got it, thanks for the detailed response, i pretty much agree with all you say but cant but feel this turkish thing is kinda related to the syrian issue.
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Türkiye (21 Viewers)
- Thread starter Martin
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got it, thanks for the detailed response, i pretty much agree with all you say but cant but feel this turkish thing is kinda related to the syrian issue.
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i heard an opinion about this move in turkey reflecting the fears people have of this newly founded "islamic rule" belt. note in every country ruled by a religiously based group or party has seen its fair share of violence, and media censorship mainly. ( i dont know about tunisia but in egypt alcohol is not banned for instance., yet. they wanted to filter the internet bec who needs to guarantee food supplies when you can ban our biggest problem boobs and ass!! i think the biggest sign the people are rejecting this extremist views, is the way women are being treated in egypt. less freedoms, i cant even describe the level of sexual harassment we've reached in just 9 month) egypt and tunisia leading the way of rejecting this form of authoritarian rule, bec we didnt remove mubarak to get another version but with a beard. the question remains are these fears worth rioting in turkey? in egypt and tunisia i say yes, specially in egypt considering i live here and i witness the reactions yr average egyptain has towards these "beard's who r coming to re-teach us religion instead of minding there own business" or my favourite " they r a bunch of jinxes." i mention these quotes which are heard in the open and not just whispered, i mention this so u can note the picture. in my opinion i think the arab spring was hi-jacked but the islamic parties who claim to have more rights to getting in power after years of torture, starting with nasser's prisons and ending up with mubarak religious resorts for the muslim brotherhood who were in bed with mubarak and every one knows this, hell they didnt mind mubarak's son gamal reaching to power. so religion is just the chewing gum that has been chewed and spit a million times just for them to get to power. note the ultra conservative salafists have been given the finger this past week by the muslim brotherhood who used them like a thai transvestite.
Here's What You Need to Know about the Clashes in Turkey
Has the government of Prime Minister Erdogan finally succumbed to the authoritarian impulses that doomed so many other Turkish leaders before him?
ANKARA, May 31 -- As I write these words in my Ankara hotel in the early morning hours, I can still hear the distant voices of massed demonstrators chanting slogans a few blocks from the presidential palace and the prime minister's residence. Thousands of people are continuing to protest the government and its deeply undemocratic actions. The TV is showing images of the brutal police attack against peaceful demonstrators that took place earlier today in Istanbul's Taksim Square.
The clashes in Istanbul go on as I write: Emergency rooms in the hospitals near Taksim are struggling to cope with the hundreds of people injured by the police. Earlier today in Ankara, where the protests have so far remained largely peaceful, I've watched protestors linking arms to form human chains blocking the streets. What struck me the most was the reaction from ordinary people. Rather than protesting the snarled traffic caused by the demonstrators, Ankarans passing by in their cars supported the protestors by honking and waving victory signs from their windows.
Over the past few weeks I've been taking some of my students from the United States on a trip around Turkey. The aim of our trip has been to explore the pros and cons of the country's development experience. We started with the early days of the republic (overshadowed by the war for independence, ethnic cleansing, authoritarianism, forced cultural modernization, and economic failures) and have worked our way up to the challenges that shape the country today (democratization, the Kurdish conflict, the rise of the current Islamist government, and the tensions between secular Kemalism and religious politics). I've done my best to help my students see the forty shades of blue separating the empty half of the glass from the part that's full.
There's no denying that Turkey is now a thriving emerging market economy with a vibrant civil society. Istanbul last year attracted more tourists than Amsterdam or Rome, ranking right behind London and Paris in the number of tourist arrivals. There are more arts concerts in Istanbul in a given month than in a year in most E.U. member states. On the economic front, the inflation rate has been brought down from 100 percent just a few years ago to below 10 percent today. Public debt is down to manageable levels; this month Ankara paid back its last remaining loan to the IMF. Interest rates are at record lows. More than 98 percent of all Turkish exports are in manufacturing products, and Turkey now ranks among the top producers of household durable goods and automobiles in Europe.
On the political side, Turkey has been now more than 30 years without a full-fledged military coup, and the country has had free elections (despite the generals' interventions) since 1950. The military appears to have finally returned to barracks for good, and its leaders show little inclination to return to the past. The Ergenekon trials, which have seen once-unaccountable generals compelled to defend their actions in court, are a welcome sign for those of us who have long pushed for Turkish society to adopt the political and legal norms worthy of modern democracies. I've supported efforts to reform the judicial system, making judges and attorneys more aware of their responsibility to defend individual freedoms rather than the interests of a small military-bureaucratic elite who see themselves as the true owners of Turkey.
continuation of this article can be found here: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...lashes_in_turkey?page=0,1&wp_login_redirect=0
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i agree sth smells a bit fishy, but i dont agree with you regarding fear keeping people at home. i think of there is anything these so called "Arab springs" have accomplished is it has liberated the people from the chains of fear that have grounded them for so long. in the past yes fear pretty much worked with the people however now people no longer fear clashing or getting detained.
Has the government of Prime Minister Erdogan finally succumbed to the authoritarian impulses that doomed so many other Turkish leaders before him?
ANKARA, May 31 -- As I write these words in my Ankara hotel in the early morning hours, I can still hear the distant voices of massed demonstrators chanting slogans a few blocks from the presidential palace and the prime minister's residence. Thousands of people are continuing to protest the government and its deeply undemocratic actions. The TV is showing images of the brutal police attack against peaceful demonstrators that took place earlier today in Istanbul's Taksim Square.
The clashes in Istanbul go on as I write: Emergency rooms in the hospitals near Taksim are struggling to cope with the hundreds of people injured by the police. Earlier today in Ankara, where the protests have so far remained largely peaceful, I've watched protestors linking arms to form human chains blocking the streets. What struck me the most was the reaction from ordinary people. Rather than protesting the snarled traffic caused by the demonstrators, Ankarans passing by in their cars supported the protestors by honking and waving victory signs from their windows.
Over the past few weeks I've been taking some of my students from the United States on a trip around Turkey. The aim of our trip has been to explore the pros and cons of the country's development experience. We started with the early days of the republic (overshadowed by the war for independence, ethnic cleansing, authoritarianism, forced cultural modernization, and economic failures) and have worked our way up to the challenges that shape the country today (democratization, the Kurdish conflict, the rise of the current Islamist government, and the tensions between secular Kemalism and religious politics). I've done my best to help my students see the forty shades of blue separating the empty half of the glass from the part that's full.
There's no denying that Turkey is now a thriving emerging market economy with a vibrant civil society. Istanbul last year attracted more tourists than Amsterdam or Rome, ranking right behind London and Paris in the number of tourist arrivals. There are more arts concerts in Istanbul in a given month than in a year in most E.U. member states. On the economic front, the inflation rate has been brought down from 100 percent just a few years ago to below 10 percent today. Public debt is down to manageable levels; this month Ankara paid back its last remaining loan to the IMF. Interest rates are at record lows. More than 98 percent of all Turkish exports are in manufacturing products, and Turkey now ranks among the top producers of household durable goods and automobiles in Europe.
On the political side, Turkey has been now more than 30 years without a full-fledged military coup, and the country has had free elections (despite the generals' interventions) since 1950. The military appears to have finally returned to barracks for good, and its leaders show little inclination to return to the past. The Ergenekon trials, which have seen once-unaccountable generals compelled to defend their actions in court, are a welcome sign for those of us who have long pushed for Turkish society to adopt the political and legal norms worthy of modern democracies. I've supported efforts to reform the judicial system, making judges and attorneys more aware of their responsibility to defend individual freedoms rather than the interests of a small military-bureaucratic elite who see themselves as the true owners of Turkey.
continuation of this article can be found here: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...lashes_in_turkey?page=0,1&wp_login_redirect=0
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i agree sth smells a bit fishy, but i dont agree with you regarding fear keeping people at home. i think of there is anything these so called "Arab springs" have accomplished is it has liberated the people from the chains of fear that have grounded them for so long. in the past yes fear pretty much worked with the people however now people no longer fear clashing or getting detained.
Abel after reading the article i just posted from the fp. i just want to add sth to my response regarding whats the similarities are. in the article it states that one of the bridges being built ( is actually almost complete) has been designed by the islamist mayor of istanbul an ally of erdogan, with out any public discussion or public competition to claim contractual rights to build such a bridge, not only that its been designed by the mayor 
this is so similar to how all the muslim brother business tycoons are buying everything they can get there hands on! with out any competition what so ever, hell they even struck deal with business tycoons who were well known to be massive allies of the mubarak regime. ( its of important to know, that the last 5 years in mubaraks regime the corner stones for his son being president where laid down by the business tycoons who played a massive role in politic's and swung the power greatly in gamal mubaraks favor, and off course mubarak's government headed by ahmed nazif ( prime minister) rubbed these business men's back by giving them massive massive advantages, like discounted prices on land, tax evasions, etc) the muslim brotherhood carried this trend and hence the massive up roar in cairo to this day and we r just 9 month in to super morsy's rule) this in my opinion why egyptains who loved erdogan hell worshipped him!! are now super happy to see he is getting the stick from the people and are openly happy another islamist ruled government is getting its fair share of trouble bec of the ties that hold erdogan with the current ruling party in egypt.
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actually they need the summer more than the winter bec its there touristic high season.
this is so similar to how all the muslim brother business tycoons are buying everything they can get there hands on! with out any competition what so ever, hell they even struck deal with business tycoons who were well known to be massive allies of the mubarak regime. ( its of important to know, that the last 5 years in mubaraks regime the corner stones for his son being president where laid down by the business tycoons who played a massive role in politic's and swung the power greatly in gamal mubaraks favor, and off course mubarak's government headed by ahmed nazif ( prime minister) rubbed these business men's back by giving them massive massive advantages, like discounted prices on land, tax evasions, etc) the muslim brotherhood carried this trend and hence the massive up roar in cairo to this day and we r just 9 month in to super morsy's rule) this in my opinion why egyptains who loved erdogan hell worshipped him!! are now super happy to see he is getting the stick from the people and are openly happy another islamist ruled government is getting its fair share of trouble bec of the ties that hold erdogan with the current ruling party in egypt.- - - Updated - - -
actually they need the summer more than the winter bec its there touristic high season.
Abel after reading the article i just posted from the fp. i just want to add sth to my response regarding whats the similarities are. in the article it states that one of the bridges being built ( is actually almost complete) has been designed by the islamist mayor of istanbul an ally of erdogan, with out any public discussion or public competition to claim contractual rights to build such a bridge, not only that its been designed by the mayor this is so similar to how all the muslim brother business tycoons are buying everything they can get there hands on! with out any competition what so ever, hell they even struck deal with business tycoons who were well known to be massive allies of the mubarak regime. ( its of important to know, that the last 5 years in mubaraks regime the corner stones for his son being president where laid down by the business tycoons who played a massive role in politic's and swung the power greatly in gamal mubaraks favor, and off course mubarak's government headed by ahmed nazif ( prime minister) rubbed these business men's back by giving them massive massive advantages, like discounted prices on land, tax evasions, etc) the muslim brotherhood carried this trend and hence the massive up roar in cairo to this day and we r just 9 month in to super morsy's rule) this in my opinion why egyptains who loved erdogan hell worshipped him!! are now super happy to see he is getting the stick from the people and are openly happy another islamist ruled government is getting its fair share of trouble bec of the ties that hold erdogan with the current ruling party in egypt.
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actually they need the summer more than the winter bec its there touristic high season.
this is so similar to how all the muslim brother business tycoons are buying everything they can get there hands on! with out any competition what so ever, hell they even struck deal with business tycoons who were well known to be massive allies of the mubarak regime. ( its of important to know, that the last 5 years in mubaraks regime the corner stones for his son being president where laid down by the business tycoons who played a massive role in politic's and swung the power greatly in gamal mubaraks favor, and off course mubarak's government headed by ahmed nazif ( prime minister) rubbed these business men's back by giving them massive massive advantages, like discounted prices on land, tax evasions, etc) the muslim brotherhood carried this trend and hence the massive up roar in cairo to this day and we r just 9 month in to super morsy's rule) this in my opinion why egyptains who loved erdogan hell worshipped him!! are now super happy to see he is getting the stick from the people and are openly happy another islamist ruled government is getting its fair share of trouble bec of the ties that hold erdogan with the current ruling party in egypt.- - - Updated - - -
actually they need the summer more than the winter bec its there touristic high season.
sorry to point out the obvious, but that above happens everywhere, if you were to show this to any chicagoan they'd laugh at how minor and amateruish the above is. You really think politicians get into it out of civic duty, there's a lot of ego and coin in there. I still have yet to see any reasonable ground for people to go outside and wreak havoc, i also dont see any similarities with egypt, except for the fact both were elected president which gives them the executive authority to do many things without consulting anyone. See, Ahmed, that is the trouble with democracy, you have to also accept it when it doesnt follow with your agenda.
What I sense is more the aggravated sense of the beginnings of a slippery slope. It's not full-blown Morsi by any means there yet, but I think there's a lot of sense in making a statement before it gets that far.
I should have sensed that more when they were staging the public kissing protests a week ago...
I should have sensed that more when they were staging the public kissing protests a week ago...
I hope you know that you are hardly reliable.
It makes me laugh that this seems to be the only/most serious thing held against the rebels in western media. "Eating the heart of a dead soldier, wow, how horrible they can be. We should now think twice before arming them". What do you expect to see in a civil war when both groups are armed, each serving foreign powers' purposes, when it's not possible anymore to draw a line between right and wrong?
I don't know what's worse either but even if war ended tomorrow, this generation of Syrian people as well as the few next would be terribly screwed so it's safe to say that they would have been better off in a pre war Assad regime, as bad as it was.
Again, does it not suggest that the only difference between the two groups is that one is simply more powerful than the other? People on both ends of the fight are being slaughtered. The number of civilian casualties is less on the pro government side because the opposition is weaker.
It makes me laugh that this seems to be the only/most serious thing held against the rebels in western media. "Eating the heart of a dead soldier, wow, how horrible they can be. We should now think twice before arming them". What do you expect to see in a civil war when both groups are armed, each serving foreign powers' purposes, when it's not possible anymore to draw a line between right and wrong?
I don't know what's worse either but even if war ended tomorrow, this generation of Syrian people as well as the few next would be terribly screwed so it's safe to say that they would have been better off in a pre war Assad regime, as bad as it was.
Again, does it not suggest that the only difference between the two groups is that one is simply more powerful than the other? People on both ends of the fight are being slaughtered. The number of civilian casualties is less on the pro government side because the opposition is weaker.
That was perhaps not the best example.
I fear the Sunni theocratic Islamist elements of the rebels, it seems that the secularists are in a minority there.
It increasingly looks(especially with Hezbollah fighting alongside Assad) like this conflict will escalate into a regional conflict between Sunnis and Shiites, which will be a disaster.
I fear the Sunni theocratic Islamist elements of the rebels, it seems that the secularists are in a minority there.
It increasingly looks(especially with Hezbollah fighting alongside Assad) like this conflict will escalate into a regional conflict between Sunnis and Shiites, which will be a disaster.
yep thats it, someones got photoshop this shit