Ranieri or someone else ; Part XXVII (9 Viewers)

[only-juve]

i don't hate him but he is not much of a manager, maybe great backroom staff and a good pundit but tactically he is very naive. this would be a backwards step, as hard as that is to believe! but people want him as he was a great player for us,emotions get clouded sometimes when we see a past hero and think of him as a coach.

plus he has been out of teh management game for a while, i want someone whose finger is on the pulse

Thats hardly true, in 2 years with chelsea he won the FA cup, the league cup, the Cup winners cup and the European supercup. And that chelsea team was not full of superstars like the one we see today, then Ranieri took over and won nothing!!!

He had achieved in 2 years with chelsea what ranieri couldn't do in a lifetime career as a coach. Can't ask for more from a young manager .

Always reted Vialli ever since he started he's coaching career with chelsea and even as a player he was a speciall player (didn't impress much with us but was a legand with sampdoria).....

 

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[icemaη]

Then why did his Watford side finish in the bottom half, even though he brought in new players? and then why didn't he pursue a career in coaching after his disastrous run at Watford?

 

[Bozi]

exactly people tend to forget that chelsea were big spenders back then, they brought in Gullit,Vialli,Deschamps,Desailly,Zola,etc.....it was after this when they were struggling financially that Ranieri came in. then when he did have money he was up against a team that never lost a game.

not that i am defending Ranieri here but folk here never seem to look at the whole picture

 

[dogsarecute]

Ranieri came in and brought Chelsea from CL contenders to title contenders. So in a way, he is better in the league while Vialli has more achievements in cup matches.

 

[Cronios]

all im saying is that changing the coach is a step closer in the right way to take them all down.

Unfortunately, i think its quite the opposite. They will use the coach as a scapegoat and get away with it. Thats why we must root them out first, this is our priority.
Even a CR could have won a championship with someone like Moggi at his back.
But not even Jose cant win a championship with Secco running the show...

 

[Amaurisimo]

I said few times already that no one from the list above would make bigger impact than CR.
I am for change, but the right one..Also i think Conte could be right long term choice for Juve, but after maybe 2-3 seasons spent coaching in Seria A..Why we should take another gamble? Isn't one enough already?

 

[Osman]

Man, I thought only idiotic fanboy clowns would go for options like Vialli, not posters I thought was sensible.

 

[Mike-e-y]

Then why did his Watford side finish in the bottom half, even though he brought in new players? and then why didn't he pursue a career in coaching after his disastrous run at Watford?

Come on man that was Watford, they were a small team and he handled them very badly. The man had never played for a small team and his first job as a coach was for a good premier league team, he just had no experience at that level and didn't understand it. I know it sounds stupid but some managers cant cut it at the small teams, vialli was one of them.

exactly people tend to forget that chelsea were big spenders back then, they brought in Gullit,Vialli,Deschamps,Desailly,Zola,etc.....it was after this when they were struggling financially that Ranieri came in. then when he did have money he was up against a team that never lost a game.

not that i am defending Ranieri here but folk here never seem to look at the whole picture

Get your point Boz, and i want to state i dont even want vialli here as a manager. Before Abramovic chelsea were struggling big time financially, but they were when vialli was manager as well. Gullit before vialli spent a lot of money so vialli did feel some of those effects. This is all a very long time ago now, so its hard to really draw conclusions about how good a manager he would be now, i'd really rather not take that risk.

 

[white_rabbit]

I just compiled a statistic regarding managers performances from the beginning of 2007/2008 season until round 33 of 2008/2009 season.

Ranieri:
- winning increased from %53 last season to %58 this season.
- draws declined from %32 last season to %24 this season
- losses increased from %16last season to %18 this season.

Conte:
- winning increased from %31 last season to %41 this season.
- draws decreased from %38 last season to %33 this season.
- losses decreased from %31 last season to %27 this season.

Prandelli:
- winning increased from %50 last season to %55 this season.
- draws decreased from %24 last season to %12 this season.
- losses increased from %26 last season to %33 this season.

Spalletti:
- winning decreased from %63 last season to %45 this season.
- draws decreased from %26 last season to %21 this season.
- losses increased from %11 last season to %33 this season.

Gasperini:
- winning increased from %34 last season to %48 this season.
- draws increased from %24 last season to %27 this season.
- losses decreased from %42 last season to %24 this season.

the total percentage is %100 for each year, for each manager

I hope this helps

 

[Amaurisimo]

on Conte last paragraph should be

- losses decresed from %31 last season to %27 this season.

Still CR doing better than last season so its something


Thanks for stats

+1

 

[V]

sorry V-man but you are talking out of your arse here, Vialli did fairly well with Chelsea but they were still pretty well off back then(in fact it was this splashing of cash that got them into problems later when ranieri was in charge) but flopped hopelessly at Watford when he had to use his footballing brain

I don't think I've at any point emphasised Vialli's achievements as a coach, even though I think he did fairly well with Chelsea, my point was: our squad has obviously lost faith in the current coach and there's no getting back that faith. I have not said Vialli, or Conte for that matter, is better than Ranieri. It's about getting back the motivation and bringing in fresh ideas and I feel a young coach, someone with history in the club, could be the guy to do that. Be that Vialli, Conte or Ferrara to me it doesn't matter, I think it's worth a shot since we obviously can't lure a big name like Hiddink.

I'm not overly convinced with Prandelli, Spalleti, Gasperini, etc. who can just as easily fail in a big club like Juventus.

 

[Bozi]

Come on man that was Watford, they were a small team and he handled them very badly. The man had never played for a small team and his first job as a coach was for a good premier league team, he just had no experience at that level and didn't understand it. I know it sounds stupid but some managers cant cut it at the small teams, vialli was one of them.

a good coach will always get his ideas across to the players, in fact it is a truer test of coaching ability

Get your point Boz, and i want to state i dont even want vialli here as a manager. Before Abramovic chelsea were struggling big time financially, but they were when vialli was manager as well. Gullit before vialli spent a lot of money so vialli did feel some of those effects. This is all a very long time ago now, so its hard to really draw conclusions about how good a manager he would be now, i'd really rather not take that risk.

it si not a risk i want to take either and the folk here shouting about how they want Vialli really need to have a good look at themselves and ask what they want for the future.
we have made mistakes already in the past, the next coach simply HAS to be the RIGHT coach

 

[Bozi]

I don't think I've at any point emphasised Vialli's achievements as a coach, even though I think he did fairly well with Chelsea, my point was: our squad has obviously lost faith in the current coach and there's no getting back that faith. I have not said Vialli, or Conte for that matter, is better than Ranieri. It's about getting back the motivation and bringing in fresh ideas and I feel a young coach, someone with history in the club, could be the guy to do that. Be that Vialli, Conte or Ferrara to me it doesn't matter, I think it's worth a shot since we obviously can't lure a big name like Hiddink.

I'm not overly convinced with Prandelli, Spalleti, Gasperini, etc. who can just as easily fail in a big club like Juventus.

at least prandelli,spaletti,gasperini have got some experience and are still in the game,vialli woudl eb a mistake. conte could be a choice but we have to be sure, maybe he will be ready in a few years time

 

[cyril]

The real problem is with our directors transfer policy, our team is simply not good enough to compete on 3 fronts. Yes ranieri isn't the best of coaches, but it's not fair to be blaming him for everything while he has an under par team with our best players reaching the end of their careers...

 

[Lo-Pan]

It makes sense to go for Conte, who is already more experienced as a manager and match fit, if that term can be used for a manager as it is used for a player. I would be happy to see either of them at the helm...though Conte is clearly the favoured option. He is a ball of passion, and his work at Bari shows that he has a decent amount of tactial nous for a 39 year old.

Still, these questions are mute, because if we are to believe Cobolli, Secco, Blanc and Ranieri, there is zero chance of a change of management.

What worried me today was Ranieri's talk of 'we will be back to the top in 5 years time'

He also talks up the team when we have played very poorly, seeming to be content with effort rather than quality. That would explain his mentality regarding Molinaro, but to adopt the same measure for the team as a whole is disturbing and horrifying, for a team of Juve's stature. I go back to the idea of Progress. If no Progress is made, the manager must be changed. We are not Genoa, blissfully content with our position near the top, we are Juventus. a team with a proud history of success.

 

[V]

at least prandelli,spaletti,gasperini have got some experience and are still in the game,vialli woudl eb a mistake. conte could be a choice but we have to be sure, maybe he will be ready in a few years time

Ranieri's got a shitload of experience, more than all of them combined. Experience isn't everything.

There's no way of knowing when a coach is ready. Slaven Bilic had no coaching experience ever but he was appointed the coach of the U21 NT and soon the coach of the regular NT. Everyone doubted his lack of experience but he made it all up with his charisma, respect the players gave him and determination to do things his way. Sometimes a little faith goes a long way. Conte, Ferrara or Vialli can be just like that. Next season or after two more seasons of leading Bari or Empoli. They'll be just as ready.

 

[Dominic]

Ferrara will give us an unmatched winning streak.

 

[Lion]

I think we should go after Benitez. I reckon he would be a realistic target as well.

 

[- vOnAm -]

The thing that has bothered me most is Ranieri's comments.

I have always defended him, but the last month has been a total disaster. We threw away the scudetto and the cup in a matter of weeks. I seriously did not understand his team choice against Lazio, as the cup was all we were playing for.

What's worst are his comments.
I can't believe how much not winning feels so normal when he's commenting.

But I would definitely take a shot at Secco before Ranieri.

 

[Bozi]

Ranieri's got a shitload of experience, more than all of them combined. Experience isn't everything.

There's no way of knowing when a coach is ready. Slaven Bilic had no coaching experience ever but he was appointed the coach of the U21 NT and soon the coach of the regular NT. Everyone doubted his lack of experience but he made it all up with his charisma, respect the players gave him and determination to do things his way. Sometimes a little faith goes a long way. Conte, Ferrara or Vialli can be just like that. Next season or after two more seasons of leading Bari or Empoli. They'll be just as ready.

conte and ferrara fall under that auspice but vialli has tried his hand at management and not faired very well. oh and a large percentage of untried managers fail miserably