Paul Pogba (105 Viewers)

[-=DJANGO=-]

this same old ridiculous argument as if that would've just stopped fucking Ronaldo jesus christ dude

There is a reason why we have Stones as a starting CB for City these days. Pep Barcelona team would have been literally killed on the field if they played Goikoetxea and the likes. There is a reason they haven't been found a universal style of playing to rule them all once and for ever. It's not the lack of efforts and neither is it the huge change in athletes. This is not F1.

Maybe the oldest most ridiculous argument is the truth...

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And what does that have to do with how good they are? DP, Pirlo, and Totti played during those eras and they still had really long and successful careers.

Who said anything about top players not being successful? The question is about domination. They wouldn't dominate, cause they would be out injured for longer periods for once. R9 was arguably stronger than both players yet he was kicked off the park. The man or the ball passes, never both mentality. Today a must red, ergo not an option.

Talking about Pirlo - ask yourself why was he more famous and was he really better when he was older. I think it goes a long way towards the point.

 

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[Cerval]

Define better tho. What makes the previous generation so much better? And what’s the cutoff point? When does the new one start and the old one begin? We going by decades?

It's a slow transition, world football changes every year. You start noticing more obvious diferences after 3-5 years

I'm not going into the reasons that makes the previous generations better, instead I'll point out this generation's shortcomings. Midfielders and defenders in this era are bad. Barcelona's midfield would be benched hard by the one of the 2000's, Chelsea's too, etc. Nowadays you get inconsistent players such as Emre Can, Pjanic and Verratti hailed as superstars. Bar Madrid and Bayern, and arguably Barca, midfields are either average or bad whereas before there were many more teams having quality. Standards have dropped

Even the level of strikers bar Messi and Ronaldo has diminished, Suarez isn't as good as before, Falcao has fallen; Lewa, Cavani, and Aguero are ageing, and there's no up and coming newcomers except Salah and Kane

 

[Juventino★★★]

This, people just wanna wear their rose tinted glasses. CR7 and Messi would’ve been great regardless of the era.

you think Messi and C.Ronaldo could score 60+ goals a season in 90's and early 2000's era? players were man marked and bullied out of the game until they get replaced. it's way different now... all they care about is how to out score their opponent

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[ALC]

Who said anything about top players not being successful? The question is about domination. They wouldn't dominate, cause they would be out injured for longer periods for once. R9 was arguably stronger than both players yet he was kicked off the park. The man or the ball passes, never both mentality. Today a must red, ergo not an option.

Talking about Pirlo - ask yourself why was he more famous and was he really better when he was older. I think it goes a long way towards the point.

You don’t know that they wouldn’t dominate, that’s just wishful thinking. R9 didn’t dominate because he was injury prone, just like Aguero for example.

And Pirlo became more famous because he got more visibility. Internet and soccer being watched more. He was always a beast.

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It's a slow transition, world football changes every year. You start noticing more obvious diferences after 3-5 years

I'm not going into the reasons that makes the previous generations better, instead I'll point out this generation's shortcomings. Midfielders and defenders in this era are bad. Barcelona's midfield would be benched hard by the one of the 2000's, Chelsea's too, etc. Nowadays you get inconsistent players such as Emre Can, Pjanic and Verratti hailed as superstars. Bar Madrid and Bayern, and arguably Barca, midfields are either average or bad whereas before there were many more teams having quality. Standards have dropped

Even the level of strikers bar Messi and Ronaldo has diminished, Suarez isn't as good as before, Falcao has fallen; Lewa, Cavani, and Aguero are ageing, and there's no up and coming newcomers except Salah and Kane

New strikers will come out. You forgot Neymar and Mbappe. It’s a cycle.

I don’t agree that midfielders have gotten worse, I think a lot of them have gotten better and this the average is of a higher standard, making the great ones not stand out as much.

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you think Messi and C.Ronaldo could score 60+ goals a season in 90's and early 2000's era? players were man marked and bullied out of the game until they get replaced. it's way different now... all they care about is how to out score their opponent

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Maybe not as many goals as the game is faster paced but there is no doubt in my mind they’d stand out the same

 

[-=DJANGO=-]

You don’t know that they wouldn’t dominate, that’s just wishful thinking. R9 didn’t dominate because he was injury prone, just like Aguero for example.

And Pirlo became more famous because he got more visibility. Internet and soccer being watched more. He was always a beast.

No one knows, but its not wishful thinking. Its an educated guess and the logic is discussed. Huge difference.

R9 did dominate. Perhaps you are disputing? You call scoring a ton of goals in an automated team and in times where the rules are made for goals - a domination. But thats what stats and little context do to you. They had to actually dial back on some of the punishment for defenders, because people were questioning the sanity of this goals 'spectacle'.

Aguero and R9 have bigger quality difference than Messi and Aguero. Injuries included.

Pirlo became more famous, but not better. I agree he was always a beast. But neither soccer nor the internet were invented or grew in popularity in such a dazzling speed for this short period. Competition became worse.

 

[Cerval]

New strikers will come out. You forgot Neymar and Mbappe. It’s a cycle.

I don’t agree that midfielders have gotten worse, I think a lot of them have gotten better and this the average is of a higher standard, making the great ones not stand out as much.

What? Name them.

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Lampard, Xavi, Deco, Prime Iniesta, Ze Roberto, Gerrard, Ballack, Prime De Rossi, Scholes, Xabi Alonso, Prime Mascherano, Pirlo, Gattuso, Cambiasso, Senna, Riquelme, Sneijder, Essien, Prime Fabregas, Makelélé, Prime Thiago Motta, Kaka, Seedorf, Van der Vaart, Werder Diego, Juninho, etc.

Now that's a generation

 

[Hist]

C. Ronaldo and Messi are enjoying talentless phase, they have no challenge.

Brazilian Ronaldo played in an era full of talents in every position...just look at teams like Parma, Chelsea, Fiorentina, Ajax during his time. even bottom teams had 2-3 players to be feared.

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Really? Suarez, Neymar, Bale, Lewandowski, Robben, Vidal, Cavani, Ribery, Ibra, Xavi, Iniesta, Modric ...these are talentless? FFS Owen, Nedved and Shevchenko beat Ronaldo/Zidane to the ballon do'r some years and none of the above even got a sniff of it in the Messi/Ronaldo era.

PSG, City & Chelsea were nobodies back then. 3 ultra rich clubs that have 2 star studded squads each. Even Spurs, Dortmund and ATM are better than they were in the Ronaldo/Zidane Era. This more than makes up for Lazio & Parma's decline. Serie A declined but the EPL, Bundesliga, Ligue 1 and most of all La Liga have progressed a lot.


Ronaldo did play in super teams. They were called the Galacticos. They had 3 ballon do'r winners and they never became a dominant force the way CR7s and Messi's teams are.

CR7 surpassed the brazillian a few years ago and Messi is on a whole different level.

 

[Hydde]

every geenration evolves in every sport and every generation polish the sport more than the previous.

Im pretty sure that some of the fast paced teams of today, would beat some fo the great teams fo the past because of the tempo , speed of plays and the pressing. Teams of the 90s played very slow football.

 

[pitbull]

What? Name them.

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Lampard, Xavi, Deco, Prime Iniesta, Ze Roberto, Gerrard, Ballack, Prime De Rossi, Scholes, Xabi Alonso, Prime Mascherano, Pirlo, Gattuso, Cambiasso, Senna, Riquelme, Sneijder, Essien, Prime Fabregas, Makelélé, Prime Thiago Motta, Kaka, Seedorf, Van der Vaart, Werder Diego, Juninho, etc.

Now that's a generation

Yeah, thats not 90ties, thats like 5-15 years ago. Besides it'd not be hard to compare a similar listof nowadays footballers, it might not have the same amount of maestros like Pirlo or Xavi or Xabi, but there are still the other types: ruthless Dms, goalscoring box to box, freekick specialists etc

 

[Monty]

What? Name them.

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Lampard, Xavi, Deco, Prime Iniesta, Ze Roberto, Gerrard, Ballack, Prime De Rossi, Scholes, Xabi Alonso, Prime Mascherano, Pirlo, Gattuso, Cambiasso, Senna, Riquelme, Sneijder, Essien, Prime Fabregas, Makelélé, Prime Thiago Motta, Kaka, Seedorf, Van der Vaart, Werder Diego, Juninho, etc.

Now that's a generation

Wow that is a terrible list

 

[-=DJANGO=-]

In the spirit of this thread - there are reports Paul Pogba will be used as bargaining chip in order for Mourinho to get the players he wants.

Verratti (which we already knew ) , Alex Sandro, Varane and Toni Kroos are the players Mourinho is supposedly looking for. The only realistic deals, where United doesn't get raped are PSG and us.

Pogback if we let Sandro leave?

 

[Kopanja]

I would gladly welcome him back; he is a terrific football player. It won't happen though :frown:

 

[zizinho]

What? Name them.

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Lampard, Xavi, Deco, Prime Iniesta, Ze Roberto, Gerrard, Ballack, Prime De Rossi, Scholes, Xabi Alonso, Prime Mascherano, Pirlo, Gattuso, Cambiasso, Senna, Riquelme, Sneijder, Essien, Prime Fabregas, Makelélé, Prime Thiago Motta, Kaka, Seedorf, Van der Vaart, Werder Diego, Juninho, etc.

Now that's a generation

one just has to go back tgo as far as 2006, no further than that. take every top NT and compare its players to 2006, whos better right now? arguably Spain and Germany. who got worse? England, Portugal, Netherlands, France, Italy, Brazil, Argentina. enough said really

 

[Ventus]

As I keep saying, different era, different game.

Having said that, I do think people need to take off their nostalgic glasses.

 

[Cerval]

Yeah, thats not 90ties, thats like 5-15 years ago. Besides it'd not be hard to compare a similar listof nowadays footballers, it might not have the same amount of maestros like Pirlo or Xavi or Xabi, but there are still the other types: ruthless Dms, goalscoring box to box, freekick specialists etc

Wow that is a terrible list

Much better than current still. Don't need to go as far as 90's or early 2000's to notice a difference. But in hindsight maybe there's a couple I've included that shouldn't be there and some I'm forgetting

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As I keep saying, different era, different game.

Having said that, I do think people need to take off their nostalgic glasses.

The nostalgic glasses argument is boring. Way to completely dismiss a comparison without giving it much thought, let's simply assume current generation has no weaknesses and be stubborn since that's a cool trend in here

 

[Ventus]

Much better than current still. Don't need to go as far as 90's or early 2000's to notice a difference. But in hindsight maybe there's a couple I've included that shouldn't be there and some I'm forgetting

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The nostalgic glasses argument is boring. Way to completely dismiss a comparison without giving it much thought, let's simply assume current generation has no weaknesses and be stubborn since that's a cool trend in here

So then how are we comparing each era? You put Pirlo in the 00s era, but not in the 10s when he had arguably his best club form between 2011-2.
Give me a time frame to compare players, then we can compose proper lists.

 

[zizinho]

So then how are we comparing each era? You put Pirlo in the 00s era, but not in the 10s when he had arguably his best club form between 2011-2.
Give me a time frame to compare players, then we can compose proper lists.

is 33 yo Pirlo better than 27 yo Pirlo?

 

[Ventus]

is 33 yo Pirlo better than 27 yo Pirlo?

Its difficult to say, but at club level, I don't think Pirlo had a better season than 11/12. Age isn't always a factor though, look at Dzeko for example. Anyway like I said, time frames need to be established as do how players are allocated. Del Piero for example arguably had his best years in the 90s as did Brazilian Ronaldo, however they are were still world class players in the 2000s. Hence Xiavi, Iniesta, Ibrahimovic etc covered both pre and post messi-ronaldo dominance.

 

[Bianconero81]

Ok faggots. Once your beloved Messi or CR7 guide their country to a World Cup, I'll take off my "nostalgic glasses" and join your dick tugging parade. Until then, I advise the Pseudo Albanian and American Jew to stick to Lacrosse or other sports they grew up watching before soccer became mainstream in the year 2000, and those innocent children actually became aware of what a "soccer" ball is.

 

[ALC]

Ok faggots. Once your beloved Messi or CR7 guide their country to a World Cup, I'll take off my "nostalgic glasses" and join your dick tugging parade. Until then, I advise the Pseudo Albanian and American Jew to stick to Lacrosse or other sports they grew up watching before soccer became mainstream in the year 2000, and those innocent children actually became aware of what a "soccer" ball is.

So Iniesta > Platini

Glad we agree on something