Our midfield (4 Viewers)

[Hozz12]

When did ZZ take Juve to some success?
It was all about ADP back then, ZZ had a good first season at Juve. An abysmal second when he even got to face the bench as Fabio Pecchia got picked ahead of him. First when Carlo took over he grew in Juve and as you know Carlo= no success in Juve.
ZZ went out with promises about a CL trophy with Juve, and what did he do? Got himself sent off for headbutting a player.
I for one never felt like it was the same ZZ as for France when he was playing at Juventus.
And when it comes to ZZ vs Nedved you can't honestly think that ZZ is more effective he maybe more influential but not more effective. Even Agnelli our own president went out in public and criticized him for this. As an example Lazio-Juventus 4-1 two years ago Nedved scores two goals and puts up Crespo for the other two. That's 4p in a game he wasn't outstanding in his play but he practically decided the game.
ZZ is a fantastic footballer don't get me wrong and think that I'm a ZZ hater but I craved more from him when he was at Juve.

 

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[denco]

++ [ originally posted by Hozz12 ] ++

When did ZZ take Juve to some success?

Hello we did win 2 scudettos with him there and saying it was all about ADP is very inappropiate

ZZ had a good first season at Juve. An abysmal second when he even got to face the bench as Fabio Pecchia got picked ahead of him.

Please can you tell me the games in which Pecchia was picked ahead of Zz and yes Dp was to have a gr8 season but Zz had a very good season as well s he destroyed Dinamo Kiev in Kiev in which d 3 assists against them
.

ZZ went out with promises about a CL trophy with Juve, and what did he do? Got himself sent off for headbutting a player.
I for one never felt like it was the same ZZ as for France when he was playing at Juventus.

Let go of that headbutt will ya, it happens in football he was wound up and he snapped, France play a more attacking kinda football to what Juve does and its not his fault that it happened that way.

And when it comes to ZZ vs Nedved you can't honestly think that ZZ is more effective he maybe more influential but not more effective. Even Agnelli our own president went out in public and criticized him for this. As an example Lazio-Juventus 4-1 two years ago Nedved scores two goals and puts up Crespo for the other two. That's 4p in a game he wasn't outstanding in his play but he practically decided the game

.Yes i guess because Agnelli says it, it must be true then, i am not sure how you can take one match and use that as a basis for how effective the 2 players are
France with Zz won the wc and the ec

Czech rep have won nothing with Nedved

Juve with Zz won the league 2ce, intercontinental cup, and was voted the best player in the serieA in his last season thre

Nedved has won the league with Lazio and Juve
ZZ is a fantastic footballer don't get me wrong and think that I'm a ZZ hater but I craved more from him when he was at Juve.

What did you crave that suddenly Nedved in one season has given to you

I don't know i must be one of the few ppl who feel Nedved unbalances our team and thats why we come up short against really top teams, but he might be better but as good or as effective as Zz , he will have to perform extremely well to do so

 

[Tom]

I think that when we bought nedved, he was not a replacement for ZZ. In fact, he was bought as a left midfielder, a position where he was previously very good, scoring and assisting in many games for lazio.

Unfortunately, Nedved didn't fit in, at first, with his new teammates, and so the formation was changed to accomodate him. At the time, I wasn't particularly happy with this, as it meant him basically playing the Zidane role, something that he is certainly not as good at. Saying he is even close to Zidane in this role is ludicrous. Its just not true, Zidane is the best in this role, probably in the world, and this is certainly not true of nedved.

What I would like to see now is nedved, now he is settled and performing well, moved back to the left/centre position, and once Zambrotta comes back to fill the right/centre position, Mauro camoranesi could fill the attacking midfield spot, with Davids as the holding player, the heartbeat of the side.

Under this formation, I believe the players strengths are played to, and this should result in our midfield as a whole becoming more competitive, and better functioning as a unit. Then, instead of us relying solely on our front players for goals, maybe we can see a 10 goal season for nedved, and more too from Zambo and camoranesi. I'm sure that if Davids plays enough games, he can contribute as well.

 

[BigIzz]

You are right Tom. I think our managment recgonized the problem of our squad having Zidane (ie, having a great player in the middle we depended on) and they didn't want to replace him with a similar player. As much as I'd like it if Nedved would do this on the left, he didn't do very well there at the start of last season so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Ian]

++ [ originally posted by BigIzz ] ++
You are right Tom. I think our managment recgonized the problem of our squad having Zidane (ie, having a great player in the middle we depended on) and they didn't want to replace him with a similar player. As much as I'd like it if Nedved would do this on the left, he didn't do very well there at the start of last season so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Truly, but don't we really depend upon Nedved now? I say that we do.

 

[Hozz12]

Denco did you see the game tonight?
Nedved scored one and assisted one.
I'm not saying that Nedved is as good as ZZ on that role but he's more effective, I totally agree on the part that he may unbalance our team. I think that the problem is that the management thinks that Nedved + DP = enough creativity. We are in desperate need of a regista, a player that can control our play from the back. Tudor has excellent passing abilities but I personally want him to play as a centreback so he could show how superior he is. Tacchinardi just isn't good enough we need a player like Cambiasso at Real or Pirlo at Milan, imo Veron would be the perfect player. Although he hasn't really performed what you can demand from a player of his caliber in Man U I strongly believe that he could have a lot to add to this Juventus team. Veron can easily adapt to our direct play as well he often plays with one touch and I believe that his time in EPL has helped in terms of better workrate and aggresitivity, + he and Nedved knows each other as they played in Lazio together.
And with Veron in our team we would have more options as the 442 formation would fit as well, Zambro and Neddie on the wings and Davids, Veron central.

Ps. I haven't got anything against ZZ but I never saw the ZZ for France at Juve that's it.

 

[denco]

Well i will answer that with you going to video archives and bring out Juve4 Ajax 1 and you will see what Zz is all about

 

[Juventuz_com]

Interesting dicussion..
But i have to say that i agree with denco and montero, i really disagree w/ the opinion that neddy is better zz at PM role. However i sa that neddy is a better winger thatn zz, coz he is faster and more persevering player than zz.(Just look at DP's goal last night!! :thumb: neddy)
So i would say that each has some advantages of their own and i'd love to see them playing 2gether
About the statistics, i also think it's unfair to compare neddy season at juve with ZZ's at real. Real has so many sources of creativity and players that can crosses the ball well (carlos,figo, raul, solari, and even macca) while juve?? Nedved, DP, and mmmh.. did i mention nedved?
Beside, what ZZ does wasn't all about assisting!! He's a PM, he created most of the attacking move!! So it didn't matter if eventually zambo, tachi, davids or pessoto who created the assist as long as they did it. He created a move for zambo and pesotto to cross the ball, or for tachi and davids to through the ball forward!! That's why those guys played a lot better when ZZ's around!!
U also have 2 remember that statistics tells us that ZZ won best foreigner player award in his first season w/ juve (back then there were only italian and foreigner award, right? There's no best player in overall award) and league's best award in his last season here, while neddy??

And as for denco, i'll be waiting for that videos!!

 

[Hozz12]

For the last time I never said that Neddie is better than ZZ on the PM role. I just stated that he's more effective, but that doesn't make him a better player than ZZ.
About the Ajax game to bad that ADP didn't play that game then it would have probably been 6-1 ZZ was terrific at his first season with Juventus. But I only said that he didn't play so well at his second season.

 

[denco]

Imo if a player is more effective than another then he is better, or how else do u want to put it

Nedved is not more effective than Zz , he just scores more goals, his passes are not more incisive or decisive, his skills are nowhere near Zz, his vision is not in the same league as Zz

I don't know why you keep saying Zz had a bad second season, he played well, we won the league and had a better season than Nedved did at Lazio that same season, he was just upstaged by Dp, but then again only Ronaldo at his very best could live with Dp that season and you still have not named the big games where Pecchia was playing and Zz was benched

 

[Dj Juve]

i think nowadays ZZ is overated.....he's terrific, but a tad overated...

 

[kw_hamster]

With what he's achieved, it's no wonder he's overrated. But bear in mind that he did not fit in well to the Serie A's tactical game, so he was unable to shine for Juve as well as he did for France. Nedved on the other hand has adapted very well, which makes him a more effective player. Therefore, effectiveness does not necessarily mean one player is better than another. It depends on the environment and the team.

 

[paulo]

I think ZZ is a better than Nedved, he is undoubtedly the best playmaker in the world and his skills are in a higher class than Nedved's. Maybe he didn't always fully show that while playing for Juve, but he still was better than Nedved. Also today.

About the adaptability of ZZ and Nedved, if Nedved adapted faster to Juve than ZZ, I can't see anything wrong with that. Zizou came to Serie A from Division 1, while Nedved was in Serie A for many years before he joined Juve.

 

[Febrina]

But Nedved never play as trequartista, He's a left winger in Lazio while ZZ did it all the time, that's his job

 

[paulo]

Nedved never played as a trequartista(also because Lazio had Veron), but for the Czech national team and for Juve he regularly plays in that position(in wihich he's better than on the left wing). So you can call him a trequrtista.

 

[Desmond]

but even veron didn't play as the trequartista in lazio,did he?fiore would be a better choice.

 

[denco]

Okay under Ancellotti, Zz was the go to guy, if Tacchi had the ball, his first thot is where is Zz, if Zambo had the ball , his first thot was where is Zz, same for Davids, now we did not win the league, but we ammased more points than last season

When we won the league with Zz, Hozz is telling me its because of Dp, giving no credit to Zz

Last season we won the league again and you are trying to give most of the credit to Nedved, like the fact that Dp was back to something of his old self with goals and assists, Trez's goals had not a whole lot to do with it

Whether better or effectiveness, Zz is superior to Nedved, while Zz carried all our creativity on his shoulders, with Dp gone walkabout with loss of form an injury.

Nedved was just a cog in a machine, which relied more on the breakdown of Inter's machine to triumph than its own effectiveness

 

[Tom]

All this comparing ZZ and Nedved is fruitless really. As a Playmaker, or whatever the Italian name for this is, ZZ is far better, face the facts. This is not so say nedved is at all bad there, because he is good, but Zidane is a class above..thats why he cost 50 million, and nedved only 25. World player of the year twice...this has gotta mean something

Anyway, comparing them IMO is pointless since each has a different best position..ie left wing for ned, attacking mid for ZZ

Its like comparing Inzaghi with Zambrotta...Davids with Shevchenko

 

[kw_hamster]

ZZ has brilliant ball distribution which makes him the perfect playmaker.. Nedved is one who has a very direct approach which is to just attack attack attack..

 

[Tom]

all out attack..lovely!