[SPA] La Liga 2015/2016 (15 Viewers)

[Osman]

I wouldn't call it disappointing. He managed to get a Ballon D'or, win every top scorer award in every year he was in Europe. Of course he could have stayed and dominate for many years but that wasn't him. The guy was simply too homesick, missed his parties with friends and his family and his futvolei. Some people aren't made to live overseas, they get too attached to the way things are in their homecountries and want nothing but just that.

I also wouldn't say that pissed his career away. We're not talking about the shit Brazilian league of today but of the 90's. Several of the many best players that were known in the rest of the world later were then playing in that league. It was a top league equal to all the others in Europe, maybe even Serie A.

He did give a fuck, a lot actually. He did so that he didn't leave the sport until all the way to his 40's. He loved it. He had a big ego though and an ideology that he had nothing left to learn from training, he knew everything he needed to know already. And in a way, being the biggest scorer in Football history, he was quite right.

I agree with the gist all of that, but firstly when I said pissed his career away I mean in comparison to a near decade of dominating the top best European leagues (while bossing WC tourno's as he did) AND be seen as an all time top 10 there abouts unquestionably (Pele, Maradona, Garrincha, Cruyff, Messi, Di Stefano, Platini types, that owned their era's). But regardless of how good the Brazilian teams were at the 90s, it wasnt where you needed to be to compete for top honours in the long run. And even if he won the top scorer charts, he didnt make a legacy for himself in Europe, it was too short lived and he was in too much of a hurry home. He simply didnt take his chance seriously enough to become a GOAT in club level as I said. Was the man for PSV (far too long as I said). Dominated with Barca, but it was too briefly (just 2 years) and he ran back home for the comfort. Litterally a year after being the best player in the world in 94, in 95 he leaves Europe and Barca and goes back to Brasil for good? (besides very short stint with Valencia where he was sent home twice like they held him hostage). Thats him in his prime age and he abandoned the big European stage with the best players (see him vs Milan of those days, or Baggio in club level etc) because he wanted to play at home. Thats fine as a personal choice, but career legacy wise its bit dissapointing. For example he robbed us the opportunity to see him and Ronaldo together in Barca...

 

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[il brutto]

I agree with the gist all of that, but firstly when I said pissed his career away I mean in comparison to a near decade of dominating the top best European leagues (while bossing WC tourno's as he did) AND be seen as an all time top 10 there abouts unquestionably (Pele, Maradona, Garrincha, Cruyff, Messi, Di Stefano, Platini types, that owned their era's). But regardless of how good the Brazilian teams were at the 90s, it wasnt where you needed to be to compete for top honours in the long run. And even if he won the top scorer charts, he didnt make a legacy for himself in Europe, it was too short lived and he was in too much of a hurry home. He simply didnt take his chance seriously enough to become a GOAT in club level as I said. Was the man for PSV (far too long as I said). Dominated with Barca, but it was too briefly (just 2 years) and he ran back home for the comfort. Litterally a year after being the best player in the world in 94, in 95 he leaves Europe and Barca and goes back to Brasil for good? (besides very short stint with Valencia where he was sent home twice like they held him hostage). Thats him in his prime age and he abandoned the big European stage with the best players (see him vs Milan of those days, or Baggio in club level etc) because he wanted to play at home. Thats fine as a personal choice, but career legacy wise its bit dissapointing. For example he robbed us the opportunity to see him and Ronaldo together in Barca...

I think he did plenty enough to be considered one of the all time greats.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

I agree with the gist all of that, but firstly when I said pissed his career away I mean in comparison to a near decade of dominating the top best European leagues (while bossing WC tourno's as he did) AND be seen as an all time top 10 there abouts unquestionably (Pele, Maradona, Garrincha, Cruyff, Messi, Di Stefano, Platini types, that owned their era's). But regardless of how good the Brazilian teams were at the 90s, it wasnt where you needed to be to compete for top honours in the long run. And even if he won the top scorer charts, he didnt make a legacy for himself in Europe, it was too short lived and he was in too much of a hurry home. He simply didnt take his chance seriously enough to become a GOAT in club level as I said. Was the man for PSV (far too long as I said). Dominated with Barca, but it was too briefly (just 2 years) and he ran back home for the comfort. Litterally a year after being the best player in the world in 94, in 95 he leaves Europe and Barca and goes back to Brasil for good? (besides very short stint with Valencia where he was sent home twice like they held him hostage). Thats him in his prime age and he abandoned the big European stage with the best players (see him vs Milan of those days, or Baggio in club level etc) because he wanted to play at home. Thats fine as a personal choice, but career legacy wise its bit dissapointing. For example he robbed us the opportunity to see him and Ronaldo together in Barca...

I see what you mean and you make good points. That's the reality of it, Europe was the spotlight, all eyes were there. Fortunately for me in a personal level, when he moved back I could then watch him every single week. So while the rest of the world kind of thought he "threw it away" having every chance to achieve whatever he wanted in Europe, we, in Brazil, were happy to watch pretty much all of his career closer than ever.

Well, he did play with Ronaldo for the Seleção though. That 6-0 against... I think it was Venezuela or Ecuador where each scored a hattrick was just a memorable moment in Football.

But you know what I REALLY feel robbed of? 1998's World Cup. That cup would have been so different was he part of the squad. He was backstabbed by our own federation's President, who promised the guy a spot in the team. Then on the day the final list was revealed, no Romário. All politics. Fucking corrupted team and delegation.

 

[Osman]

I think he did plenty enough to be considered one of the all time greats.

I guess I rate his individual ability more then you guys, because he was simply too insane and smooth in his prime. But he is pretty much never mentionned as one of the absolute best top 10 players in the history of the game. He is mainly mentionned when you bring up the best strikers/attackers only. He could done more and dominated more in club level to build a more sure fire legacy then he did. Which would have happend if was less home sick or carefree/unserious about his job. Because only top club he played for was Barcelona and it was for 2 years. He dominated with PSV, but was a small league, and he joined them after they won CL, didnt win one with them. Stay longer with Barcelona or join another top European club after them, and I can gurantee you he would easily be spoken of in much higher regard then he is.


But immediately after he left home to Brazil in his prime, the worlds attention was all on Ronaldo, insane attacker himself, but would have had much more competition for that attention at the time if Romario didnt cut his top stage career short.

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I see what you mean and you make good points. That's the reality of it, Europe was the spotlight, all eyes were there. Fortunately for me in a personal level, when he moved back I could then watch him every single week. So while the rest of the world kind of thought he "threw it away" having every chance to achieve whatever he wanted in Europe, we, in Brazil, were happy to watch pretty much all of his career closer than ever.

Well, he did play with Ronaldo for the Seleção though. That 6-0 against... I think it was Venezuela or Ecuador where each scored a hattrick was just a memorable moment in Football.

But you know what I REALLY feel robbed of? 1998's World Cup. That cup would have been so different was he part of the squad. He was backstabbed by our own federation's President, who promised the guy a spot in the team. Then on the day the final list was revealed, no Romário. All politics. Fucking corrupted team and delegation.

I saw every Brasil NT game at that time, and saw them play together indeed, sickest attacking duo ever (only rivalled by Messi and Ronaldinho together for me). And yeah it was a shame about him in 98, same thing for Baggio, two legends stepped aside like that after the giantic WC they had 4 years prior.

 

[il brutto]

I guess I rate his individual ability more then you guys, because he was simply too insane and smooth in his prime. But he is pretty much never mentionned as one of the absolute best top 10 players in the history of the game. He is mainly mentionned when you bring up the best strikers/attackers only. He could done more and dominated more in club level to build a more sure fire legacy then he did. Which would have happend if was less home sick or carefree/unserious about his job. Because only top club he played for was Barcelona and it was for 2 years. He dominated with PSV, but was a small league, and he joined them after they won CL, didnt win one with them. Stay longer with Barcelona or join another top European club after them, and I can gurantee you he would easily be spoken of in much higher regard then he is.


But immediately after he left home to Brazil in his prime, the worlds attention was all on Ronaldo, insane attacker himself, but would have had much more competition for that attention at the time if Romario didnt cut his top stage career short.

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I saw every Brasil NT game at the end, and saw them play together indeed, sickest attacking duo ever (only rivalled by Messi and Ronaldinho together for me). And yeah it was a shame about him in 98, same thing for Baggio, two legends stepped aside like that after the giantic WC they had 4 years prior.

Well I rate him as one of the best ever not sure how much more you can rate him.

 

[Fr3sh]

@Post Ironic no matter. Let's bring that conversation here.

Btw did you know Romário just turned 50? Here's a epic story I once read about him and Cruyff. @Hustini @Fr3sh @swag @X @zizinho @Zacheryah @Osman @Martin @King of Kings @Emmet

That Romário hated training and anything related to it, we all know but this one takes the cake. One time when he was still at Barcelona, he asked Cruyff to give him 2 training days off so he could travel to Brazil (Apparently it was during Carnaval time and he wanted to party We all know him).

Cruyff then said if he was to score two goals the next match he would be given 2 extra days off.

Next day they were playing some team I can't recall and Romário managed to score 2 goals in the first 20 minutes of the match. Cruyff said that he immediatily made a gesture that meant he wanted to be taken out and said "Cruyff, my plane is leaving within the hour". Cruyff of course made good to his word and let him go.

Legend isn't a good enough word to define that guy.

Now that's a fucking boss!!

 

[Emmet]

What I didn't know about Romario was that he didn't drink, I read Bobby Robson's book and he said Romario loved to party and loved women but was strictly a Coca Cola guy.

He should have been there at France '98, was like Baggio in '02, political decisions keeping big personalities out of the squads.

 

[CrimsonianKing]

What I didn't know about Romario was that he didn't drink, I read Bobby Robson's book and he said Romario loved to party and loved women but was strictly a Coca Cola guy.

He should have been there at France '98, was like Baggio in '02, political decisions keeping big personalities out of the squads.

He didn't do drugs nor drank alcohol. People often mistake that. Maybe the occasional beer here and there but very rarely. He wasn't a "party beast" per se, he just enjoyed socializing way too much and living a laid back 'beach lifestyle'.

 

[Zacheryah]

@Post Ironic no matter. Let's bring that conversation here.

Btw did you know Romário just turned 50? Here's a epic story I once read about him and Cruyff. @Hustini @Fr3sh @swag @X @zizinho @Zacheryah @Osman @Martin @King of Kings @Emmet

That Romário hated training and anything related to it, we all know but this one takes the cake. One time when he was still at Barcelona, he asked Cruyff to give him 2 training days off so he could travel to Brazil (Apparently it was during Carnaval time and he wanted to party We all know him).

Cruyff then said if he was to score two goals the next match he would be given 2 extra days off.

Next day they were playing some team I can't recall and Romário managed to score 2 goals in the first 20 minutes of the match. Cruyff said that he immediatily made a gesture that meant he wanted to be taken out and said "Cruyff, my plane is leaving within the hour". Cruyff of course made good to his word and let him go.

Legend isn't a good enough word to define that guy.

awesome

 

[Post Ironic]

@Post Ironic no matter. Let's bring that conversation here.

Btw did you know Romário just turned 50? Here's a epic story I once read about him and Cruyff. @Hustini @Fr3sh @swag @X @zizinho @Zacheryah @Osman @Martin @King of Kings @Emmet

That Romário hated training and anything related to it, we all know but this one takes the cake. One time when he was still at Barcelona, he asked Cruyff to give him 2 training days off so he could travel to Brazil (Apparently it was during Carnaval time and he wanted to party We all know him).

Cruyff then said if he was to score two goals the next match he would be given 2 extra days off.

Next day they were playing some team I can't recall and Romário managed to score 2 goals in the first 20 minutes of the match. Cruyff said that he immediatily made a gesture that meant he wanted to be taken out and said "Cruyff, my plane is leaving within the hour". Cruyff of course made good to his word and let him go.

Legend isn't a good enough word to define that guy.

My favourite player of all time. So much personality and made football fun for over 20 years; simply magic on the pitch, more so than any other player I've watched, and for that I'll always consider him the best. Dominated every league and every competition he ever took part in.

He had an incredible club career in both Brazil (which was 2nd best league in the world very close behind Serie A at the time) and Europe. And an even better National Team career.

 

[pavluska]

I'm not a huge fan of Romario because of his attitude, but @CrimsonianKing, do share more Romario stories if you have more in your stock.

And is it true that many (most?) Brazilians rate Romario higher than Ronaldo?

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@MessiFanboys @CronaldoFanboys

 

[Ocelot]

I'm not a huge fan of Romario because of his attitude, but @CrimsonianKing, do share more Romario stories if you have more in your stock.

And is it true that many (most?) Brazilians rate Romario higher than Ronaldo?

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@MessiFanboys @CronaldoFanboys

Exactly why Ronaldo cannot be in contention for best player in the world for the past 1-2 seasons.

 

[Fred]

Exactly why Ronaldo cannot be in contention for best player in the world for the past 1-2 seasons.

Those stats are for 15-16 only. Plus we need to know how many times Barca conceded the first goal versus how many times Real conceded the first goal while the aforementioned players were playing.

Plus, why are we sure that scoring a goal when your team is down is more valuable than scoring a goal when it's still 0-0. I much prefer to make the game easier and score before I concede.

 

[Ocelot]

Those stats are for 15-16 only. Plus we need to know how many times Barca conceded the first goal versus how many times Real conceded the first goal while the aforementioned players were playing.

Plus, why are we sure that scoring a goal when your team is down is more valuable than scoring a goal when it's still 0-0. I much prefer to make the game easier and score before I concede.

Of course, but at this point Ronaldo's impact on the field is 80% about goals & assists (doesn't really participate in the buil-up in contrast to Messi for example). There's of course no problem with this, goals and assists are after all what matters at the end of the day, the problem is that recently, he's scoring mostly loads against minnows and "relatively" little against top teams or when it really matters.

 

[pavluska]

Those stats are for 15-16 only. Plus we need to know how many times Barca conceded the first goal versus how many times Real conceded the first goal while the aforementioned players were playing.

Plus, why are we sure that scoring a goal when your team is down is more valuable than scoring a goal when it's still 0-0. I much prefer to make the game easier and score before I concede.

It's easier to score when you're ahead because the other team plays a more open game when they're chasing.

The stats also suggest that Ronaldo scores more often in games where Real win by multiple goals (aka against weaker sides).

 

[Ocelot]

Those stats are for 15-16 only. Plus we need to know how many times Barca conceded the first goal versus how many times Real conceded the first goal while the aforementioned players were playing.

Plus, why are we sure that scoring a goal when your team is down is more valuable than scoring a goal when it's still 0-0. I much prefer to make the game easier and score before I concede.

Oh didn't see the second part before for some reason, that's not at all what I'm taking away from this. Scoring a goal when it's a draw or behind equally important to me, and you can argue that scoring a goal when you're only one ahead helps a lot too. But once you've got a two goal lead, any further goals become largely meaningless.

And if we look at the graph, we see that Ronaldo scores more than half of his goals in these kind of situations, which means that he's still among the best goalscorers in the game, but not in the bracket of the very best in the world when you look at his competition.

 

[Post Ironic]

Of course, but at this point Ronaldo's impact on the field is 80% about goals & assists (doesn't really participate in the buil-up in contrast to Messi for example). There's of course no problem with this, goals and assists are after all what matters at the end of the day, the problem is that recently, he's scoring mostly loads against minnows and "relatively" little against top teams or when it really matters.

Like scoring both of Real Madrid's goals against us in the CL semi-final last year? Like holding the all-time record for CL knockout goals? Yep. He doesn't score at all in the big matches. Don't be cray cray, Austria.

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Oh didn't see the second part before for some reason, that's not at all what I'm taking away from this. Scoring a goal when it's a draw or behind equally important to me, and you can argue that scoring a goal when you're only one ahead helps a lot too. But once you've got a two goal lead, any further goals become largely meaningless.

And if we look at the graph, we see that Ronaldo scores more than half of his goals in these kind of situations, which means that he's still among the best goalscorers in the game, but not in the bracket of the very best in the world when you look at his competition.

Why are you posting this in middle of first half while Juve is playing. Keep your mind on important things. Juventus match. Not fanboy debate. Bad coyote.

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Those stats are for 15-16 only. Plus we need to know how many times Barca conceded the first goal versus how many times Real conceded the first goal while the aforementioned players were playing.

Plus, why are we sure that scoring a goal when your team is down is more valuable than scoring a goal when it's still 0-0. I much prefer to make the game easier and score before I concede.

I see through your nefarious designs you fiendish impresario. Distracting Tuz members from watching their team. Absolutely malevolent of you.

 

[zizinho]

@Post Ironic no matter. Let's bring that conversation here.

Btw did you know Romário just turned 50? Here's a epic story I once read about him and Cruyff. @Hustini @Fr3sh @swag @X @zizinho @Zacheryah @Osman @Martin @King of Kings @Emmet

That Romário hated training and anything related to it, we all know but this one takes the cake. One time when he was still at Barcelona, he asked Cruyff to give him 2 training days off so he could travel to Brazil (Apparently it was during Carnaval time and he wanted to party We all know him).

Cruyff then said if he was to score two goals the next match he would be given 2 extra days off.

Next day they were playing some team I can't recall and Romário managed to score 2 goals in the first 20 minutes of the match. Cruyff said that he immediatily made a gesture that meant he wanted to be taken out and said "Cruyff, my plane is leaving within the hour". Cruyff of course made good to his word and let him go.

Legend isn't a good enough word to define that guy.

if i was the coach, id tell him before each game "as soon as you score 2 goals, ill take you out and you can go party till the next game". i think we would never lose

imagine Romario in todays football, 100% focused on football and giving it his all every game. football would become "boring" due to his domination

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so accoridng to that stat, Griezmann is the best player

 

[Ocelot]

if i was the coach, id tell him before each game "as soon as you score 2 goals, ill take you out and you can go party till the next game". i think we would never lose

imagine Romario in todays football, 100% focused on football and giving it his all every game. football would become "boring" due to his domination

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so accoridng to that stat, Griezmann is the best player

No, but most effective with his goals.

You still have to factor in how many goals those guys scored overall, and most importantly how much they contribute to the game besides scoring/assisting.

 

[Fred]

Of course, but at this point Ronaldo's impact on the field is 80% about goals & assists (doesn't really participate in the buil-up in contrast to Messi for example). There's of course no problem with this, goals and assists are after all what matters at the end of the day, the problem is that recently, he's scoring mostly loads against minnows and "relatively" little against top teams or when it really matters.

If we're talking strictly about this season, taking into account we've just finished half of the season, and we haven't even reached the business end of it, so a lot could change until the end of the season, but if we do, then Messi and Ronaldo really haven't been better than the likes of Neymar and Lewandowski. Also you have to take into account that this is probably Ronaldo's worst season in years, even in his worst season he is still among the top 5-6 attacking players in the world.

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Like scoring both of Real Madrid's goals against us in the CL semi-final last year? Like holding the all-time record for CL knockout goals? Yep. He doesn't score at all in the big matches. Don't be cray cray, Austria.

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Why are you posting this in middle of first half while Juve is playing. Keep your mind on important things. Juventus match. Not fanboy debate. Bad coyote.

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I see through your nefarious designs you fiendish impresario. Distracting Tuz members from watching their team. Absolutely malevolent of you.

Ya if I wasn't at work, I'd be watching the game too instead of debating Ronaldo, Messi stats