Paul Pogba (28 Viewers)

[Ocelot]

Wat?

How is it not Mourinho's fault? He's at the richest club in the world, they broke the transfer world record, got a top 5 striker in the world for free, got Bundesliga player of the year Mikhitaryan, and Bailly who they all seem to think is the best CB in the EPL.

This isn't Italy where the Sporting director goes and buys players and the coach has to figure out how to use them. Mourinho gets to choose his own targets. He chose to buy those players and spend a ridiculous fee on Pogba when they could have brought in 2-3 players for that fee to strengthen more areas that needed work. He chose to sit still in January when they were still easily in contention for 2nd place.

It is his fault he took 9 months to figure out how to get Pogba to play well. It is his fault he never figured out how to use the Armenian. It is his fault for misusing Martial so badly that he stunk to high heaven. It is his fault for becoming too dependent on Zlatan and not rotating enough. And it is his fault they finished 6th. Just like it was his fault for the epic collapse of Chelsea last year,

Oh, I was talking without taking into account his influence on transfers. Wouldn't make sense otherwise in the context of the post I replied to.

He did get players that, while being great players, were really not what the team needed for the most part.

 

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[Post Ironic]

Oh, I was talking without taking into account his influence on transfers. Wouldn't make sense otherwise in the context of the post I replied to.

He did get players that, while being great players, were really not what the team needed for the most part.

They were players he asked for, so he's really made his own bed and now has to lie in it.

Allegri on the other hand has dealt with losing 7 of 11 starters from 2014-15 team. Vidal, Tevez, Pogba, Pirlo, Evra, Morata, Licht (he's done). That's an entire midfield 3, both starting forwards, both fullbacks.

And he has little say in Juventus targets. He works with what Marotta provides. And look how dominant we are.

I'd be willing to bet a large portion of this forum thought United had a better mercato than us in September. Most here would have said Pogba>Pjanic, Zlatan>Higuain, Mikh>Pjaca, Bailly and Alves not really comparable but so many here called Alves washed up. Allegri also had to deal with losing both Morata and Pogba.

Mou has been dreadful, both as a coach and picking transfer targets. United will improve next year because eventually the money spent will show on the pitch, but it doesn't change the fact they were appalling this year.

 

[United#7]

You guys got a $#@!ty midfield, and you bought two players who only excell if they are carried by awesome players.


If you got Verratti or Modric instead of Pogba, you'd have won the premier league.

Neither Verratti or Modric were/are for sale. We went for the best option - best CM in his age group and someone with legitimate world class potential. It sure wasn't a perfect season but you can't possibly criticise the decision without the benefit of hindsight.

It is his fault he took 9 months to figure out how to get Pogba to play well. It is his fault he never figured out how to use the Armenian. It is his fault for misusing Martial so badly that he stunk to high heaven. It is his fault for becoming too dependent on Zlatan and not rotating enough. And it is his fault they finished 6th. Just like it was his fault for the epic collapse of Chelsea last year,

- Pogba started the season well, faded around November, and picked his performances up around February.
- Except he did figure out how to use Mkhi. He just doesn't score as many goals as he did, but trust me, there isn't anyone more important in our attacking buildups (maybe except Herrera) or who scored more important goals than HM.
- We really had no choice but to rely too much on Zlatan and not rotate. Aside from Zlatan, a 19 year old kid (as good as he is) is our second best option. I cannot stress enough how badly Moyes and LVG did with their transfers.
- Martial was stinking it up during the Euros as well. He's getting outplayed by Lingard of all people. That's simply on him. I do hope we don't give up on the kid as he was fantastic for us last year, but he needs to stick his finger out.

I'd be willing to bet a large portion of this forum thought United had a better mercato than us in September. Most here would have said Pogba>Pjanic, Zlatan>Higuain, Mikh>Pjaca, Bailly and Alves not really comparable but so many here called Alves washed up. Allegri also had to deal with losing both Morata and Pogba.

Mou has been dreadful, both as a coach and picking transfer targets. United will improve next year because eventually the money spent will show on the pitch, but it doesn't change the fact they were appalling this year.

United had a vastly better mercato though. The fact that Juve won a double, and possibly treble, doesn't change that. Short of signing Messi, you can't change a team's fortune in just one summer. We lost the greatest manager in our history and foolishly followed it up with three years in the wilderness. It's going to take some time to get us back to where we used to be and no amount of money spent can compensate for that - it can only hasten the process.

We signed the best player in Serie A, Ligue 1, a top 5 player in the BL and one of the brightest young CB talents of his generation; all of whom were our first choice targets as well. Getting Higuain and Pjanic from your two closest rivals are good, but it doesn't compare to that.

While Jose's management on field has been a mixed bag so far, his performance in the market has been splendid. Aside from the transfers, he got rid of deadwood like Schneiderlin, Schweiny and Memphis will open up valuable resources, while securing a fruitful loan (which sounds simple, but not a lot of PL clubs have luck with this) for Pereira.

 

[Post Ironic]

Pogba wasn't the best player in Serie a. Get the fuck out of here with that rubbish. He wasn't even the best player on this Juventus team last year. Having the highest potential doesn't make him already the best. As shown by the fact Pjanic has been far better than Pogba this year.

And nice job conveniently ignoring us getting Alves. Our signings have improved us far more than yours did. It's not close. We just did a 91 point, domestic double. And are playing in the CL final. You finished 6th in the league and won a shit Europa League drawing minnows the whole way.

Pjanic > Pogba this year
Higuain > Zlatan this year and I don't even like Higgy
Alves has been 10x the player Mikhi has been this year
Benatia is easily as good as Bailly.



What a bunch of nonsense you just spewed. Vastly better mercato. United fans and premfaces really do have a monopoly on posting delusional rubbish. Dropping even further down the league table really shows your superior mercato

 

[ADP1897]

Yeah, best player in Serie A last season was Higuain, hos number alone should already tell you something.

And Pogba wasn't even our best player last season, he's can't take any responsibility when Claudio and Sami injured.

Ligue 1 best player, who already on his downhill. Best BL performer i give you that. But if all of those 3 wasn't Raiola client, they're probably wont go near to MU, except Pogba.

And talk about deadwood, the player you listed was a class, maybe MU should try to build with player they have, rather than player they should have.

Conte won it at 1st season on struggling Chelsea ffs...
And bookies, alot of EPL fans & pundit bet either Manchester City/MU would win EPL.

So agree to disagree, you simply have good mercato, whilst we have better, we got top player and weaken our direct rival. And this season result doesn't do justice to earlier hype around MU.

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[Zacheryah]

Wat?

How is it not Mourinho's fault? He's at the richest club in the world, they broke the transfer world record, got a top 5 striker in the world for free, got Bundesliga player of the year Mikhitaryan, and Bailly who they all seem to think is the best CB in the EPL.

This isn't Italy where the Sporting director goes and buys players and the coach has to figure out how to use them. Mourinho gets to choose his own targets. He chose to buy those players and spend a ridiculous fee on Pogba when they could have brought in 2-3 players for that fee to strengthen more areas that needed work. He chose to sit still in January when they were still easily in contention for 2nd place.

It is his fault he took 9 months to figure out how to get Pogba to play well. It is his fault he never figured out how to use the Armenian. It is his fault for misusing Martial so badly that he stunk to high heaven. It is his fault for becoming too dependent on Zlatan and not rotating enough. And it is his fault they finished 6th. Just like it was his fault for the epic collapse of Chelsea last year,

Cant really argue at this


Max basically had like "hey, here are 5 new players, but we took a keyplayer, make it work"

 

[United#7]

Pogba wasn't the best player in Serie a. Get the $#@! out of here with that rubbish. He wasn't even the best player on this Juventus team last year. Having the highest potential doesn't make him already the best. As shown by the fact Pjanic has been far better than Pogba this year.

You mean to tell me the one guy that United, Barca, Madrid and PSG were after wasn't the best player on Juve last year? He may have had a better seasons in 13/14 and 14/15, but that doesn't mean he was gash last year. Get your head out of your ass and stop being so butthurt about Pogba leaving. I'm sure you're one of those who shat on Higuain while he was playing for Napoli, but now he's a Juventini god.

If Pjanic was soooo good, why did one of the big 4 clubs go after him? Because he isn't. Never has been and never will be.

And nice job conveniently ignoring us getting Alves.

Uhm, I ignored him because you already said Alves isn't comparable to Bailly or vice versa?

You finished 6th in the league and won a $#@! Europa League drawing minnows the whole way.

Yeah, we won the same Europa League Juve couldn't even win. Lmaoooooo don't worry bro, it's just a 'small cup' anyway.

Pjanic > Pogba this year
Higuain > Zlatan this year and I don't even like Higgy
Alves has been 10x the player Mikhi has been this year
Benatia is easily as good as Bailly.

Benatia as good as Bailly proves that you're simply looking at this through black and white tinted glasses. That's really all there is to it.

What a bunch of nonsense you just spewed. Vastly better mercato. United fans and premfaces really do have a monopoly on posting delusional rubbish. Dropping even further down the league table really shows your superior mercato

Ahh yes, supporting one league rather than the other makes your opinions superior. Very good and insightful argument.

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Yeah, best player in Serie A last season was Higuain, hos number alone should already tell you something.

And Pogba wasn't even our best player last season, he's can't take any responsibility when Claudio and Sami injured.

Ligue 1 best player, who already on his downhill. Best BL performer i give you that. But if all of those 3 wasn't Raiola client, they're probably wont go near to MU, except Pogba.

And talk about deadwood, the player you listed was a class, maybe MU should try to build with player they have, rather than player they should have.


Conte won it at 1st season on struggling Chelsea ffs...
And bookies, alot of EPL fans & pundit bet either Manchester City/MU would win EPL.

So agree to disagree, you simply have good mercato, whilst we have better, we got top player and weaken our direct rival. And this season result doesn't do justice to earlier hype around MU.

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Already answered the other guy for most of these points, so just a few notes on the bolded:

Not sure how this is relevant in this day and age. You try to get your targets and use the connections if you have it. Both Juve and United have the resources to do this. Can't see what's wrong with that.

Not sure who you were referring to that I said was deadwood, but (if I understood your post correctly) I disagree as Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Memphis all got lots of chances and were all terrible.

Let's be completely honest that this Chelsea team downed tools, and Conte (a manager I rate, not hating at all) is liable to get the same treatment as well when shit hits the fan. How do you explain going from 1st to 9th to 1st without any major injuries?

There was no hype on United at all. Most were talking about how unbalanced we were, while City was supposed to walk the league. Jose was supposedly washed up, Zlatan was supposedly not PL standard, and our squad was supposedly too small to compete (that I do agree with). All I heard preseason was that United got it all wrong by straying away from the United way.

 

[Post Ironic]

I still shit on Higgy, moron. He's a choker. @igortudor

Now go back to redcafe with your retarded nonsense.

Last season. Dybala and Bonucci were both better than Pogba. And Marchisio was a country mile better before his injury. Pogba actually stepped up around and after the Marchisio injury and played like one of our best players from January to end of season. But before Christmas he wasn't even one of our 5-6 best performers. He was fucking dreadful.

Big 4 clubs. Oh my gosh. They didn't go after Pjanic? Really. How terrible. He must be terrible. I guess that's why he's managed to adapt to a completely new position in a midfield 2 and absolutely boss it on the way to helping Juventus to a domestic double and a CL final. Cool story, bro.

Bailly over Benatia is another retarded opinion. And based on what exactly? Bailly having 1 good season at the 6th place club in England. Benatia was Serie A team of the year before leaving to Roma, and aside from injury problems has always been a top class defender. Bailly's done nothing yet to show he's above Benatia.

about celebrating Europa League like it's some big accomplishment. Yeah. Beating a bunch of minnows is a real accomplishment. United spent 100 mil more than their 5 knockout round opponents combined. Tough competition.

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Nope hype on United. Your own forum was filled with predictions that it was United-City as a two team race for the title.

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Onto ignore with this United moron.

 

[United#7]

Imagine any of Barca and Madrid looking at Pjanic and say... "wow, this guy is what we need". Fact of the matter is no, he's simply not good enough. He's okay but Pogba is a different class.

Marchisio better than Pogba last year talk about butthurt, I thought only City and Inter fans act like this.

Let's actually see Benatia play like a decent CB, much less thrive, in a backline with Luke Shaw and Chris Smalling, AND without a decent DM protecting him up front

Fact of the matter is, we won the EL and you didn't, getting knocked out by a ghastly Benfica team.

 

[Kopanja]

EPL fans

 

[ADP1897]

You mean to tell me the one guy that United, Barca, Madrid and PSG were after wasn't the best player on Juve last year? He may have had a better seasons in 13/14 and 14/15, but that doesn't mean he was gash last year. Get your head out of your ass and stop being so butthurt about Pogba leaving. I'm sure you're one of those who shat on Higuain while he was playing for Napoli, but now he's a Juventini god.

If Pjanic was soooo good, why did one of the big 4 clubs go after him? Because he isn't. Never has been and never will be.



Uhm, I ignored him because you already said Alves isn't comparable to Bailly or vice versa?



Yeah, we won the same Europa League Juve couldn't even win. Lmaoooooo don't worry bro, it's just a 'small cup' anyway.



Benatia as good as Bailly proves that you're simply looking at this through black and white tinted glasses. That's really all there is to it.



Ahh yes, supporting one league rather than the other makes your opinions superior. Very good and insightful argument.

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Already answered the other guy for most of these points, so just a few notes on the bolded:

Not sure how this is relevant in this day and age. You try to get your targets and use the connections if you have it. Both Juve and United have the resources to do this. Can't see what's wrong with that.

Not sure who you were referring to that I said was deadwood, but (if I understood your post correctly) I disagree as Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Memphis all got lots of chances and were all terrible.

Let's be completely honest that this Chelsea team downed tools, and Conte (a manager I rate, not hating at all) is liable to get the same treatment as well when shit hits the fan. How do you explain going from 1st to 9th to 1st without any major injuries?

There was no hype on United at all. Most were talking about how unbalanced we were, while City was supposed to walk the league. Jose was supposedly washed up, Zlatan was supposedly not PL standard, and our squad was supposedly too small to compete (that I do agree with). All I heard preseason was that United got it all wrong by straying away from the United way.

Dude.. i'm the one who defending Pogba leaving. As i said a long time ago, Pogba came because ambition, if he leave becasue of it, i wont be shocked.

Schinderlin, Bastian, and Depay who's all good.at their previous club? Yeah, my point is MU just like Inter, buy talent/good player, and misused them, then blame those player.

And ofc i shout at Higuain, it called rivalry, as if you lot not do the same to RvP or other player you bought, what a hypocryte.

We secure Pjanic even before mercato open, so we give no chances for other team, and you just prove you blabbing without infos.. Bayern also after him, and Real Madrid from year before, they'rr small club compared to MU?

I wont shat on your transfer policy, but you the 1st one started writing without knowing the story behind. Pogba best player lol, Ibra already half done, Mkhi was best BL player, i said that already.

If Conte was/is a liable, then how come Chelsea winning EPl?

Nope hype on United. Your own forum was filled with predictions that it was United-City as a two team race for the title.

This
Read again redcafe & news around your club carefully, then tell us if MU not hyped.
See bookies history if you needed more proof.

Unbelieveavle come and spouting nonsense, pjanic who? Benatia who? I hate comparing player but Baily one of the brightest talent


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[United#7]

Acting like fans of the most watched domestic league in the world is one homogenous group of people, and looking down on them, isn't any better. Give me actual reasons instead of "lol you watch EPL, you must be retarded".

We had four targets. We signed all four targets. 3 world class players and the top CB prospect of his age.

And I'm a fan of both United and Juve (and Roma to be honest). I'm not trying to stir up shit, but if you're really delusional enough to think that Benatia has been better than Bailly, I will call you out for it.

 

[Klovn]

Pogba Serie A's best player voted by Man Utd fans

 

[ADP1897]

Acting like fans of the most watched domestic league in the world is one homogenous group of people, and looking down on them, isn't any better. Give me actual reasons instead of "lol you watch EPL, you must be retarded".

We had four targets. We signed all four targets. 3 world class players and the top CB prospect of his age.

And I'm a fan of both United and Juve (and Roma to be honest). I'm not trying to stir up shit, but if you're really delusional enough to think that Benatia has been better than Bailly, I will call you out for it.

It's retarded to spouting nonsense when you know nothing, isn't that right?
According to EPL fans logic, serie A just defending, so Serie A best defender better than Baily, who achieved noting before. Or is it just too much?

Pogba Serie A's best player voted by Man Utd fans

They know Bonucci after his performance vs Belgium, what do you expect?
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[Xperd]

Acting like fans of the most watched domestic league in the world is one homogenous group of people, and looking down on them, isn't any better. Give me actual reasons instead of "lol you watch EPL, you must be retarded".

We had four targets. We signed all four targets. 3 world class players and the top CB prospect of his age.

And I'm a fan of both United and Juve (and Roma to be honest). I'm not trying to stir up shit, but if you're really delusional enough to think that Benatia has been better than Bailly, I will call you out for it.

Yes Benatia as good as Bailly this year is a stupid comment but you can't find it hard to argue with the rest of his claims.

While you on the other hand are saying Pjanić is 'okay' and Pogba is a 'different class' while the former has had a much superior season to the latter. Before calling out others, I suggest you retrospect on your own claims.

 

[United#7]

Dude.. i'm the one who defending Pogba leaving. As i said a long time ago, Pogba came because ambition, if he leave becasue of it, i wont be shocked.

Fair enough, I misunderstood.

Schinderlin, Bastian, and Depay who's all good.at their previous club? Yeah, my point is MU just like Inter, buy talent/good player, and misused them, then blame those player.

Ehh, not really that simple.

Schneiderlin was good specifically in one role and one role only - a role which he couldn't do at United because we have better options than him. We gave him tons of chances but he never delivered.

Schweinsteiger is a legend, but he's way past it. I was never big on his signing, and there's a very good reason why Bayern let him handpick his next club.

Memphis came to us about 20 pounds overweight. He started well, but never regained form after his first bad string of games. We even experimented with Martial wide + Memphis at 9, just to get him going, but it just didn't work out. Did we give up on him too soon? Maybe, but as of today, his United career has been shit.

And ofc i shout at Higuain, it called rivalry, as if you lot not do the same to RvP or other player you bought, what a hypocryte.

Ehh, I do know United fans who see it that way, but I never really felt affection for RVP the same way as I do Vidic or Keane for example.

We secure Pjanic even before mercato open, so we give no chances for other team, and you just prove you blabbing without infos.. Bayern also after him, and Real Madrid from year before, they'rr small club compared to MU?

I wont shat on your transfer policy, but you the 1st one started writing without knowing the story behind. Pogba best player lol, Ibra already half done, Mkhi was best BL player, i said that already.

Forgive my ignorance then, but was their credible links about Pjanic interesting Bayern/Real? All I know is an RM legend (that I forgot) dropped his name, but not sure if it has ever been confirmed by a credible journo that either RM or Bayern are interested. If so, I will be willing to eat crow, but how in the hell would he even play when you look at how stocked RM and Bayern's midfields are?

If Conte was/is a liable, then how come Chelsea winning EPl?

I don't think you understood what I mean. I said that, should Chelsea hit a rough patch, Conte will get sacked as well. Same thing happened with Jose, Carlo and even the only manager in their history to win the CL for them. Again, I like Conte, but good luck dealing with that locker room.

 

[ADP1897]

Yes Benatia as good as Bailly this year is a stupid comment but you can't find it hard to argue with the rest of his claims.

While you on the other hand are saying Pjanić is 'okay' and Pogba is a 'different class' while the former has had a much superior season to the latter. Before calling out others, I suggest you retrospect on your own claims.

It's normal to overrate your club player, but this on another level

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[United#7]

Yes Benatia as good as Bailly this year is a stupid comment but you can't find it hard to argue with the rest of his claims.

While you on the other hand are saying Pjanić is 'okay' and Pogba is a 'different class' while the former has had a much superior season to the latter. Before calling out others, I suggest you retrospect on your own claims.

Hey... he started it

That said, compare Pogba's last year or even Pogba's FIRST year at Juve against Pjanic and tell me that Pjanic is really an equal or even better. Hell, let's not even get to Pogba's two best years. C'mon man, any rational football fan, even anyone who hates United but can objectively think even for a while, has Pogba ahead of Pjanic.

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It's retarded to spouting nonsense when you know nothing, isn't that right?
According to EPL fans logic, serie A just defending, so Serie A best defender better than Baily, who achieved noting before. Or is it just too much?

They know Bonucci after his performance vs Belgium, what do you expect?
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Yes, continue acting like every single PL fan have the same opinion. Really says a lot more about you than it does for me.

No, stop the victim mentality. Most PL fans acknowledge the Serie A as a good league, we wouldn't lust after your players if we thought otherwise. You ever seen how many United, City and Chelsea fans want Bonnucci for this summer?

 

[ADP1897]

Schneiderlin was good specifically in one role and one role only - a role which he couldn't do at United because we have better options than him. We gave him tons of chances but he never delivered.

Schweinsteiger is a legend, but he's way past it. I was never big on his signing, and there's a very good reason why Bayern let him handpick his next club.

Memphis came to us about 20 pounds overweight. He started well, but never regained form after his first bad string of games. We even experimented with Martial wide + Memphis at 9, just to get him going, but it just didn't work out. Did we give up on him too soon? Maybe, but as of today, his United career has been shit.



Ehh, I do know United fans who see it that way, but I never really felt affection for RVP the same way as I do Vidic or Keane for example.



Forgive my ignorance then, but was their credible links about Pjanic interesting Bayern/Real? All I know is an RM legend (that I forgot) dropped his name, but not sure if it has ever been confirmed by a credible journo that either RM or Bayern are interested. If so, I will be willing to eat crow, but how in the hell would he even play when you look at how stocked RM and Bayern's midfields are?



I don't think you understood what I mean. I said that, should Chelsea hit a rough patch, Conte will get sacked as well. Same thing happened with Jose, Carlo and even the only manager in their history to win the CL for them. Again, I like Conte, but good luck dealing with that locker room.

Pogba also good for one role only, atleast that what i gather from watching Juve, and France. Overweight not an execuse, Tevez and Higuain both overweight, but they did great. I give you that Depay probably have a weak mentality, but not at OM, so the chance it probably MU.

Tiago keep injured at bayern incase you didn't notice..
And i forgot real teams from 2/3 years ago.

Hmm sorry if i misunderstood, but atleast Roman abramovic already shown he's capable of goving patience, would you say Chelsea started season well?

Hey... he started it

That said, compare Pogba's last year or even Pogba's FIRST year at Juve against Pjanic and tell me that Pjanic is really an equal or even better. Hell, let's not even get to Pogba's two best years. C'mon man, any rational football fan, even anyone who hates United but can objectively think even for a while, has Pogba ahead of Pjanic.

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Yes, continue acting like every single PL fan have the same opinion. Really says a lot more about you than it does for me.

No, stop the victim mentality. Most PL fans acknowledge the Serie A as a good league, we wouldn't lust after your players if we thought otherwise. You ever seen how many United, City and Chelsea fans want Bonnucci for this summer?

Pogba great, but he have Pirlo, Vidal, and Marchisio to help him, now compared him to Pjanic. I bet most of us here surprised Pjanic can take his role rightnow, many of us refer him as ballerina, now look at him.

Bro i just return the favor, if many of you think so, then it Juve sucess, bonucci resurgence, benatia.surely wont be a surprise, and you should have known benatia aswell..

No, it's more likely you guys still think it easier to get player from serie A. Redcafe still use wages as the example for easy serie A transfer incase you didn't notice..
And yes i assume you have redcafe account, or atleast know about it.
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[Xperd]

Hey... he started it

That said, compare Pogba's last year or even Pogba's FIRST year at Juve against Pjanic and tell me that Pjanic is really an equal or even better. Hell, let's not even get to Pogba's two best years. C'mon man, any rational football fan, even anyone who hates United but can objectively think even for a while, has Pogba ahead of Pjanic.

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Yes, continue acting like every single PL fan have the same opinion. Really says a lot more about you than it does for me.

No, stop the victim mentality. Most PL fans acknowledge the Serie A as a good league, we wouldn't lust after your players if we thought otherwise. You ever seen how many United, City and Chelsea fans want Bonnucci for this summer?

Eh ? We watch all Juve games. Pogba was a bench player in his first season with us. Pogba had his best season last year and that is only after Marchisio returned from injury to play the anchor role , other than that he was dogshite in the first half of last season much like how he was struggling with United in the first half of the season.

If I have to compare Pogba's last year to Pjanić this year, I would say it's about even. Even Pjanić struggled initially but once he started playing a deeper role, there has been no looking back for him. He is a major influence in our midfield now. But if you have to compare the season Pogba's had with United to Pjanić this year, I don't think it's a contest tbh.