way of living, whether or not the products are the same or better/worse, it's just so much nicer the very process.

    To give you an example, last week I wanted to get started with mono, so I found out the mono documentation is very incomplete and generally really sucky. But mono is just an implementation of .NET across a wide set of platforms, so I started looking for some .NET documentation. I gotta tell you finding docs in FOSS land is a lot easier than navigating microsoft.com. When I finally found it, there's only the online version available. Turns out they will let you download the docs in something called ".NET SDK", which is basically docs bundled with the doc viewer and some minor development tools. So I download it and it's a bloody executable. On Windoze I installed it, works fine. But I want to use the docs on my system. They're in some kind of mangled "windows help file" format, remember those? The .chm's? There is even a viewer for them in linux. But it's not those, it's some new incredibly improved windows help format which looks and feels exactly the same as the old one.

    Now, it's hardly MS' fault that I can't open those files on my system, it's not like they anticipated years ago, before mono even was created, that someone would want to open their help files in linux. But the format being proprietary, noone knows how it works. You'd have to reverse engineer it to use it. Which someone has. There is an app for coverting the new help files to old style help files or indeed to a range of other formats. The app was written by some Russian dude and is shareware, which means it won't let you use it on big document until you register. So now I have to find a crack for this incredibly stupid app which should never have had a reason to exist in the first place.

    It's that kind of bs that comes out of proprietary software firms, everything is closed off and unaccessible. In linux if you want to change the logo on boot, you open up the source, pray to your God of choice and dive in. On Windows you have to get an application called Window Blinds or whatever that will let you do this, which again is reverse engineered because noone has the fecking source. It's the spread of information that is so damn restricted, there's no sharing. So many FOSS projects have been born out of the existence of some project which never got anywhere but still developed the technology to accomplish some specific thing, which just turns out to be useful in a completely different project.

    Users don't see this, for them it's a question of free beer vs paid, but for those interested in software and technology, it's bloody awful.

    Apple is less bad than Windows, but it's still commercial and neesd to look after its interests, which means you can't open it up and make it interoperate with other stuff beyond what Apple do themselves to that end (in my impression quite a lot).

    [/rant]
     
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    Majed

    Majed

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    Jul 17, 2002
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  • Thread Starter #8
    Martin said:
    You're good at these :D

    To hijack your thread at the first opportunity, I've come to generally dislike the commercial software world for the way it is. FOSS is a completely different way of living, whether or not the products are the same or better/worse, it's just so much nicer the very process.

    To give you an example, last week I wanted to get started with mono, so I found out the mono documentation is very incomplete and generally really sucky. But mono is just an implementation of .NET across a wide set of platforms, so I started looking for some .NET documentation. I gotta tell you finding docs in FOSS land is a lot easier than navigating microsoft.com. When I finally found it, there's only the online version available. Turns out they will let you download the docs in something called ".NET SDK", which is basically docs bundled with the doc viewer and some minor development tools. So I download it and it's a bloody executable. On Windoze I installed it, works fine. But I want to use the docs on my system. They're in some kind of mangled "windows help file" format, remember those? The .chm's? There is even a viewer for them in linux. But it's not those, it's some new incredibly improved windows help format which looks and feels exactly the same as the old one.

    Now, it's hardly MS' fault that I can't open those files on my system, it's not like they anticipated years ago, before mono even was created, that someone would want to open their help files in linux. But the format being proprietary, noone knows how it works. You'd have to reverse engineer it to use it. Which someone has. There is an app for coverting the new help files to old style help files or indeed to a range of other formats. The app was written by some Russian dude and is shareware, which means it won't let you use it on big document until you register. So now I have to find a crack for this incredibly stupid app which should never have had a reason to exist in the first place.

    It's that kind of bs that comes out of proprietary software firms, everything is closed off and unaccessible. In linux if you want to change the logo on boot, you open up the source, pray to your God of choice and dive in. On Windows you have to get an application called Window Blinds or whatever that will let you do this, which again is reverse engineered because noone has the fecking source. It's the spread of information that is so damn restricted, there's no sharing. So many FOSS projects have been born out of the existence of some project which never got anywhere but still developed the technology to accomplish some specific thing, which just turns out to be useful in a completely different project.

    Users don't see this, for them it's a question of free beer vs paid, but for those interested in software and technology, it's bloody awful.

    Apple is less bad than Windows, but it's still commercial and neesd to look after its interests, which means you can't open it up and make it interoperate with other stuff beyond what Apple do themselves to that end (in my impression quite a lot).

    [/rant]
    I understand your frustration and agree for the most part. Then again, I also see that most people in the world aren't as tech-savey as you and even I. IMO, FOSS is not ready for the masses. Many, people have a sh!tty time trying to install Adobe acrobat, so imagine the wars of frustration that will erupt if they needed to know what download suited their kernel version, let alone unarchived it and installed it.

    People are learning fast, but the things in the IT world are changing just as fast. Whether we like it or not, but also, they way FOSS is spread makes it tougher to manage/integrate.

    On the side FOSS is greate, but I have to support Apple in that they are innovative and their pieces work well together, albeit at the price of being proprietary.
     
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    Majed

    Majed

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  • Thread Starter #9
    Erik-with-a-k said:
    To answer your Q, for most users, there's not much that you can do on a mac that you can't on windows. It really depends on your current windows usage. Besides browsing the net, using office suites, using multimedia applications, what do you do on your PC?
     

    Slagathor

    Bedpan racing champion
    Jul 25, 2001
    22,708
    #10
    Majed said:
    To answer your Q, for most users, there's not much that you can do on a mac that you can't on windows. It really depends on your current windows usage. Besides browsing the net, using office suites, using multimedia applications, what do you do on your PC?
    There's a few key things that I do/need:
    * A solid word processing program
    * Multimedia applications (VLC player is alright, iTunes is awful, Realplayer bareable)
    * Internet related business (Firefox and the likes)
    * Making/editing my own website (macromedia dreamweaver I appreciate, Filezilla is a good ftp client)

    That's roughly it. From what I gathered there's no problems doing any of the above on a mac. Just that it would take some time getting used to a new system. If there's bugs in windows (ok not if, but when), I know how to fix them. With a mac, that could be tricky.
     
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    Majed

    Majed

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  • Thread Starter #11
    Erik-with-a-k said:
    There's a few key things that I do/need:
    [1]* A solid word processing program
    [2]* Multimedia applications (VLC player is alright, iTunes is awful, Realplayer bareable)
    [3]* Internet related business (Firefox and the likes)
    [4]* Making/editing my own website (macromedia dreamweaver I appreciate, Filezilla is a good ftp client)

    That's roughly it. From what I gathered there's no problems doing any of the above on a mac. Just that it would take some time getting used to a new system. If there's bugs in windows (ok not if, but when), I know how to fix them. With a mac, that could be tricky.
    You're right, it's not a problem doing the above. You may find these points helpful:
    [1]
    * MS Office Word is available on the mac. It is pretty stable and actually has more features than MS Word for Windows!
    * You can port Openoffice.og, which is popular on linux, to MAC OSX, but it's a bit of a hassle to use.
    * Mellel is popular, but i haven't used it.
    * iText is a word processor. Solid and light, but this may not be for you if you need a lot of advanced features.


    [2]
    You're more than covered when it comes to multimedia as MAC is ahead of MS. It's got everything from VLC, Real player, DivX player to Windows media player.

    [3] MAC supports all the major browsers. (Firefox, Opera, the Mozilla Suite). It's own browser Safari is pretty good too. It even has an older version of IE.

    [4]
    macromedia dreamweaver is also available. The Terminal also does FTP. If you want a graphical interface, then NcFTP is good for you.


    ...........

    Unless you use your PC like Martin, you can pretty much get what you want. Though not as many as windows, loads of applications are available.

    The best place to start looking for OS X applications is at versiontracker.


    ..........

    As for getting used to the system, I don't think it'll take that much time as it's not that much different than any other OS. It may be frustrating at first, but the "wow" factor that you'll initially get makes up for that. You'll see that it's pretty intuitive to use, and you'll quickly get over your windows "shackles" :D

    For example, to install most applications, you just download it, double click the container that it's in to show the application itself, then copy the application to your applications folder, then close the container (you'll see an "eject/umount" botton).

    To remove the program, just go to the "applications" folder, and drag the single application file into the trash.
     
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    Majed

    Majed

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  • Thread Starter #14
    To be honest, there are a few things that WILL piss you off:
    1. Using keyboard shortcuts, you can't cut a file then paste it somewhere else. You'll have to copy it somewhere else, then delete it at the first location. Drag-and-drop works fine, but personally, i'm not a fan of it.
    2. The single mouse button. You can buy a regular mouse.
    3. On the keyboard, the backspace is named "delete. But to perform the windows "delete" (known is forward delete), you will have to hold down the "fn" (function) key and hit "delete"
     

    Slagathor

    Bedpan racing champion
    Jul 25, 2001
    22,708
    #16
    Majed said:
    To be honest, there are a few things that WILL piss you off:
    1. Using keyboard shortcuts, you can't cut a file then paste it somewhere else. You'll have to copy it somewhere else, then delete it at the first location. Drag-and-drop works fine, but personally, i'm not a fan of it.
    2. The single mouse button. You can buy a regular mouse.
    3. On the keyboard, the backspace is named "delete. But to perform the windows "delete" (known is forward delete), you will have to hold down the "fn" (function) key and hit "delete"
    The mouse is weird, yeah. But I intend to get a laptop and I never use an extra mouse/keyboard when I'm on my laptop anyway.

    The delete thing is gonna kill me :D
     

    Eddy

    The Maestro
    Aug 20, 2005
    12,644
    #18
    Majed said:
    What do you mean?
    A computer processor which would be useful and much more compact for editing and entertainment. One for all, all for one. But obviously it's never going to happen.
     
    OP
    Majed

    Majed

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  • Thread Starter #19
    Erik-with-a-k said:
    The mouse is weird, yeah. But I intend to get a laptop and I never use an extra mouse/keyboard when I'm on my laptop anyway.

    The delete thing is gonna kill me :D
    Wouldn't you still be used to a right click button? Are you sure you are "fine" with only one button (below the trackpad)? :D
     
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    Majed

    Majed

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  • Thread Starter #20
    edpiero said:
    A computer processor which would be useful and much more compact for editing and entertainment. One for all, all for one. But obviously it's never going to happen.
    edpiero said:
    It would be nice if MAC and Windows collaborated.
    If you mean if they joined forces to make a smaller machine that carries the features of both, then I disagree. IMO, competition is a healthier way to improve.
     

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