Russia - Ukraine Conflict 2022 (87 Viewers)

[s4tch]

This first and foremost. Plus, Putin not willing to have a potentially thriving democracy of a closest ethno-linguistic neighbor -- would raise way too many complaints and questions for him domestically.

why not entertain the idea that dictators often lose their touch with reality, either because they are most probably sociopaths at first place or because of the information bubble they created for themselves? see the tweet kopanja just posted: stalin believed that they were strong enough and were doing well, just because nobody dared to tell him bad news. same applies to putin himself. dunno whether he lost his mind or he just lives in an information vacuum. i'm not sure whether he started this war if he had proper realistic accurate intels, not just the filtered good news he's allegedly been fed with.

 

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[Juventino[RUS]]

why not entertain the idea that dictators often lose their touch with reality, either because they are most probably sociopaths at first place or because of the information bubble they created for themselves? see the tweet kopanja just posted: stalin believed that they were strong enough and were doing well, just because nobody dared to tell him bad news. same applies to putin himself. dunno whether he lost his mind or he just lives in an information vacuum. i'm not sure whether he started this war if he had proper realistic accurate intels, not just the filtered good news he's allegedly been fed with.

Putin was deceived, probably because his peasants didn't expect that he will attack ukraine, they were lying to him that Ukrainian army is nothing, that ethnic Russians from Kharkov and Mariupol will welcome Russian army and will be happy to join Russia, that Zelensky is a pussy that will runaway and so on and so on

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I agree with the first part but don't think I can with the bold.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a simplistic view, it certainly isn't the only option but you are categorically denying the notion that this war happened because NATO promised Ukraine it could join and Russia didn't want to wait for it to happen.

What in your mind is Russia reason then? Pure imperialistic desire? Unipolar world? we know it ain't the nazis

NATO never promised anything to Ukraine, stop spreading Russian propaganda, Jesus Christ

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The west is so fucked up, Putin's propaganda absolutely destroyed peoples brains

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If you blame NATO, Ukraine, Zelensky, Americans, reptiloids, martians, but not Putin and his cronies for everything that have happened in and around Russia in the past 20 years then you are dumb as fuck

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Imagine if this is truth

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Their window for them to make a change(freedom, democracy) is also closing. For Serbia they are almost there(spiraling towards autocracy) , yet Hungary are still kept up by the EU even if Orban wins again.
Kick Hungary out of the EU and they are probably going to become just like Russia.
So is Serbia.

Hungrexit? Hunexit? Hgrexit?

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Almost all Putin apologist have 3 things in common.
They are trump supporters, antivax and anti globalization conspiracy nuts.
You can somewhat add to that nationalistic and religious zealots.

Saw a commentary on Facebook (a Romanian ) that left me perplexed. It said because Mr Putin was fighting against the international cabal(whatever the hell that is), he is entitled to do anything, including killing civilians, because he has the average citizen best interests in mind.
Even my aunt is spreading Russian propaganda, about how the west has fallen, how great Russia is and NATO bad, yet when she run out of money and opportunities in Romania, guess where she found work. In decadent England. She didn't run to Russia.
The definition of a useful idiot.
The sad thing is you can't reason with this idiots. Mostly lack critical thinking.

Exactly, even people on this forum somehow can't see all the parallels

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

 

[s4tch]

Hungrexit? Hunexit? Hgrexit?

huxit

might happen in a few years if orbán wins the elections this sunday

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

huxit

might happen in a few years if orbán wins the elections this sunday

Orbxit

 

[Elvin]

huxit

might happen in a few years if orbán wins the elections this sunday

hope to fuck he loses then

 

[GordoDeCentral]

I agree with the first part but don't think I can with the bold.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a simplistic view, it certainly isn't the only option but you are categorically denying the notion that this war happened because NATO promised Ukraine it could join and Russia didn't want to wait for it to happen.

What in your mind is Russia reason then? Pure imperialistic desire? Unipolar world? we know it ain't the nazis

It's quite the opposite of being simplistic, you keep it nuanced which is always very wise. But I'll answer you with a question, if nato didn't exist you think putin doesn't invade Ukraine?
For me it's the same reason Saddam invaded kuwait, it's the belief that historically it belongs to you, a bruised ego, and that you actually have the means to just take it with no big cost to pay.

 

[Juventino[RUS]]

Bloomberg: Russia is offering oil to India at $65 per barrel, with the current market price of $105-115.

Putin's propaganda - the mighty Putin dictates terms to a dying Europe.
Reality - pathetic clown Putin is ready to sell our oil with discount of 40-45% just to get at least some money

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Also
https://m.economictimes.com/news/ec...-may-be-up-this-week/articleshow/90551703.cms
Russia's state-owned development bank VEB and the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) have likely finalized an alternative transaction platform to facilitate bilateral trade after Western sanctions firewalled Moscow's access to the globally used Swift banking platform, two people familiar with the matter told ET.

 

[Buck Fuddy]

I agree but every lie has a some truth in it.

Ah, the things you read on 'tuz.

 

[IliveForJuve]

So let's revise Tuz hierarchy.

RUS > Badass > Dusan? Or is it still Dusan ahead of Badass?

 

[pavelnel]

I agree but every lie has a some truth in it. Same for propaganda. Propaganda is not exclusively a lie.

A basic tenant of propaganda is to use a massive overload of information so it becomes almost impossible to distinguish truth and lie.

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Ha, you're 20.

The Earth is flat.
Find the truth in that statement.

Изпратено от моят XQ-AU52 с помощта на Tapatalk

 

[Dostoevsky]

So let's revise Tuz hierarchy.

RUS > Badass > Dusan? Or is it still Dusan ahead of Badass?

Dude.

 

[Vlad]

I agree with the first part but don't think I can with the bold.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a simplistic view, it certainly isn't the only option but you are categorically denying the notion that this war happened because NATO promised Ukraine it could join and Russia didn't want to wait for it to happen.

What in your mind is Russia reason then? Pure imperialistic desire? Unipolar world? we know it ain't the nazis

Former Soviet republic, with historically close ties to Russia, thriving in recent years once they removed puppet leader. He couldnt allow this to go on. What is next? It is a threat to his very existance. Him and his cronnies have pillaged Russia over the last 2 decades, accumulated unpreccedented wealth. He isnt afraid of Nato, EU, but of his people standing up against him, ending his tiranny. Every other reason is cheap propaganda that he can sell to masses to deflect. Imo

 

[Ronn]

again for the millionth time: there is a huge difference between countries that have never really lived a good life brought via globalization and then there's Moscow. The Iran/N.Korea's idea of surviving is very different to modern Russia/Moscow's.

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This first and foremost. Plus, Putin not willing to have a potentially thriving democracy of a closest ethno-linguistic neighbor -- would raise way too many complaints and questions for him domestically.

Again, you have no clue what you’re talking about. Iranian middle class enjoyed a very good lifestyle prior to 1979, and relatively good one after Iran Iraq war concluded in 1987. That doesn’t matter much since middle class proved to be entirely powerless in the face of brutal authoritarianism of the mullahs and the IRGC.

 

[Elvin]

Again, you have no clue what you’re talking about. Iranian middle class enjoyed a very good lifestyle prior to 1979, and relatively good one after Iran Iraq war concluded in 1987. That doesn’t matter much since middle class proved to be entirely powerless in the face of brutal authoritarianism of the mullahs and the IRGC.

are you really fucking gonna compare the quality of life in 2022 compared to 30-40 years ago? There was no globalization with all of its perks. Internet, free travel, global brands is pretty much a necessity too, once you're used to them.

It's one thing to never have something, it's another thing to enjoy everything the world has to offer then have it brutally taken from you because of one man. If a significant enough number of Muscovites believe that removing this regime will mean back to the good days they will rise.

 

[Ronn]

are you really fucking gonna compare the quality of life in 2022 compared to 30-40 years ago? There was no globalization with all of its perks. Internet, free travel, global brands is pretty much a necessity too, once you're used to them.

It's one thing to never have something, it's another thing to enjoy everything the world has to offer then have it brutally taken from you because of one man. If a significant enough number of Muscovites believe that removing this regime will mean back to the good days they will rise.

Post 1987 doesn’t end in 1987 you imbecile

 

[Tomice]

why did russia do nothing when the baltic countries joined the nato in '04? according to your narrative, they had all the reason to attack those 3 countries before they've been added.

It's not my narrative. it's theirs (maybe). Putin wasn't in charge back then and he regards that as one of the greatest mistakes in Russian history post the USSR.

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If we are talking about broken treaties, Russia broke the Budapest memorandum when they annexed Crimea In 2014, and are in violation of it ever since.

they did and are but we weren't talking about it.

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Why would there necessarily be a war later on when UA joins NATO? I dont think the West plan to conquer Russia even if they have another Russia adjacent country joining.

I don't think they worry about NATO attacking them.
It's not about being afraid from NATO aggression, it's about Ukraine joining will deny them the option of doing what they are doing now. So they acted before

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It's quite the opposite of being simplistic, you keep it nuanced which is always very wise. But I'll answer you with a question, if nato didn't exist you think putin doesn't invade Ukraine?
For me it's the same reason Saddam invaded kuwait, it's the belief that historically it belongs to you, a bruised ego, and that you actually have the means to just take it with no big cost to pay.

Fair point. agree, I think he possibly does.

I'm saying it could possibly would have played out differently if NATO offer was of the table from the beginning (as it should have been cause it was never a realistic option). I think it deprived Ukraine of the ability to make more independent decisions to an extant in how to deal with Russia.
I also do think Ukraine could have prepared even better for this if they didn't have some vague faith in NATO, again its only my opinion but I think they thought NATO will help them much more then they eventually did.

https://www.wionews.com/world/west-...kraine-eu-foreign-policy-chief-borrell-461270

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Former Soviet republic, with historically close ties to Russia, thriving in recent years once they removed puppet leader. He couldnt allow this to go on. What is next? It is a threat to his very existance. Him and his cronnies have pillaged Russia over the last 2 decades, accumulated unpreccedented wealth. He isnt afraid of Nato, EU, but of his people standing up against him, ending his tiranny. Every other reason is cheap propaganda that he can sell to masses to deflect. Imo

I think it's a fair argument but I disagree, I don't think he does it for internal reasons and I don't think he has any fear for his regime.

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Ah, the things you read on 'tuz.

It's a saying, not a literal statement

 

[Strickland]

I agree with the first part but don't think I can with the bold.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's a simplistic view, it certainly isn't the only option but you are categorically denying the notion that this war happened because NATO promised Ukraine it could join and Russia didn't want to wait for it to happen.

What in your mind is Russia reason then? Pure imperialistic desire? Unipolar world? we know it ain't the nazis

I don't think they worry about NATO attacking them.

It's not about being afraid from NATO aggression, it's about Ukraine joining will deny them the option of doing what they are doing now.

So basically your words confirm that the reason for war has nothing to do with NATO whatsoever. You basically argue that it had an effect on the timing of the war, but even that Im not sure I agree with, I think Putins timing is much more dictated by internal processes rather than external.

 

[Tomice]

again for the millionth time: there is a huge difference between countries that have never really lived a good life brought via globalization and then there's Moscow. The Iran/N.Korea's idea of surviving is very different to modern Russia/Moscow's.

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This first and foremost. Plus, Putin not willing to have a potentially thriving democracy of a closest ethno-linguistic neighbor -- would raise way too many complaints and questions for him domestically.

Tehran in the 60s,70s and even the 80's was a much better city to live in then Moscow

 

[Elvin]

Tehran in the 60s,70s and even the 80's was a much better city to live in then Moscow

lol no