Shooting in USA-thread. (9 Viewers)

[Hust]

Well the parents were separated and the dad hadn't seen his son in 2 years. That said, I don't think parents should be held responsible for things their 27 year old does. Truth is, we need a better societal solution to this problem. But unfortunately we will continue to make excuses for these atrocities until the next one occurs, then we'll make more excuses and send a few twitter prayers and so on and so forth. It's a sad state of affairs, but it's the new norm.

They aren't completely responsible but they did have a hand in how the 27 year old grew up.

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Yeah, we think you guys are pinko commies.



Lowballing us, eh? Armed militias. Second amendment. You know, no limits.

Even if they will do fuck all against a government deploying drones against its citizens and serve mainly for the masses to shoot each other for Hobbesian survival.



Australia went through this. I heard the black market there prices a gun at like $35,000.



We don't have a bomb culture problem like some nations. There isn't the glory in it. Schwarzenegger doesn't go around in Hollywood movies dropping pressure cookers on bad guys. It's a poor aesthetic.

Remember, most of these loons are aggrieved losers who believe the world did them wrong and they're out to seek retribution and vengeance. Bombs don't fit that narrative as easily: too impersonal against the victims.



What's weird is a little of the similarities between that guy's mom and the mom of the Sandy Hook killer. Both went through ugly divorces (perhaps their children being part of the reason?). Both knew their kids had mental problems and partly covered for them. Both encouraged their sons to go deep into guns as an outlet.

Of course, one of those moms was shot dead first.

Do you think mental illness is partially a result of poor parenting or his family surrounds growing up?

Also, Australia paying 35,000 for a gun make sense especially since everything is important. Here people know how to make guns so you'd have to ban the technology to make them likewise if push comes to shove people would probably get them from Mexico since they have no problems getting guns there, and no, not the ones our fantastic government gives them.

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You do realise that this goes against every statistic of every developed country available? In your thesis gun crime and violence would be huge in Europe as gun bans are pretty much universal. Yet gun related deaths are much higher in the States.

You are making zero sense. I get that you guys have an emotional attachment to guns, but please don't pretend you're arguing on a rational basis.

I'm done debating you because you refuse to hear any side but your own. You are European and love that you are, I get it. I'm American and love that I am. We will never find a common middle ground on guns so our debate ends here.

 

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[swag]

They aren't completely responsible but they did have a hand in how the 27 year old grew up.

But as the uncle of a kid on the autism spectrum (he's got a form of Aspergers and has had suicidal delusions - though that doesn't make him a potential mass murderer), you can't blame the parents for a lot of it. Sure, maybe encouraging his gun hobby is irresponsible. But a lot of the challenges of these people are out of their parents' direct control.

 

[Seven]

I'm done debating you because you refuse to hear any side but your own. You are European and love that you are, I get it. I'm American and love that I am. We will never find a common middle ground on guns so our debate ends here.

No. You deny facts, statistics and common sense, just because you like guns. And I have never liked being European better than being American. Both have their merits. It's just that being European is easier.

 

[Hust]

That's the point, much less people will be able to afford it.

And for your second point, if it's so much better & easier to make a bomb, how come there have been so much fewer school bombings than shootings? But seriously, that last argument is ludicrous, if they're gonna find a way in any case we might as well give them nuclear weapons. Of course they can find a way to harm people if they're smart and determined, but the harder it is for them, the fewer people will actually go through with it, and the fewer people will get killed by those who do. It's about minimising damage rather than abolishing it alltogether, which would indeed be impossible.



My post was directed at the instances as the one described in the article, where often little children shoot/get shot with irresponsibly stored firearms.

People will still buy gun...crime lords will buy in bulk from abroad and sell to the highest bidders here.

Same reason drug users with no money still manage to buy what they need. A criminal needs a gun to achieve his objectives they would still find a way to buy a gun or guns.

I get the issue with irresponsible households. But that;s like saying you should ban alcohol because of some irresponsible people who drive drunk and kill an innocent person.

 

[JuveJay]

"Making it harder to get a gun will result in more gunrelated deaths".


- How are we even debating this nonsense?

People are going to shoot each other trying to get hold of more guns.

 

[Seven]

People are going to shoot each other trying to get hold of more guns.

Hustini even has the audacity to claim I'm only seeing my side.

What is up with these people? I can only assume this is due to a lifetime of indoctrination, because it makes no sense at all.

 

[Hust]

No. You deny facts, statistics and common sense, just because you like guns. And I have never liked being European better than being American. Both have their merits. It's just that being European is easier.

I don't deny facts, I simply state why its more important to me and millions of other Americans why we want to own guns regardless of statistics. I'll take my chances. Common sense to me is protecting my family or people having the right to do the same. Common sense to you is removing guns or making it impossible to get one thus giving criminals the upper hand.

 

[Seven]

I don't deny facts, I simply state why its more important to me and millions of other Americans why we want to own guns regardless of statistics. I'll take my chances. Common sense to me is protecting my family or people having the right to do the same. Common sense to you is removing guns or making it impossible to get one thus giving criminals the upper hand.

I know statistics are just numbers, but they do represent actual dead people you know. Gunrelated violence apparently goes down when gun control goes up. I'm not saying it will prevent these shootings, but it will make them less frequent. And you can't protect your daughter if she's at school, even if you have a gun at home.

But apparently you have a better chance of adequately protecting your family by voting in favour of gun control rather than buying a firearm yourself. Insofar you really believe that you need a gun to protect your loved ones, you appear to live in a country that is no safer than Somalia or Congo. That is just frightening.

 

[Hust]

Europeans don't understand American culture any more or less than we understand European culture.


Our country was founding on the individual taking care of themselves and independence from government rather than dependance on government. Same applies. Rather than wait 5-10 mins for police to arrive at an emergency someone called in, again, I will take my chances at home if the situation ever arrived.

 

[Enron]

People will still buy gun...crime lords will buy in bulk from abroad and sell to the highest bidders here.

Same reason drug users with no money still manage to buy what they need. A criminal needs a gun to achieve his objectives they would still find a way to buy a gun or guns.

I get the issue with irresponsible households. But that;s like saying you should ban alcohol because of some irresponsible people who drive drunk and kill an innocent person.

There aren't statistics to back this up Cam. Most countries with some sort of fire arm restrictions have far less fire arm mortalities than we do.

 

[Hust]

But apparently you have a better chance of adequately protecting your family by voting in favour of gun control rather than buying a firearm yourself. Insofar you really believe that you need a gun to protect your loved ones, you appear to live in a country that is no safer than Somalia or Congo. That is just frightening.

In some areas, yes that is absolutely true. Especially depending on the color of your skin compared to that area.

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There aren't statistics to back this up Cam. Most countries with some sort of fire arm restrictions have far less fire arm mortalities than we do.

Mexico?

 

[Seven]

Europeans don't understand American culture any more or less than we understand European culture.

Our country was founding on the individual taking care of themselves and independence from government rather than dependance on government. Same applies. Rather than wait 5-10 mins for police to arrive at an emergency someone called in, again, I will take my chances at home if the situation ever arrived.

Oh I get that. It's just that statistics prove time and time again that it doesn't work that way. In your head you think of this scenario where you heroically hold a thief or murder at gunpoint and turn him over to the cops. In reality your two year old finds your gun and shoots her mom.

There aren't statistics to back this up Cam. Most countries with some sort of fire arm restrictions have far less fire arm mortalities than we do.

Exactly.

In some areas, yes that is absolutely true. Especially depending on the color of your skin compared to that area.

But is it true in your neigbourhood?

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Mexico?

You seriously believe you should compare the US to Mexico?

 

[Enron]

Europeans don't understand American culture any more or less than we understand European culture.


Our country was founding on the individual taking care of themselves and independence from government rather than dependance on government. Same applies. Rather than wait 5-10 mins for police to arrive at an emergency someone called in, again, I will take my chances at home if the situation ever arrived.

Don't be so certain about that. The Declaration of Independance was signed by a group of people who decided to form a union against what they thought was an injustice.

Obviously you have the right to defend your family in case of a home invasion or some sort of terrible thing that I hope never happens to you. However, since the odds of you having to defend your family from certain death are far lower than that of a mass or school shooting. Then surely you can understand why these things take precedence over your individual rights.

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Mexico?

School shootings and mass shootings (unrelated to cartel violence) are non-existent here.

 

[Stevie]

The USA is one seriusly fucked up country atm. Between the gun laws, lack of medical care, corruption, greed, celebrity culture and fucked up media i dont know what is more damaging. Its a shame because there is so much good about it ive loved it everytime i have visted for holidays but sadly would not like to live there long term because of the things ive mentioned.

 

[Enron]

You seriously believe you should compare the US to Mexico?

That's where I live.

 

[Seven]

That's where I live.

I know, but I meant that you can't compare the two as the US has a far better equipped police system.

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The USA is one seriusly fucked up country atm. Between the gun laws, lack of medical care, corruption, greed, celebrity culture and fucked up media i dont know what is more damaging. Its a shame because there is so much good about it ive loved it everytime i have visted for holidays but sadly would not like to live there long term because of the things ive mentioned.

I love how you can drive for five hours and hear nutjob after nutjob say we're all going to hell on the radio.

 

[Hust]

Interesting article on Chicago posted yesterday:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...o-how-does-it-compare-to-the-rest-of-america/

And this is the best "Statistic" related article I could find regarding guns and their relation to states with/without gun laws:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/s/53345/states-with-most-gun-laws-see-fewest-gun-related-deaths

When it comes to self-defense laws in the U.S., there are two broad categories for states: “stand your ground,” and “duty to retreat.”

In “duty to retreat” states, a person must attempt to flee from the dangerous situation before resorting to deadly force, unless they’re already in their own home or private property. But in other states, “stand your ground” laws offer complete immunity from prosecution for the person defending him or herself with deadly force, whether the encounter occurs in that person’s home, or in a public setting.

What I'm gathering here, and which I agree with completely, is the need for more laws and making it more difficult to get a gun because it works in most cases. But outlawing guns completely is stupid.

 

[Stevie]

I love seeing grown men shit themselves on the subway on a hot sticky monday morning.

 

[Hust]

School shootings and mass shootings (unrelated to cartel violence) are non-existent here.

They are pretty much everywhere. But the criminals still get guns.

We are skirting around the issue of either mass/school shootings or general homicide shootings.

 

[lgorTudor]

Meanwhile I have to shoot shitty CO2 guns in my yard instead of awesome actual guns. life's unfair