[SPA] La Liga 2009/2010 (14 Viewers)

[Alen]

Scolari didn't bench him, he was injured. So was Torres last season, mind you. They both made 24 appearances. Yet Torres scored 14 while Drogba only managed 5.

Torres started all 24 matches, Drogba started 15.

In CL Torres scored 2 on 9, Drogba scored 5 on 10.

Why do you keep bringing the EPL stats and not the overall stats?

 

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[Red]

I agree with Fred here. Overall Torres has the edge, and given the fact he plays in a much weaker team than Drogba, is much more effective.

Is it harder to score in a poor team that is entirely focused on setting goals up for you than it is to score in a good team not entirely focused on you?

 

[bianconero]

Zlatan>Villa (or reverse based on current form, but picked Zlatan due to more skill) > Torres (since Pool time, not before) > Drogba (total beast at his best, but not consistent enough in maintaining this in a more long term period).


This season, of these players, would say Drogba been the best.

Disagree, Villa has all the skill in the world, and brains to boot.

I would love to see him, as inthe national side, play in a great team

 

[Martin]

Fred, about what I said before, I shouldn't have said it. You're slacking off and Alen is kicking your BUTT

 

[Fred]

And about the age excuse you use.
Pavel Nedved played in the Czech league until he was 24. When he was 23 he scored only 6 goals all season.

Christian Vieri scored 7 goals for Atalanta when he was 23 and until he was 23 he played in serie B where he scored 26 goals on 86 matches.

Luis Figo played in Portugal until he was 23 and he scored 16 goals on 123 matches.

Zinedine Zidane was in France until he was 24 and Dugarry was considered a better and more expensive player. Zizou scored 6 goals in the season when he was 24.

Some players bloom later in their life or are discovered later in their life. So did Drogba. He wasn't great when he was 19, he is now.
Some do it earlier, like Torres, but it doesn't mean that they become 5 times better later in their life. Some keep the same high level.

Torres was better than Drogba when they were both kids, but even if you look at Torres' stats for Atletico you'll see that he scored 20 goals when he was 21, 13 when he was 22 and 15 when he was 23.
Then 33 when he was 24 and "only" 17 when he was 25 (almost the same number of matches he played in 07/08 and 08/09).

Torres scored 17 when he was 25, Drogba scored 21 when he was 25.
So what now?

You got me wrong, i never said that Torres would get better. I was just saying that its not fair that you didn't count Drogba's worst years when he was younger yet you counted Torres when he was younger.

The best and most fair way to compare the two players is to compare the impact they had on their current clubs, look at Drogba's first 3 seasons with Chelsea, he was nowhere near as influential as Torres in his first 3. Another way is to start counting the seasons as soon as Torres joined Liverpool, he has outperformed and outscored Drogba in every season in the EPL.

Drogba was average last season, extremely average. I have not seen Torres play a season as terrible as Drogba's ever. Neither has Drogba ever played a season like the season Torres played in 2007-2008.

By the time Torres reaches Drogba's age, he'll definitely have scored more goals by that time.

 

[bianconero]

Is it harder to score in a poor team that is entirely focused on setting goals up for you than it is to score in a good team not entirely focused on you?

Yes, if you mean Chelsea and Liverpool.

 

[Red]

Yes, if you mean Chelsea and Liverpool.

Maybe this season, but the gap between them wasn't so big in the last couple of seasons.

 

[Fred]

Torres started all 24 matches, Drogba started 15.

In CL Torres scored 2 on 9, Drogba scored 5 on 10.

Why do you keep bringing the EPL stats and not the overall stats?

Fred, about what I said before, I shouldn't have said it. You're slacking off and Alen is kicking your BUTT

Then you're not really following the argument well enough. Alen has only brought up stats that are favorable to him, stats do not tell the whole story. If he was fair he would have counted all Drogba's seasons as a proffesional like he did with Torres. Instead he chooses to leave out Drogba's flop seasons at the Ligue.

 

[Martin]

I told you before you're convincing. Well, you're not now

 

[bianconero]

Maybe this season, but the gap between them wasn't so big in the last couple of seasons.

Only because of Torres.



And Alonso.

 

[Fred]

Torres started all 24 matches, Drogba started 15.

In CL Torres scored 2 on 9, Drogba scored 5 on 10.

Why do you keep bringing the EPL stats and not the overall stats?

Erm no, actually Torres started 20 games. Drogba started 15 games.

Torres scored 14, while Drogba scored 5. You do the math.

I'm bringing EPL stats to show you how inconsistent Drogba is. He's been average in the league for a while now. He's always great in European nights, which is why people that see him mostly in the CL think of him highly (i think that is the case with you), and tend to overrate him a bit,

 

[Alen]

Stats on Anelka, anyone?

I'll start from his Arsenal seasons

1996-1997 (0/4) Arsenal
1997-1998 (9/40) Arsenal
1998-1999 (18/45) Arsenal
1999-2000 (4/28) Real Madrid
2000-2001 (13/37) PSG
2001-2002 (10/41) PSG & Liverpool
2002-2003 (14/41) Manchester City
2003-2004 (25/43) Manchester City
2004-2005 (11/37) Manchester City & Fenerbahce
2005-2006 (12/37) Fenerbahce
2006-2007 (12/41) Fenerbahce & Bolton
2007-2008 (13/46) Bolton & Chelsea
2008-2009 (25/51) Chelsea
2009-2010 (7/16) Chelsea

Total: 173 goals on 507
Average: 0.34 per match

Only while playing for English teams:
135 goals on 370 matches
Average: 0.37 goals per match

 

[Martin]

What about the guy in your avatar?

 

[bianconero]

Erm no, actually Torres started 20 games. Drogba started 15 games.

Torres scored 14, while Drogba scored 5. You do the math.

Fred, I think you statistical point is strong. When looking at players, let's consider the last 4 seasons, and I believe Torres us the better if the two.

Your English, however, could be better: it is maths.

 

[Alen]

Erm no, actually Torres started 20 games. Drogba started 15 games.

Torres scored 14, while Drogba scored 5. You do the math.

With just as many starts last year OVERALL (again, why do you keep ignoring the other competitions? And you say I bring the stats that suit my argument), Torres scored 17, Drogba scored 14.
If Drogba had such a bad season, then Torres didn't have a much better one.

Edit: Nevermind, didn't see your editing.

 

[Fred]

Fred, I think you statistical point is strong. When looking at players, let's consider the last 4 seasons, and I believe Torres us the better if the two.

Your English, however, could be better: it is maths.

True, very unfair taking Torres first seasons into account while ignoring Drogba's. It will be more fair to consider Torres seasons with a big team, ie Liverpool.


As for the bolded part, i'm sorry but our universities here use American English, so i'm used to it referred to as math.

 

[bianconero]

I'll start from his Arsenal seasons

1996-1997 (0/4) Arsenal
1997-1998 (9/40) Arsenal
1998-1999 (18/45) Arsenal
1999-2000 (4/28) Real Madrid
2000-2001 (13/37) PSG
2001-2002 (10/41) PSG & Liverpool
2002-2003 (14/41) Manchester City
2003-2004 (25/43) Manchester City
2004-2005 (11/37) Manchester City & Fenerbahce
2005-2006 (12/37) Fenerbahce
2006-2007 (12/41) Fenerbahce & Bolton
2007-2008 (13/46) Bolton & Chelsea
2008-2009 (25/51) Chelsea
2009-2010 (7/16) Chelsea

Total: 173 goals on 507
Average: 0.34 per match

Only while playing for English teams:
135 goals on 370 matches
Average: 0.37 goals per match

Class player, who brings so much to Chelsea. And I really believe he is more indespensable to them than Drogba.

By the way, where do you get these stats?- the ones I have are not so clear.

Any stats on Amauri?

 

[Martin]

True, very unfair taking Torres first seasons into account while ignoring Drogba's. It will be more fair to consider Torres seasons with a big team, ie Liverpool.


As for the bolded part, i'm sorry but our universities here use American English, so i'm used to it referred to as math.

You have that backwards, Atletico was the only big team so far

 

[Alen]

Fred, I think you statistical point is strong. When looking at players, let's consider the last 4 seasons, and I believe Torres us the better if the two.

Last 4 seasons (including this one)

Drogba scored 76 goals on 150 matches
Torres scored 75 goals on 136 matches

Yes, Torres is a little better (0.55 per match, while Drogba has 0.50).
Add the assists and you have a draw.

 

[Fred]

With just as many starts last year OVERALL (again, why do you keep ignoring the other competitions? And you say I bring the stats that suit my argument), Torres scored 17, Drogba scored 14.
If Drogba had such a bad season, then Torres didn't have a much better one.

Edit: Nevermind, didn't see your editing.

Drogba's goals came in the FA Cup and the Carling Cup though, thats what makes him closer to Torres, yet he was very disappointing in the league.