[SPA] La Liga 2015/2016 (18 Viewers)

[Post Ironic]

No, but most effective with his goals.

You still have to factor in how many goals those guys scored overall, and most importantly how much they contribute to the game besides scoring/assisting.

People massively overestimate Messi in this regard, acting as though he is playing as a midfielder. Ludicrous. No, not the rapper.

He gets the ball on average 1 pass earlier in attacks than Cristiano at most, both of them walk around the pitch when their team doesn't have the ball, etc.

 

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[Ocelot]

Like scoring both of Real Madrid's goals against us in the CL semi-final last year? Like holding the all-time record for CL knockout goals? Yep. He doesn't score at all in the big matches. Don't be cray cray, Austria.

I never said he doesn't score quite a lot against qualitiy opposition, but his goalscoring stats are simply extremely inflated by those virtually meaningless goals. And again, he's still among the very best goalscorers in the game.


True on all other accounts, I blame Fred too

 

[Post Ironic]

I never said he doesn't score quite a lot against qualitiy opposition, but his goalscoring stats are simply extremely inflated by those virtually meaningless goals. And again, he's still among the very best goalscorers in the game.


True on all other accounts, I blame Fred too

The most important bit. He really is a white-collar rich boy swine.

 

[Fred]

People massively overestimate Messi in this regard, acting as though he is playing as a midfielder. Ludicrous. No, not the rapper.

He gets the ball on average 1 pass earlier in attacks than Cristiano at most, both of them walk around the pitch when their team doesn't have the ball, etc.

I don't know what kind of stats you have that tell you that, however watching them both play tells you otherwise. While I am with you that some people exaggerate the difference between Messi and Ronaldo, at their very best it's quite debatable whose better, although I'd give Messi the slight edge. However to say that they both contribute to build up play the same is far from the truth. Messi has even been played as a midfielder before.

Though I agree with your point about them both walking around the pitch when their team doesn't have the ball, that's definitely equally true of both. Though I don't see that as being wrong at all. If I were a manager and I had a player of their ability, I'd specifically instruct them to preserve their energy for when the team is in attacking mode.

 

[Ocelot]

People massively overestimate Messi in this regard, acting as though he is playing as a midfielder. Ludicrous. No, not the rapper.

He gets the ball on average 1 pass earlier in attacks than Cristiano at most, both of them walk around the pitch when their team doesn't have the ball, etc.

Dude, he's the player with the second most through balls in the world

 

[Fred]

The most important bit. He really is a white-collar rich boy swine.

Meh you're more of a capitalist bourgeoisie than I am tbh.

Think about it, you own your own business, while I toil away working long hours for an employer

 

[Post Ironic]

I don't know what kind of stats you have that tell you that, however watching them both play tells you otherwise. While I am with you that some people exaggerate the difference between Messi and Ronaldo, at their very best it's quite debatable whose better, although I'd give Messi the slight edge. However to say that they both contribute to build up play the same is far from the truth. Messi has even been played as a midfielder before.

Though I agree with your point about them both walking around the pitch when their team doesn't have the ball, that's definitely equally true of both. Though I don't see that as being wrong at all. If I were a manager and I had a player of their ability, I'd specifically instruct them to preserve their energy for when the team is in attacking mode.

I agree with this entirely. I've always placed Messi slightly above Cristiano, mostly because he influences the game more outside the goals and assists. He's a more dynamic player, better with the ball at his feet, which means he will always be involved in the buildup to a larger extent. All I mean is that some people try to portray him as playing as a midfielder basically, as well as an attacker, which is silly.

He has the edge on Cristiano because he is more involved in the attacking build-up, but he's certainly not playing any semblance of a deep midfield role.

 

[Hængebøffer]

I think Messi is the better player, but Ronaldo is more complete.

 

[Post Ironic]

Meh you're more of a capitalist bourgeoisie than I am tbh.

Think about it, you own your own business, while I toil away working long hours for an employer

Shhh. Don't ruin the image Seven has given us all of your pampered rich boy life.

 

[Ocelot]

I think Messi is the better player, but Ronaldo is more complete.

How, they're both extremely good at a few of the same and a few different things.

Ronaldo can head better, has probably a faster top speed, but Messi is miles ahead as a playmaker (of course he isn't a full-fledged midfielder or anything).

 

[Fred]

Shhh. Don't ruin the image Seven has given us all of your pampered rich boy life.

Well I hope it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy then, so go on

How, they're both extremely good at a few of the same and a few different things.

Ronaldo can head better, has probably a faster top speed, but Messi is miles ahead as a playmaker (of course he isn't a full-fledged midfielder or anything).

Yup, I've never subscribed to the Ronaldo is more complete idea. Perhaps a better way of putting it is that he's more complete as a striker; i.e. Messi can't head the ball, nor is he the type to score poacher goals and make runs behind the defense for his teammates, perhaps from that perspective he's more complete.

 

[Ocelot]

Well I hope it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy then, so go on



Yup, I've never subscribed to the Ronaldo is more complete idea. Perhaps a better way of putting it is that he's more complete as a striker; i.e. Messi can't head the ball, nor is he the type to score poacher goals and make runs behind the defense for his teammates, perhaps from that perspective he's more complete.

More complete striker, I can get behind of, pretty good description actually.

More complete player, no way.

 

[Hængebøffer]

How, they're both extremely good at a few of the same and a few different things.

Ronaldo can head better, has probably a faster top speed, but Messi is miles ahead as a playmaker (of course he isn't a full-fledged midfielder or anything).

As an attacker.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

I'm not a huge fan of Romario because of his attitude, but @CrimsonianKing, do share more Romario stories if you have more in your stock.

And is it true that many (most?) Brazilians rate Romario higher than Ronaldo?

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@MessiFanboys @CronaldoFanboys

How can you not love his attitude, he was an anarchist in a way and not one to make empty promises. There's a difference between being a troublemaker like Balotelli and be shit at his job and Romário, being literally the best. You don't find personalities like him in Football anymore. It's quite boring actually.

And yes, any Brazilian who is old enough to have seen both will place Romário way above Ronaldo, in fact just second to Pelé. And so do I. Romário could have been bigger than Maradona (Skill wise he might be just that) had he stayed in Europe. He could have dominated the continent for the rest of the decade, won maybe another WC, a shitload of awards but he left and popularity can go a long way.

 

[Ocelot]

How can you not love his attitude, he was an anarchist in a way and not one to make empty promises. There's a difference between being a troublemaker like Balotelli and be shit at his job and Romário, being literally the best. You don't find personalities like him in Football anymore. It's quite boring actually.

And yes, any Brazilian who is old enough to have seen both will place Romário way above Ronaldo, in fact just second to Pelé. And so do I. Romário could have been bigger than Maradona (Skill wise he might be just that) had he stayed in Europe. He could have dominated the continent for the rest of the decade, won maybe another WC, a shitload of awards but he left and popularity can go a long way.

I honestly think that's because today's football is way less forgiving physically than previously. If you're simply talented as shit, but don't put the work in you might have a decent career, but won't be on top.

 

[Post Ironic]

I honestly think that's because today's football is way less forgiving physically than previously. If you're simply talented as shit, but don't put the work in you might have a decent career, but won't be on top.

Nah. Romario would have destroyed this league. His game wasn't built on physically dominating his opponents. He was perhaps the most intelligent attacking player I've ever seen in terms of positioning, managing to lose defenders and pop up in the open spaces as though he was invisible, timing his runs, etc. He would destroy today's positionally incompetent defenders with his intelligence. And his nerves are second to none, all-time.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

I honestly think that's because today's football is way less forgiving physically than previously. If you're simply talented as shit, but don't put the work in you might have a decent career, but won't be on top.

I don't think so, really. Anyone can become an athlete with the proper training meaning anyone can have the work rate. Talent on the other hand, you either have it or not, it's not something you just learn.

A 'talented as shit' player today (which let's be honest is something so rare when you look at the bigger picture) being brought up in a time when it's all about running would automatically adapt to this new way. It would be no different for any player of the past. He'd be the best either way.

 

[Martin]

I don't think so, really. Anyone can become an athlete with the proper training meaning anyone can have the work rate. Talent on the other hand, you either have it or not, it's not something you just learn.

A 'talented as $#@!' player today (which let's be honest is something so rare when you look at the bigger picture) being brought up in a time when it's all about running would automatically adapt to this new way. It would be no different for any player of the past. He'd be the best either way.

counter example: Stefano Sturaro

 

[CrimsonianKing]

Nah. Romario would have destroyed this league. His game wasn't built on physically dominating his points. He was perhaps the most intelligent attacking player I've ever seen in terms of positioning, managing to lose defenders and pop up in the open spaces as though he was invisible, timing his runs, etc. He would destroy today's positionally incompetent defenders with his intelligence. And his nerves are second to none, all-time.

Oh yes. Just because he hated training people mistake it for "he couldn't run" "wasn't in form", on the contrary, his speed and explosiveness and finding himself at the right spot always was of epic proportions. He had no need to track back and help recover the ball, that is never a centre forwards job, even if some people insist they should nowadays. You score goals, that's your job.

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counter example: Stefano Sturaro

Hmm I don't see Sturaro as a "talented" player. More like a hard worker that can improve to be a better hard worker. Most players in today's Football are just that.

When I talk talent, I talk natural talent. One that's a master at what he does, that makes the ball obey him and can see the game like he has an extra pair of eyes and legs.

 

[Martin]

Hmm I don't see Sturaro as a "talented" player. More like a hard worker that can improve to be a better hard worker. Most players in today's Football are just that.

When I talk talent, I talk natural talent. One that's a master at what he does, that makes the ball obey him and can see the game like he has an extra pair of eyes and legs.

Well that joke went over your head. Next time I will aim more carefully

Actually, it's interesting to me what people mean when they say "talent". I always used to think it means something inborn. But in the English speaking world a lot of people seem to mean just "ability". When recruiting companies talk about talent they mean skilled workers. Skill which they gained through training.