I of course disagree with both of you and really don't think stats tell the whole story, they never do. Amazing job is a bit too far imo, amazing would be the continuation of his last season which was excellent.
Maybe he was hyped up too much and the expectation are too high to achieve right now but then he's gotta start losing some of his weaknesses and be a bigger presence in the pitch. There are games he gets the ball and as he moves forward and you know something good will come out of that and others he lacks the right judgement over and over again. I've made comparisons with Neymar before because just like Pogba he once was in a limbo between becoming what was expected and being just a hyped up kid, then he found the gap and closed it, it's time for Pogba to do the same.
I do agree though he's the only creative force minus Dybala so it's pretty obvious we couldn't afford letting him go without a proper replacement, if it came to that. I of course wouldn't want him to leave because of reasons i've already mentioned unless a deal we couldn't refuse came our way and his replacement was just as good.
He's been actually rested 1 time this entire season. He was on the bench for the 4-0 win against Udinese on January 17...
We tried to rest him for the 2nd leg against Inter in Coppa Italia, but he ended up on the pitch for 35 minutes anyways.
He also had a yellow card suspension for the 2-0 away win against Lazio December 4th. And played 45 minutes against Chievo in September.
Allegri for some silly reason even played him the full 90+ minutes in all of our first three Coppa Italia matches.
So he's basically played everything but 300 minutes in all competitions for us so far this year. Over 3300 minutes of a possible 3600 minutes. All while being by far our most important and relied upon midfielder each match.
He's done an amazing job in my opinion, even if he hasn't been quite as spectacular as hoped for.
Forget about golazos... is about 80% of his shots being of target. Its super weird for someone who used to kick the ball so well in his first 2 seasons. Since he started taking free kicks, his shot has regerssed for some arcane reason.
And yes, i think no one can deny that he has done a lot this season. he has put a lot of work, but like crimsonnian say, stats alone cannot cover the fact that his gameplay is very weird for someone as talented as him. His main problem is that he loses the ball way too much when leading the attack and breaks the play.
If i needed to ask something for him, it would be to fix this. Not even the golazos or the joga bonito... but this.
Name them? Who is better than him?... Compare Pogs with Ney is far unfair. We r waiting Pogba become an attacking force when he's already great defending. So there r two phases he needs to do great and about Ney everyone was waiting he does his stuff in a daily basic but noone ever is expecting that he become even a descent defender so please don't compare straigth a well
We all agree on that. Main problem is he's to balance when he needs to try some magic even when that means he might lose the balls and when he just have to keeping simple and don't lose the fucking ball... Thats what he needs to learn...
About his shoot, IMO it's the same source, he's waiting to do amazing only-pogba-can-do goals so he needs to do the same, Keeping simple... BTW besides Dybala, rest of the team mid-range shoots r quite dissapointment this season so far
Forget about golazos... is about 80% of his shots being of target. Its super weird for someone who used to kick the ball so well in his first 2 seasons. Since he started taking free kicks, his shot has regerssed for some arcane reason.
And yes, i think no one can deny that he has done a lot this season. he has put a lot of work, but like crimsonnian say, stats alone cannot cover the fact that his gameplay is very weird for someone as talented as him. His main problem is that he loses the ball way too much when leading the attack and breaks the play.
If i needed to ask something for him, it would be to fix this. Not even the golazos or the joga bonito... but this.
Everything is going through him now and so you'll find multiple unsuccessful attempts in every game of controlling the ball, delivering the final ball etc...
I dont know how to get the stats but I assume that he has a lot more touches of the ball now than ever before. Previously the midfield functioned as a unit without him and he would inject himself at key moments with a wonderful pass, a wonderful dribble or a great shot. He was not marked as heavily because we was not the main midfield cog and so he had more space to do his mojo.
Now he is a key cog in the middle and the main player in building up attacks and so with this added responsibility his unsuccessful attempts are bound to be much more. I remember many games this season where he would be unsuccessful a few times but then would be the guy who delivers the final ball to Dybala for the goal. Even Ozil tends to do the same thing with multiple failing attempts but in the end he lands one or two penetrating plays that can be converted to goals (Ozil is a more attacking position/role ofcourse without having to defend and has a higher success rate).
So I agree with you that he needs to improve his build up play by taking less time on the ball and playing better final balls. However I would not say he regressed. I think he just got a new responsibility. He was never the main build up man before he was the special magic card added to an already powerful hand. Today he is the hand and so the larger role is exposing qualities that were rarely tested in him before and I think he is doing well especially that its his first season with this large responsibility.
Where I feel he has regressed is the shooting. His shot accuracy seems off, the guy was really good at those and now he looks very wasteful with his shots. He wastes a lot of shots that he used to be able to score. I'd like to see whether the stats confirm that or not.
We all agree on that. Main problem is he's to balance when he needs to try some magic even when that means he might lose the balls and when he just have to keeping simple and don't lose the $#@!ing ball... Thats what he needs to learn...
About his shoot, IMO it's the same source, he's waiting to do amazing only-pogba-can-do goals so he needs to do the same, Keeping simple... BTW besides Dybala, rest of the team mid-range shoots r quite dissapointment this season so far
Yeah, but i cannot judge the rest in the same way i judge dybala and pogba .. They are superior players technically so i judge them harder. Especially Pogba that has 4 season under his belt..3 of them being a starter.
Apart of those 2, the other player i have seen doing decent shots on goal is suprisingly hernanes. if i would pick something from him..are his shots.
Everything is going through him now and so you'll find multiple unsuccessful attempts in every game of controlling the ball, delivering the final ball etc...
I dont know how to get the stats but I assume that he has a lot more touches of the ball now than ever before. Previously the midfield functioned as a unit without him and he would inject himself at key moments with a wonderful pass, a wonderful dribble or a great shot. He was not marked as heavily because we was not the main midfield cog and so he had more space to do his mojo.
Now he is a key cog in the middle and the main player in building up attacks and so with this added responsibility his unsuccessful attempts are bound to be much more. I remember many games this season where he would be unsuccessful a few times but then would be the guy who delivers the final ball to Dybala for the goal. Even Ozil tends to do the same thing with multiple failing attempts but in the end he lands one or two penetrating plays that can be converted to goals (Ozil is a more attacking position/role ofcourse without having to defend and has a higher success rate).
So I agree with you that he needs to improve his build up play by taking less time on the ball and playing better final balls. However I would not say he regressed. I think he just got a new responsibility. He was never the main build up man before he was the special magic card added to an already powerful hand. Today he is the hand and so the larger role is exposing qualities that were rarely tested in him before and I think he is doing well especially that its his first season with this large responsibility.
Where I feel he has regressed is the shooting. His shot accuracy seems off, the guy was really good at those and now he looks very wasteful with his shots. He wastes a lot of shots that he used to be able to score. I'd like to see whether the stats confirm that or not.
Well, yeah. The exposure and responsability are taking a toll on him. But like everyone agrees...in this moments of difficulty he needs to keep it simple and try from time to time to do his things...
problem, right now..he wants to create something awesome in every single play...and thats simply not possible. because of this..he finds himself losing the ball trying to always dribble past 2 guys in front of him..or making 1 extra undeeded movement that takes him to compromised positions against defender.
He NEEDS to find a balance on this.
Pogba is an inventive player. He sees things others simply dont because of his talent... so trying to limit his inventive would be to prevent him to be himself. But he needs to wait the best moments to pounce.
For example... a player like Zidane, who was the go-to-guy in every team after he became a star, was most of the time just delivering simple passes to his closest teammate and chilling in the mid of the field....but when he saw an opportunity.. you could see him transitioning from his passive posture into dribble passing the next 2 guys in front of him and creating havoc in the whole 11 with that move... or doing a killer pass out of nowhere to a striker. Of course, im talking about a 28 years+ Zidane, who had all the experience in the world. But you get the idea.
Thats the balance Pogba needs to find. Thats what i want to see from him. He is not a treq it seems, but he definitely can dictate the play from the back and recover balls for us in the same way. He just needs to chill and keeps thing simple, be careful with possesion.... but inject his offensive play when he feels it is needed for a change of pace in the game.
Right now, he seems be trying to force awesome plays in every opportunity, and he is failing at that obvs. Not even Zidane would be able to do "youtube" plays in every move.
This is where he's definitely regressed. He's having his worst season yet with regards to scoring, all while taking far more shots per game. He's taking about 3.5 shots per game in all competitions, as opposed to never more than 2.5 in previous seasons. And somehow only has 6 goals (3300 minutes) as opposed to 10 goals last season, 9 goals the year before, and 5 goals in only 1700 minutes his first season.
On the other hand, with 8 assists, his passing in and around the box has improved. Which is strange considering how often he chooses to shoot when he has players open to pass to.
I think his shot regression is in part poor accuracy but the even greater reason for it is terrible decision making about when to take shots. He's taking a large number of shots this year that are just stupid to attempt.
This is where he's definitely regressed. He's having his worst season yet with regards to scoring, all while taking far more shots per game. He's taking about 3.5 shots per game in all competitions, as opposed to never more than 2.5 in previous seasons. And somehow only has 6 goals (3300 minutes) as opposed to 10 goals last season, 9 goals the year before, and 5 goals in only 1700 minutes his first season.
On the other hand, with 8 assists, his passing in and around the box has improved. Which is strange considering how often he chooses to shoot when he has players open to pass to.
I think his shot regression is in part poor accuracy but the even greater reason for it is terrible decision making about when to take shots. He's taking a large number of shots this year that are just stupid to attempt.
I can't find anything that shows overall touches, but....
He's having 3 successful dribbles per match as opposed to about 2.6 last year in all comps. He's dispossessed 2.3 times per game this year as opposed to 2.5 times per game last year.
He's on 48 passes per game this year at 83%, as opposed to 45 passes per game last year on 83.5%, so slightly more involved there.
So it appears he's only a bit more on the ball this year aside from shooting far more, and his percentages have stayed about the same with passing, and improved with dribbling.
I can't find anything that shows overall touches, but....
He's having 3 successful dribbles per match as opposed to about 2.6 last year in all comps. He's dispossessed 2.3 times per game this year as opposed to 2.5 times per game last year.
He's on 48 passes per game this year at 83%, as opposed to 45 passes per game last year on 83.5%, so slightly more involved there.
So it appears he's only a bit more on the ball this year aside from shooting far more, and his percentages have stayed about the same with passing, and improved with dribbling.
Deserves the bench badly. He has been piss poor this season. I am dissapointed in him. True talents and great players tend to shine as time goes on, while Pogba has done the complete oposite. He is just bad. Out of 10 times he gets it right 2 times this season while the other 8 he gets dispossed or just simply fucks up.
I don't disagree with any of that really, yet the Inter game has shown why he is still hands down one of our most important players. When he came on, our entire approach changed drastically, and we finally resembled a real team with an idea of what to do with the ball, mostly because we had Pogba to run our plays through.
Deserves the bench badly. He has been piss poor this season. I am dissapointed in him. True talents and great players tend to shine as time goes on, while Pogba has done the complete oposite. He is just bad. Out of 10 times he gets it right 2 times this season while the other 8 he gets dispossed or just simply fucks up.
Take Pogba away from our midfield and we lose most of our creativity, not to say we'd look mediocre in the middle and wouldn't be able to hold the ball that much (see Inter's away game). And who'd you replace him with? Sturaro? Asamoah? None of them could offer a fraction of what he can, on a bad day. We need technical players in the middle and they need to be capable to take on their markers, to cope well under pressure, to be self-reliant. I don't think we have many of these and benching one of them (only one) probably isn't a good idea.
Take Pogba away from our midfield and we lose most of our creativity, not to say we'd look mediocre in the middle and wouldn't be able to hold the ball that much (see Inter's away game). And who'd you replace him with? Sturaro? Asamoah? None of them could offer a fraction of what he can, on a bad day. We need technical players in the middle and they need to be capable to take on their markers, to cope well under pressure, to be self-reliant. I don't think we have many of these and benching one of them (only one) probably isn't a good idea.
Without Pogba our midfield is simply mediocre. It wouldn't be the case last year as we still had Vidal and Pirlo. Right now we have two midfielders that stand out: Pogba and Marchisio. The rest are behind, even Khedira who often is injured or stop running after an hour (he's still important but a bit too often unavailable).
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