Türkiye (72 Viewers)

[Tomice]

pkk caused way more damage than daesh for almost 40 years and they are not only freely roaming in Europe but also supported by their governments. They are kidnapping kids from their families, threatening them to kill their families if they refuse to come and send them to Iraq/Syria to fight, they are collecting tributes from the Kurds living in Europe. These countries are nations that export terrorism and that boomerang they love to throw will eventually hit them in the face no matter what.

They are also allowed to spread propaganda and hold massive rallies on streets, so it is not security thing as you bullshit.
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201702111050581854-kurdistan-pkk-france-protest/

They also allow people from opposition parties to spread propaganda as we speak now. Main opposition party cancelled their rallies in Europe themselves(not refused by the governments), otherwise it would have been too obvious that they are on the same side.

Not allowing a minister to visit their country is against freedom of travel, and not allowing a minister to visit their embassy, which is considered that nation's ground, is against international treaties. If you allow a terrorist organization which spilled blood for 40 years to hold rallies and don't allow my elected government to do that, that means you are my enemy, it is simple as that.

Even most naive of the people are now able to see that true purpose of these governments is sabotaging the referendum results. Today a Swiss newspaper threatened Turks living Switzerland to deport them if they say yes to presidency. I dare them to try that as these people have citizenship, let's see how they are gonna do that and what reaction they will face afterwards.

It's a blessing in disguise as they helped some people to make their decision about coming referendum, we should all be thankful to likes of John Carpenter's The Thing aka Wilders and all of those children of red light district.

You don't see the difference and hypocrisy in going to a democratic country to try and pass a vote back in your country against democracy? It would be like holding an international anti-kebab rally in Turkey

It's not against freedom of travel as it's not her country, the embassy ground is Turkish but the way there isn't. pkk isn't a terrorist organization btw and if that makes a countrey your enemy then the bar is very low. I wonder how many of those hollow threats you would have made without NATO to protect your asses.

Also, I wouldn't be so proud that some of your countrymen escaped poverty by getting a citizenship in a progressive country and would riot just so they won't be sent back

I wouldn't even get into that all pkk is worse then ISIS stuff, totally bonkers

 

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[Turk_Bianconero]

You can fuck youself and spare me the bullshit if you think pkk is not terrorist.

 

[Tomice]

You can fuck youself and spare me the bullshit if you think pkk is not terrorist.

That's what your buddy Putin thinks, is he your enemy or friend then? It's so hard to keep up

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You know who did designated them as terrorist group though? your new enemy the Netherlands

 

[General]

Turkey happens to be in the middle of the euro-middle eastern oil pipeline....Erdogan is trying to exploit as much as possible from this situation and doesn't wants his country to go full-Assad.


Erdogan is just doing what each politician would..


i understand the PKK vs Daesh discussion because they've been given a hard time by both parties..Turkey chose the path of Russia

this time Erdogan needs as much support as possible, that's why he wants his ministers to go around and beg for voters...

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Half a million Turks who migrated abroad to enjoy the quality of life in a democratic society in the Netherlands are to vote for less democracy for the people who stayed behind, it's all comically and outrageously cynical.

Had to quote this, since this sums up the entire situation in one sentence.

Turkey is as much tolerated as it is needed.

Not sure about that.

 

[Zacheryah]

pkk caused way more damage than daesh for almost 40 years and they are not only freely roaming in Europe but also supported by their governments. They are kidnapping kids from their families, threatening them to kill their families if they refuse to come and send them to Iraq/Syria to fight, they are collecting tributes from the Kurds living in Europe. These countries are nations that export terrorism and that boomerang they love to throw will eventually hit them in the face no matter what.

They are also allowed to spread propaganda and hold massive rallies on streets, so it is not security thing as you bullshit.
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201702111050581854-kurdistan-pkk-france-protest/

They also allow people from opposition parties to spread propaganda as we speak now. Main opposition party cancelled their rallies in Europe themselves(not refused by the governments), otherwise it would have been too obvious that they are on the same side.

Not allowing a minister to visit their country is against freedom of travel, and not allowing a minister to visit their embassy, which is considered that nation's ground, is against international treaties. If you allow a terrorist organization which spilled blood for 40 years to hold rallies and don't allow my elected government to do that, that means you are my enemy, it is simple as that.

Even most naive of the people are now able to see that true purpose of these governments is sabotaging the referendum results. Today a Swiss newspaper threatened Turks living Switzerland to deport them if they say yes to presidency. I dare them to try that as these people have citizenship, let's see how they are gonna do that and what reaction they will face afterwards.

It's a blessing in disguise as they helped some people to make their decision about coming referendum, we should all be thankful to likes of John Carpenter's The Thing aka Wilders and all of those children of red light district.

If Turkey wants to hold a referendum, they can totally do that and nobody has any right to infervene with what happens within Turkish borders.

You have no business doing this in other countries.



Keep your referendum in Turkey. Turkish people who saw the light and moved to a better place, Belgium, Netherlands or Germany, arent Turks anymore. They are Belgian, Dutch or German citizens.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Turkish people who saw the light and moved to a better place, Belgium, Netherlands or Germany, arent Turks anymore. They are Belgian, Dutch or German citizens.

Yeah, that's not even close to being true.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Yeah, that's not even close to being true.

And that's really sad

 

[Zacheryah]

Yeah, that's not even close to being true.

Someone moves here, takes belgian nationality and contributes, and especially his belgian born offspring, are fellow belgian citizens to me

 

[pitbull]

Someone moves here, takes belgian nationality and contributes, and especially his belgian born offspring, are fellow belgian citizens to me

they're possibly both, a lot depends on what they believe

 

[Tomice]

Someone moves here, takes belgian nationality and contributes, and especially his belgian born offspring, are fellow belgian citizens to me

I think he doubts if that's the case from their perspective, not his.

I really doubt though that second generation or even a third consider themselves more than even-split citizens at best, it is especially prevalent as the distance between the culture at home and of their new country is greater.
In that regard I don't blame them btw and I don't think it would be any different in my case or for people from my country, you can't really wash off cultural ties and affinity that fast and I get that. 2-3 generations are nothing in the big picture.

With that said I still think the minimum they should do in that case is to stfu and respect the rules, values and culture of the country they live in. if you live in a democratic country and enjoy the benefits then you can't go around and scream for Autocracy somewhere else. It makes you look like an ungrateful passenger, incapable of true integration and it's quite frankly dumb.

 

[DutchJuventino]

Not allowing a minister to visit their country is against freedom of travel, and not allowing a minister to visit their embassy, which is considered that nation's ground, is against international treaties. If you allow a terrorist organization which spilled blood for 40 years to hold rallies and don't allow my elected government to do that, that means you are my enemy, it is simple as that.

Sorry, but this is not true. Only the (minister)president and minister of Secretary of State have the diplomatic status of immunity. Only these people can travel to every country without being expelled. There is even a agreement/law that explains that every country has the right to expell people with other nationalities except the (minister)president and minister of foreign affairs. The Turkish minister was a minister Fatma Betül Sayan Kaya is from family affairs so she has not the diplomatic immunity. The Netherlands have the rights to expell her to the country of origin and in this case she came from Germany so she was expelled to Germany.

Netherlands followed the international treats and did not trangress any rule.

Geert Wilders has btw nothing to do with this circumstances. Don't be fearful, nobody wants to work with him so he can never form a kabinet.

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Keep your referendum in Turkey. Turkish people who saw the light and moved to a better place, Belgium, Netherlands or Germany, arent Turks anymore. They are Belgian, Dutch or German citizens.

This is not true imo. Although it is a problem. The ironic thing is that the first generation Turkish people who came from Turkey feeling also Netherlands and are against Erdogan and that the 2nd and 3rd generation Turkish-Dutchies are advocate Erdogan, meanwhile they are born in NL and never been in Turkey, maybe only 2 weeks on vacation.

I've no problem with Turkish people and as I said most of them have a good reputation (better than Maroccans/Algerian), Erdogan is killing this reputation fastly on this way ...

 

[Turk_Bianconero]

Sorry, but this is not true. Only the (minister)president and minister of Secretary of State have the diplomatic status of immunity. Only these people can travel to every country without being expelled. There is even a agreement/law that explains that every country has the right to expell people with other nationalities except the (minister)president and minister of foreign affairs. The Turkish minister was a minister Fatma Betül Sayan Kaya is from family affairs so she has not the diplomatic immunity. The Netherlands have the rights to expell her to the country of origin and in this case she came from Germany so she was expelled to Germany.

Netherlands followed the international treats and did not trangress any rule.

Geert Wilders has btw nothing to do with this circumstances. Don't be fearful, nobody wants to work with him so he can never form a kabinet.

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This is not true imo. Although it is a problem. The ironic thing is that the first generation Turkish people who came from Turkey feeling also Netherlands and are against Erdogan and that the 2nd and 3rd generation Turkish-Dutchies are advocate Erdogan, meanwhile they are born in NL and never been in Turkey, maybe only 2 weeks on vacation.

I've no problem with Turkish people and as I said most of them have a good reputation (better than Maroccans/Algerian), Erdogan is killing this reputation fastly on this way ...

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...-turkey-mevlut-cavusoglu-170311103543825.html

 

[DutchJuventino]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...-turkey-mevlut-cavusoglu-170311103543825.html

I don't see the problem? You can revokes landing rights and that is not against any agreement or law. Diplomatic immunity means that if you are in the country we can not expell. If he took a flight to Germany and took a car into the Netherlands nobody can hold him. The Netherlands had 100 percent the rights to do what they did. Europe stays behind us, because they see we did the correct thing (i never expected we would do this tho). You need to draw a border, that's important for in the future. It is not that because we are a small country we are a playground for bigger countries.

I agree it was not a really gentle reaction from the Netherlands, but it was needed because Turkey is really disrespectful against a lot of European countries inclusive the Netherlands. Maybe you need to take your blinkers off.

This stays literally in your article:

"In the Netherlands it is illegal to hold a public rally about another country's politics."
The same rule your country has. Here should already end the discussion: it is illegal.

The Dutch government said it had been searching with Turkish authorities for an "acceptable solution" to Cavusoglu's plan to campaign in the Netherlands.

"Before these talks were completed, Turkish authorities publicly threatened sanctions. That makes the search for a reasonable solution impossible," Prime Minister Mark Rutte said in a statement.
We wanted a solution. The solution was a speech in an closed building so not an public square or something. But the Turkish didn't want to listen according to Mark Rutte (minister-president) and the minister for Foreign Affairs.

"but these meetings should not add to tensions in our society and everybody who wants to organise a meeting must adhere to instructions from authorities so that public order and security can be guaranteed".

It said the Turkish government "does not want to respect the rules in this matter"."

You have the answer even in your own article.

With the ban on campaign rallies, Rotterdam joined a growing list of European cities that block such gatherings for fear of unrest.
We are not the only one, there is a reason for this isn't it?

Cavusoglu said he planned to fly to Rotterdam anyway, and warned that if the Netherlands blocked his arrival, Turkey would respond with harsh economic and political sanctions.

This made me laugh For Turkey is the economic relationship with the Netherlands / and Europe 1000000% more important than vice versa. We have the biggest and third biggest harbor in Europe and the biggest Airport. Most products that has as destination Denmark, Germany, Belgium, North-France and West-Poland are all came in through the Netherlands. This threat is utter shit.

 

[petersmit]

Watch Wilders become Holland their Trump and after winning it, suddenly some people want to join him in a kabinet (CDA or VVD or whatever)..

They have a big mouth now but if Geert has the biggest amount of votes I think they'll turn around.. It's their only shot

 

[Seven]

Yeah, that's not even close to being true.

Do you mean the first part of his sentence or that they aren't Belgian?

And that's really sad

Many Turkish immigrants have Belgian citizenship. I'd consider those who do Belgian. At the same time I am sure that they do feel part Turkish too.

Someone moves here, takes belgian nationality and contributes, and especially his belgian born offspring, are fellow belgian citizens to me

Yes, of course. But the vast majority of Turkish immigrants did not 'see the light' and escape some sort of dictatorial tyranny. They just found a place to work and earn money.

 

[DutchJuventino]

Watch Wilders become Holland their Trump and after winning it, suddenly some people want to join him in a kabinet (CDA or VVD or whatever)..

They have a big mouth now but if Geert has the biggest amount of votes I think they'll turn around.. It's their only shot

CDA already said 100% no to Wilders. I think PVV will not take a part in the cabinet. With 20 seats he can have an impact to be honest, but as opponent-part and not as cabinet. If he actual come in cabinet there is not too much what he can do, as some of his ideas are contrary the law. Besides that I stay behind SOME of his plans about immigration, refugees and integration.

 

[Seven]

I don't see the problem? You can revokes landing rights and that is not against any agreement or law.

It could make for an interesting legal debate, but I think most would accept that if a state perceives a certain person or event to be a danger to their public order and safety, they can take the necessary measures. If states feel their core values might be at stake or that their citizens are running a real risk, they are in their right to prevent someone from landing on their territory.

 

[Tomice]

It's not about legal proceedings or international law, it's about disrespecting the great sultan. He couldn't care less what the law is in the netherlands, he feels entitled

 

[Seven]

It's not about legal proceedings or international law, it's about disrespecting the great sultan. He couldn't care less what the law is in the netherlands

This isn't just about the law in the Netherlands. You have international law too. In the form of treaties, but also in the form of customary law. I know that wasn't your point, but (dis)respect does play a big role in diplomatic relations. Not allowing a foreign minister to land on your territory is a big deal. I'm not picking sides here, don't know enough about the situation at all, but I can see why Turkey would not be happy about this.