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Should Beppe Marotta be sacked? (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gian
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You missed my point. Both the coach and the director work together and the results of their work is determined by performance (so again together). There is no way you could assess the success of each individually. If any of the two is incompetent both will fail.
If you want to approach this in a more rigorous manner you will have to create a control environment which is impossible given the short professional history of both conte and Marotta. For example:
Marotta worked with Del Neri and Conte and the results where horrible with the former and great with the latter. This could be taken as an indication that Conte is the variable responsible for success right? wrong! and let me tell you why. Marotta worked with Del Neri in Sampdoria and the results were great. how would you explain that? Maybe Del Neri destroyed Marotta's good work with Juve? Its impossible to tell. Conte succeeded with both Siena and Juve with different directors but this does not imply that the Siena director (who failed with other coaches before) or Marotta are bad directors.
If you want to really assess each individually then you would need to have Conte working for a large number of teams with various directors and consistently delivering great results. Similarly, you would need to have records of Marrotta working with a vast number of coaches and consistently delivering good results. Again we dont have that because of the short professional history of both.
Now you are also suggesting Marotta be judged on a per-deal basis. This again is impossible because it assumes that there is a measurable real value of a player different from the market value (value he was bought/sold for). Perhaps there is a non-measurable value for any given player because market value includes a lot of things like age, perceived potential, perceived star power, locker room presence, work rate, injury proneness, marketability etc..but at least it is measurable at the point of purchase/sale (where the buyer is willing to buy and the seller willing to sell at that price). The non-measurable "real value" is subjective and two people would hardly ever agree on which criteria should be set for comparing players, the weights of each criteria given the position the player operates in and the most elusive problem of how well does the player do what his coach asks him to do in each particular match.
Even on Fifa, phyisical, mental and technical attributes arent the only things that determine who you find to be the best players on your team.
Point is in short: you cant separate the work of the coach from that of the director except when each of them have coached/directed with a large number of other coaches/directors and achieved results that can be seen as a trend. Also, judging on a per deal basis (in monetary non-performance related terms), will always depend on how you personally subjectively under bias and propaganda/peer influence (1) perceive the "real quality" of the player, (2) perceive the economic environment of the transfer market. You will compare (1) and (2) against the actual price payed for the purchase/sell to determine if it was a good deal or not.
Good night
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I am not comparing Galliani with marotta.. i was just looking for names everyone would be familiar with.
Judging squads on paper is subjective. Judging them based on performance has a lot to do with the coach's work. For cases where you have inexperienced coaches working with inexperienced Directors there is simply insufficient history/info to determine who is responsible for what.
If you want to approach this in a more rigorous manner you will have to create a control environment which is impossible given the short professional history of both conte and Marotta. For example:
Marotta worked with Del Neri and Conte and the results where horrible with the former and great with the latter. This could be taken as an indication that Conte is the variable responsible for success right? wrong! and let me tell you why. Marotta worked with Del Neri in Sampdoria and the results were great. how would you explain that? Maybe Del Neri destroyed Marotta's good work with Juve? Its impossible to tell. Conte succeeded with both Siena and Juve with different directors but this does not imply that the Siena director (who failed with other coaches before) or Marotta are bad directors.
If you want to really assess each individually then you would need to have Conte working for a large number of teams with various directors and consistently delivering great results. Similarly, you would need to have records of Marrotta working with a vast number of coaches and consistently delivering good results. Again we dont have that because of the short professional history of both.
Now you are also suggesting Marotta be judged on a per-deal basis. This again is impossible because it assumes that there is a measurable real value of a player different from the market value (value he was bought/sold for). Perhaps there is a non-measurable value for any given player because market value includes a lot of things like age, perceived potential, perceived star power, locker room presence, work rate, injury proneness, marketability etc..but at least it is measurable at the point of purchase/sale (where the buyer is willing to buy and the seller willing to sell at that price). The non-measurable "real value" is subjective and two people would hardly ever agree on which criteria should be set for comparing players, the weights of each criteria given the position the player operates in and the most elusive problem of how well does the player do what his coach asks him to do in each particular match.
Even on Fifa, phyisical, mental and technical attributes arent the only things that determine who you find to be the best players on your team.
Point is in short: you cant separate the work of the coach from that of the director except when each of them have coached/directed with a large number of other coaches/directors and achieved results that can be seen as a trend. Also, judging on a per deal basis (in monetary non-performance related terms), will always depend on how you personally subjectively under bias and propaganda/peer influence (1) perceive the "real quality" of the player, (2) perceive the economic environment of the transfer market. You will compare (1) and (2) against the actual price payed for the purchase/sell to determine if it was a good deal or not.
Good night
- - - Updated - - -
I am not comparing Galliani with marotta.. i was just looking for names everyone would be familiar with.
Judging squads on paper is subjective. Judging them based on performance has a lot to do with the coach's work. For cases where you have inexperienced coaches working with inexperienced Directors there is simply insufficient history/info to determine who is responsible for what.
. Isla is world class and we got the chance to buy him, opportunistic by Marotta to pounce on it.
How can you know Dzeko isn't available when we didn't even try. He could be not available for 15 mil, but City surely will listen to us if we came with a good offer.
And 18 mil for Isla is overpaying,especially because we didn't need him and he had no interest from other clubs.
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9 mil this, and 9 next no ...???
And 18 mil for Isla is overpaying,especially because we didn't need him and he had no interest from other clubs.
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9 mil this, and 9 next no ...???
Could be, or the other half could be in two years time. Either way, if you are making a point how this '€18m' could and should have been used for a striker then it's incorrect, as we haven't spent it yet.
Unless you can see an Italian club willing to part with a €30m+ (Jovetic and Cavani are pretty much the only two) striker in a co-ownership deal, which is virtually impossible.
Unless you can see an Italian club willing to part with a €30m+ (Jovetic and Cavani are pretty much the only two) striker in a co-ownership deal, which is virtually impossible.