Shooting in USA-thread. (27 Viewers)

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,749
The mentally ill are very visible in America though. Sure, there are crazy homeless people in Belgium too. But I somehow get the impression that because America is a land of extremes it must be easy to become confused as an adolescent or twentysomething. I sure am glad that I didn't grow up in America, even if I have absolutely loved my time there and wouldn't mind living there either.
I dunno. You compare a city like London or Paris to San Francisco, and they all have homeless people. The major difference is that the ones in SF/the US are far and away more mentally damaged.
 

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Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,318
I dunno. You compare a city like London or Paris to San Francisco, and they all have homeless people. The major difference is that the ones in SF/the US are far and away more mentally damaged.
Paris is bad I'll give you that.

The thing is, I honestly believe that American society as it is today is a breeding ground for mental illness. I don't pretend to know why, it's just an observation.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
115,943
Your Chicago argument is very naive and screams lack of basic understanding of logic. What's more sad is that you really think you proved a point with that argument.

Also, mentally ill people are everywhere in the world. These incidents however are pretty much unique to the US. Not saying guns alone are at fault but having appropriate gun laws is a necessity (but clearly not a sufficiency), a start (to cure, not the cure), and a matter of common sense.
It proves that gun bans do not equate to reducing violent crime. Throw in the fact that law-abiding citizens can arm themselves against criminals who don't care about laws, there is sufficient evidence you can curtail the threat of crime, as what has occurred in Detroit. The fact we have what is essentially a total drug ban and major drug epidemic in this country should cause folks to deduce that reducing legal access to firearms will do jack squat here. Gangs, robbers, and mass shooters will get their hands on weapons regardless of a ban, just like junkies will spend 20K on the corner to get their high.

So tell me. Why all the crazies?
Conglomeration of reasons, one of which is overmedication. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people now, including family members, that struggle with anti-D's and other types of drugs. It really does cause them to make irrational decisions.
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
31,784
What? How? And what does crazy have to do with homeless? I don't recall the last time a homeless person was involved in such incidents as Oregon's shooting. So where I walk from home to school everyday is basically home to the homeless, and they are only what they are; homeless. Given the population, European countries have their own fair share of crazies, wouldn't make me wish to have grown up there on the basis of that.
Take a trip on the subway here, you'll see some shit.

Sometimes literally. Like an extremely drunk/high homeless man shitting himself on the Q train while rambling about God knows what...
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,749
It proves that gun bans do not equate to reducing violent crime.
If things only worked in isolation like that. The challenge is that you cannot prove that the violent crime wouldn't be worse without the gun ban. What's unusual about Chicago are the lawless neighborhoods and Sinaloa cartels pumping dope and sucking out money, and that doesn't translate to most parts of 'Merica either.
 

Bjerknes

"Top Economist"
Mar 16, 2004
115,943
If things only worked in isolation like that. The challenge is that you cannot prove that the violent crime wouldn't be worse without the gun ban. What's unusual about Chicago are the lawless neighborhoods and Sinaloa cartels pumping dope and sucking out money, and that doesn't translate to most parts of 'Merica either.
Yeah, I get your point. One real-world example would be Detroit. At least a few Chicago residents would have some recourse if the ban would be lifted. It's sort of like the Sarbanes-Oxley of crime.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
Take a trip on the subway here, you'll see some shit.

Sometimes literally. Like an extremely drunk/high homeless man shitting himself on the Q train while rambling about God knows what...
You need to see DC. You would think the Capital for the most powerful nation on earth would do something for homeless but in fact its worse here than anywhere I've seen that is.

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Also, there is a known homeless scheme here...there is this guy that parks his Beamer behind some Italian restaurant in Georgetown but you see him begging on the corner of Wisconsin and M Street in Georgetown.

Incredible how much money he gets by doing nothing.
 

AFL_ITALIA

MAGISTERIAL
Jun 17, 2011
31,784
You need to see DC. You would think the Capital for the most powerful nation on earth would do something for homeless but in fact its worse here than anywhere I've seen that is.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, there is a known homeless scheme here...there is this guy that parks his Beamer behind some Italian restaurant in Georgetown but you see him begging on the corner of Wisconsin and M Street in Georgetown.

Incredible how much money he gets by doing nothing.
Oh yeah, that happens here too. It's a shame too, because there are many people that really need the money instead. There's this one guy by the Freedom Tower with a sign, apparently every week he has his 22nd birthday.

But if anything, this also shows why we need to spend our tax dollars better.
 

Hust

Senior Member
Hustini
May 29, 2005
93,703
Oh yeah, that happens here too. It's a shame too, because there are many people that really need the money instead. There's this one guy by the Freedom Tower with a sign, apparently every week he has his 22nd birthday.

But if anything, this also shows why we need to spend our tax dollars better.
Here is an example: This is LITERALLY the intersection of Wisconsin & M St. NW in Georgetown where my CK store was:

The guy in orange shirt...the guy with the whale hat, cane and knee brace, and the guy in the white shirt with the microphone in hand...they literally compete with one another every single day...whoever gets to that spot first stays there or they get into arguments like a turf war :lol:

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Yes, everyone, I google Street viewed them and its the same day. Don't believe me, go through the street view yourself :D
 

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swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,749
Yeah, I get your point. One real-world example would be Detroit. At least a few Chicago residents would have some recourse if the ban would be lifted. It's sort of like the Sarbanes-Oxley of crime.
You were spot on about Detroit and corruption though, IMO.

And you're right about the SOX of crime. :lol:
 

icemaη

Rab's Husband - The Regista
Moderator
Aug 27, 2008
36,320
You need to see DC. You would think the Capital for the most powerful nation on earth would do something for homeless but in fact its worse here than anywhere I've seen that is.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, there is a known homeless scheme here...there is this guy that parks his Beamer behind some Italian restaurant in Georgetown but you see him begging on the corner of Wisconsin and M Street in Georgetown.

Incredible how much money he gets by doing nothing.
Begging is a multi-million dollar industry worldwide. It's only fair America got a piece of that action :p
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,318
You need to see DC. You would think the Capital for the most powerful nation on earth would do something for homeless but in fact its worse here than anywhere I've seen that is.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, there is a known homeless scheme here...there is this guy that parks his Beamer behind some Italian restaurant in Georgetown but you see him begging on the corner of Wisconsin and M Street in Georgetown.

Incredible how much money he gets by doing nothing.
Lots of homeless schemes all over the world though. And the money they make is still fairly little.

It proves that gun bans do not equate to reducing violent crime. Throw in the fact that law-abiding citizens can arm themselves against criminals who don't care about laws, there is sufficient evidence you can curtail the threat of crime, as what has occurred in Detroit. The fact we have what is essentially a total drug ban and major drug epidemic in this country should cause folks to deduce that reducing legal access to firearms will do jack squat here. Gangs, robbers, and mass shooters will get their hands on weapons regardless of a ban, just like junkies will spend 20K on the corner to get their high.



Conglomeration of reasons, one of which is overmedication. Unfortunately, I know a lot of people now, including family members, that struggle with anti-D's and other types of drugs. It really does cause them to make irrational decisions.

I think the American right to be offended has a lot to do with it as well. Caitlyn Jenner needs to be praised and if people call her a man that's offensive. Fact is, she didn't even have surgery. So why do I have to call him/her a beautiful woman if she's a 65 year old man with obvious mental issues who has not only been very irritating for his entire life, but has also apparently just run over someone?

It's that kind of shit that prevents people from saying to a crazy man 'hey, dude, you sound kind of crazy, wake the fuck up'. Add to that the fact that indeed, you prescribe medication for just about anything (Europe is heavily overmedicated too though) and the use of social media to show everyone else's perfect life and frustrations are bound to grow.

Like I've said before, growing up in the US these days must be incredibly difficult.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,318
That looks like the typical case where gun control would make all the difference. Assuming the father wasn't a criminal, he wouldn't have had a gun and the kid couldn't have taken it and couldn't have shot the girl. Opinions, @Bjerknes, X?
 

Cheesio

**********
Jul 11, 2006
22,514
It's ridiculous to think that America's gun policy have nothing to do with the huge amount of mass shooting and muders happening there. Ban the guns and if it result on preventing just 1% from the casualties that's fucking great. It's simple logic, easy access to the guns for the lunatics more mass shooting and murders.

And can't see how the fact that owning guns protect your family imo it puts them in more danger.
 

Raz

Senior Member
Nov 20, 2005
12,218
That looks like the typical case where gun control would make all the difference. Assuming the father wasn't a criminal, he wouldn't have had a gun and the kid couldn't have taken it and couldn't have shot the girl. Opinions, @Bjerknes, X?
In this case all the fault should lie on improper safekeeping of the gun. If it was placed in a safe and outside of reach, 11 year old would not have had the possibility to get it. Not saying guns should be free for all, but in this case it's down to the owner not keeping it safe place.

But if it is kept in a safe and in a hard to get place where you can't access it instantly, then what use it is for a self defense?

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It's ridiculous to think that America's gun policy have nothing to do with the huge amount of mass shooting and muders happening there. Ban the guns and if it result on preventing just 1% from the casualties that's fucking great. It's simple logic, easy access to the guns for the lunatics more mass shooting and murders.

And can't see how the fact that owning guns protect your family imo it puts them in more danger.
Wouldn't it be better to try to deal with lunatics in the country and see why there are so many of then and what can be done to lower that, then just ban everything that could be harmful?
 

Cheesio

**********
Jul 11, 2006
22,514
Wouldn't it be better to try to deal with lunatics in the country and see why there are so many of then and what can be done to lower that, then just ban everything that could be harmful?
Agree with you, the US should deal with the mentally ill and the lunatics better, the gun easy access is a major problem imo, ban them and try to deal with the sick people you have. I can't see how can any sane person defend america's gun policy.
 

Seven

In bocca al lupo, Fabio.
Jun 25, 2003
39,318
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

"A study of firearm deaths in high income countries (Australia, Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom (England and Wales), United Kingdom (Northern Ireland), United Kingdom (Scotland), and the United States) was conducted with data from the World Health Organization assembled by the WHO from the official national statistics of each individual country from 2003 (Richardson and Hemenway, 2011). The total population for the United States for 2003 was 290.8 million while the combined population for the other 22 countries was 563.5 million. There were 29,771 firearm deaths in the US and 7,653 firearm deaths in the 22 other countries. Of all the firearm deaths in these 23 high-income countries in 2003, 80% occurred in the US.".
 

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