Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (71 Viewers)

s4tch

Senior Member
Mar 23, 2015
34,115
Ukraine War: Vladimir Putin has gambled everything and lost - Atlantic Council

Why did Putin act so stupidly? One answer is that he may have lost touch with reality after hiding from COVID-19 in a bunker for two years. Another is that, as the unchallenged boss of the Kremlin for more than two decades, his advisors are reluctant to tell him what they fear may upset him.

Putin’s recent meeting of the Russian Security Council was particularly revealing of the dangerously dysfunctional power dynamics in the Kremlin, with Putin alone on a throne-like seat while his minions sat across the vast hall on wooden chairs, facing him like schoolchildren.

Another possibility is that he has completely bought into the Russian imperial and Soviet historical propaganda narratives that have traditionally consigned Ukrainians to somewhere between non-existence or the status of Russia’s subservient younger brother. It’s quite possible that this ideology has blinded Putin and many of his supporters to the reality of a Ukrainian nation with its own interests and culture.


it was written before yesterday, still, it's a good read
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
5,862

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,911
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_anti-war_protests_in_Russia

this looks like a rather thorough account, around 6000 protesters arrested up until yesterday. Tbh I expected more from a country with 144 million population, Belarus only have 9.4 million people and their demonstrations last year despite the absolutely brutal response were much louder
It's really tricky to demonstrate during a war, kinda too late, it's never a good look after that. It doesn't matter how righteous or not, "once you in it you in it, ain't no going back."
 

Strickland

Senior Member
May 17, 2019
5,862
It's really tricky to demonstrate during a war, kinda too late, it's never a good look after that. It doesn't matter how righteous or not, "once you in it you in it, ain't no going back."
Well it's not like Putin gave them a heads up, they kept denying invasion up until the very last moments and even then they announced a freedom mission for the "republics" and instead went full scale across half of Ukraine. So I don't see how it's not a good look to protest now, their gov kept lying to everyone up until recently.

Just to be clear, I have the utmost respect to the protesters in Russia, I just wish there were more of them. Because judging by social media, there're also a lot of pro-war Russians
 

Akshen

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2010
10,776
Ukraine War: Vladimir Putin has gambled everything and lost - Atlantic Council

Why did Putin act so stupidly? One answer is that he may have lost touch with reality after hiding from COVID-19 in a bunker for two years. Another is that, as the unchallenged boss of the Kremlin for more than two decades, his advisors are reluctant to tell him what they fear may upset him.

Putin’s recent meeting of the Russian Security Council was particularly revealing of the dangerously dysfunctional power dynamics in the Kremlin, with Putin alone on a throne-like seat while his minions sat across the vast hall on wooden chairs, facing him like schoolchildren.

Another possibility is that he has completely bought into the Russian imperial and Soviet historical propaganda narratives that have traditionally consigned Ukrainians to somewhere between non-existence or the status of Russia’s subservient younger brother. It’s quite possible that this ideology has blinded Putin and many of his supporters to the reality of a Ukrainian nation with its own interests and culture.

it was written before yesterday, still, it's a good read
Dunno, somehow i feel he isnt that stupid and has some ace in his sleeve... unfortunately...
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,814
It's really tricky to demonstrate during a war, kinda too late, it's never a good look after that. It doesn't matter how righteous or not, "once you in it you in it, ain't no going back."
Depends. The anti-war demonstrations in the US over Vietnam wore down public support for the war. But then the US didn't have a leader who would round up every protestor and make them wear Navalny underwear.
 

Jäger

Senior Member
May 2, 2021
1,529
Dunno, somehow i feel he isnt that stupid and has some ace in his sleeve... unfortunately...
This is what I've been saying. I find it incredibly hard to believe that he didn't prepare for a scenario like this. I'm sure he expected things to go better militarily, but there must have been a Plan B or Plan C up his sleeve. He's not stupid.
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,911
Well it's not like Putin gave them a heads up, they kept denying invasion up until the very last moments and even then they announced a freedom mission for the "republics" and instead went full scale across half of Ukraine. So I don't see how it's not a good look to protest now, their gov kept lying to everyone up until recently.

Just to be clear, I have the utmost respect to the protesters in Russia, I just wish there were more of them. Because judging by social media, there're also a lot of pro-war Russians
Cus it's much easier to win over a Russian whose life is not crippled by sanctions and a conflict blamed on the west, i don't know about you but if i am a Russian and anti war i would not protest at this point.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,814
Seems like attacks are more agressive today
Russia has hardly thrown their heavy hand just yet. But their costs seem to keep rising the more they break down.

But you never know when there could be a push as part of a later negotiating strategy. But to be honest, I think Putin is too damaged to legitimately negotiate. You'd be better off trying to negotiate with a badger in heat.
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,923
Dunno, somehow i feel he isnt that stupid and has some ace in his sleeve... unfortunately...
Honest question: what accomplishment or decision by Putin would make you think he is smart? Staying in power for 22 years? That's not due to intelligence, but brute force and bribery. What else?
 

GordoDeCentral

Diez
Moderator
Apr 14, 2005
70,911
Depends. The anti-war demonstrations in the US over Vietnam wore down public support for the war. But then the US didn't have a leader who would round up every protestor and make them wear Navalny underwear.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this was about 3-4 years after the war had started and vets were coming back home giving live accounts of what it's like.
 

swag

L'autista
Administrator
Sep 23, 2003
84,814
Honest question: what accomplishment or decision by Putin would make you think he is smart? Staying in power for 22 years? That's not due to intelligence, but brute force and bribery. What else?
As much as I would like to see Putin toppled domestically, you have to ask if it takes a Putin and maybe an even worse one to get to the top to effectively manage the morass that is Russia.
 

Elvin

Senior Member
Nov 25, 2005
36,923
As much as I would like to see Putin toppled domestically, you have to ask if it takes a Putin and maybe an even worse one to get to the top to effectively manage the morass that is Russia.
You lost me at 'effectively" bro. Nothing about Putin's regime has been effective except corruption schemes.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 56)