Serie A 2017/18 (12 Viewers)

[MikeM]

Handball is almost completely subjective. It is written that way purposely so attackers can't hunt for handballs by just smashing it against arms. And also it's impossible to determine someone's intention. At this point it is basically ruled by convention. Convention says you can't score with your hand.

There are others instances of convention that are accepted, that are not in the rules. For example, "hands away from the body". When you're challenging something like a cross with your hands way out, it may not be intentional handball, but you know the ball could hit your hand. So referees have adopted that "rule" as their own at this point.

 

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[napoleonic]

I think that's a very reasonable way to look at it.

If it were me I'd also add another rule that compliment with var : active handball goal prevention should be punished with A GOAL and a red card, no more penalty to prevent incident like with uruguay in wc 2010 where a sure goal was prevented and the subsequent penalty was missed.

 

[DAiDEViL]

Just now saw that Tschalanolu miss against Lazio @zizinho

 

[X Æ A-12]

Just now saw that Tschalanolu miss against Lazio @zizinho

had to google. ::

 

[Post Ironic]

Handball is almost completely subjective. It is written that way purposely so attackers can't hunt for handballs by just smashing it against arms. And also it's impossible to determine someone's intention. At this point it is basically ruled by convention. Convention says you can't score with your hand.

There are others instances of convention that are accepted, that are not in the rules. For example, "hands away from the body". When you're challenging something like a cross with your hands way out, it may not be intentional handball, but you know the ball could hit your hand. So referees have adopted that "rule" as their own at this point.

This is why Neymar's headed goal was ruled out in the CL final against us. And it was far less blatant than Cutrone's. He headed the ball off his outstretched arm, and it tucked into the corner past Gigi. If it hadn't gone off his arm it would have gone wide. The ref ruled it out. Neymar wasn't carded or anything for it. The same deal should have happened with Cutrone. VAR should have easily caught as multiple angles showed it to be very obvious that it didn't even come off his head first in this case. He shouldn't have been carded or anything, just the goal should have been disallowed.

The vast majority of handballs called are clearly not intentional. However, it's never a problem anywhere on the pitch but in the penalty area, so it's easy to blow the whistle. In the penalty area, this intentional/non-intentional, natural/unnatural arm position, extended/tight to body, becomes an endless debate that is totally subjective to the ref as nowhere in the rules does it say anything about arm extended, or what exactly a natural arm position is supposed to be.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

This is why Neymar's headed goal was ruled out in the CL final against us. And it was far less blatant than Cutrone's. He headed the ball off his outstretched arm, and it tucked into the corner past Gigi. If it hadn't gone off his arm it would have gone wide. The ref ruled it out. Neymar wasn't carded or anything for it. The same deal should have happened with Cutrone. VAR should have easily caught as multiple angles showed it to be very obvious that it didn't even come off his head first in this case. He shouldn't have been carded or anything, just the goal should have been disallowed.

The vast majority of handballs called are clearly not intentional. However, it's never a problem anywhere on the pitch but in the penalty area, so it's easy to blow the whistle. In the penalty area, this intentional/non-intentional, natural/unnatural arm position, extended/tight to body, becomes an endless debate that is totally subjective to the ref as nowhere in the rules does it say anything about arm extended, or what exactly a natural arm position is supposed to be.

I love when you two Canadian motherfuckers drop knowledge on Tuz.

 

[MikeM]

This is why Neymar's headed goal was ruled out in the CL final against us. And it was far less blatant than Cutrone's. He headed the ball off his outstretched arm, and it tucked into the corner past Gigi. If it hadn't gone off his arm it would have gone wide. The ref ruled it out. Neymar wasn't carded or anything for it. The same deal should have happened with Cutrone. VAR should have easily caught as multiple angles showed it to be very obvious that it didn't even come off his head first in this case. He shouldn't have been carded or anything, just the goal should have been disallowed.

The vast majority of handballs called are clearly not intentional. However, it's never a problem anywhere on the pitch but in the penalty area, so it's easy to blow the whistle. In the penalty area, this intentional/non-intentional, natural/unnatural arm position, extended/tight to body, becomes an endless debate that is totally subjective to the ref as nowhere in the rules does it say anything about arm extended, or what exactly a natural arm position is supposed to be.

That's another thing with handballs. They're supposed to be intentional. And if they're intentional then they're unsportsmanlike and should be cautioned. Every time they should be cautioned.

But they are cautioned maybe 5% of the time and players, coaches, fans, don't care at all. Because it's logical not to caution a player when you may or may not know if his intention was to handle the ball.

The entire rule is more or less the most ambiguous rule in the laws of the game and I actually think the referees deserve massive credit for getting it right usually. It's basically a pure judgment call every time.

 

[Maddy]

This is why Neymar's headed goal was ruled out in the CL final against us. And it was far less blatant than Cutrone's. He headed the ball off his outstretched arm, and it tucked into the corner past Gigi. If it hadn't gone off his arm it would have gone wide. The ref ruled it out. Neymar wasn't carded or anything for it. The same deal should have happened with Cutrone. VAR should have easily caught as multiple angles showed it to be very obvious that it didn't even come off his head first in this case. He shouldn't have been carded or anything, just the goal should have been disallowed.

The vast majority of handballs called are clearly not intentional. However, it's never a problem anywhere on the pitch but in the penalty area, so it's easy to blow the whistle. In the penalty area, this intentional/non-intentional, natural/unnatural arm position, extended/tight to body, becomes an endless debate that is totally subjective to the ref as nowhere in the rules does it say anything about arm extended, or what exactly a natural arm position is supposed to be.

I agree with most of what you wrote, I can just can't slip that you are still mentioning "natural position". There's no such a thing in the football laws

Anyways, the hand rule needs some sort of adjustment. Currently the ethics of the game, which are very different from country to country often goes straight against the 'handling the ball'-rule. This open up for so much debate and frustration - Cutrone's goal a good example. You could argue from the alws, that the goal should be allowed.

The rules currently allows for a ball to be hit by a players arm/hand and then into the goal. The rule should rather sound something like: "The ball isn't allowed to hit the hand or the arm, unless the player did [everything] he could to avoid it ie. (travel time, position of arm and movement of arm), furthermore a clear intention of using your arm/hand to handle the ball should be penalised with a yellow card; attempt to score/save a goal should be penalised with a red car"

Cutrones goal disallowed due to travel time and arm position, but no card shown neither red or yellow.

 

[Post Ironic]

agree with all of that.

 

[Vialli_92]

With the way the rules are now goals can be prevented accidentally and goals can be scored accidentally with the arm and no fouls given which should never be allowed in my opinion

If a goal is stopped or scored with the arm a foul should be given regardless of intent and regardless if they couldn't do anything about it as the arm is never used for making contact with the ball

I would put it down to the spirit of the game that goals shouldn't be scored or prevented by an arm without a foul being given

 

[s4tch]

[video=twitter;958727759366369280]https://twitter.com/pepromano/status/958727759366369280[/video]

 

[Lion]

 

[Juvellino]

 

[JuveJay]

LOL, so true.

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

fantastic

 

[Hust]

 

[Gagi]

this is golden as well

[video=twitter;958790893938597889]https://twitter.com/lincler10/status/958790893938597889[/video]

"ask beppe"

 

[Hængebøffer]

With the way the rules are now goals can be prevented accidentally and goals can be scored accidentally with the arm and no fouls given which should never be allowed in my opinion

If a goal is stopped or scored with the arm a foul should be given regardless of intent and regardless if they couldn't do anything about it as the arm is never used for making contact with the ball

I would put it down to the spirit of the game that goals shouldn't be scored or prevented by an arm without a foul being given

But you were right. There's no such thing as "unnatural position in the law and it really annoys me that commentators and experts still mention this as a rule. As I've wrote here many times before.. I know a former UEFA linesman. He educated my old football club about this 12 years ago. You can't shoot and celebrate (cause you think it's a goal), but if the ball hits the bar and then your and it's goal, the goal is legit. I said back then that the rules leaves too much for the ref to decide in real time. It's really difficult to decide if it's deliberate and ball to hand and not hand to ball.

 

[Niku]

That put a smile on my face.

 

[Elvin]

I don't get what's so hard. It's not that hard. I personally always know when it's a handball and when it's not. Cutrone definitely should have been disallowed, but if it hit a defending player in the same manner the play should continue.

Handballs are a little instinctive but fairly easy to call IMO.