Oh Sh*t, Here We Go (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Bjerknes
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. Arabs are not bad though. I meant, by this that they are not Arabs, they are Algerian. And, are you telling me that there was more Arab immigrants than the Berbers themselves who lived there for thousand of years? Majority of the so-called Arab have some Berbers roots, if not almost all of them (not denying they and I have Arab roots too). They are not Arab anymore, they are Algerian. The Majority in Algeria is Arabophone (Even if it's not really Arabic, and although it is based on that language), and they based the society on Arabic language because of Islam.
There is a big identity problem going on in Algeria, and unconsciously a lot of ''Arab'' Algerians understood that they have not a lot of thing in common with the people that call themselves Arab, because of the Algeria Vs. Egypt saga. The French and our second president, Ben Balla (who said that we were Arab only to have the back-up of the Arab countries [Yet again, political reason] ; He made a lot of mess in the country) contributed to make Algerians confused about their culture. Ben Balla was also the one who was a big admirer of Nasser (Egyptian), asked him to help him with education in our country, because the majority of French professors were gone. Conclusion, Nasser being intelligent and wanting to keep educated people in his country, sent a bunch of thugs (some of them were even in prison) called the Muslim Brothers. They were uneducated, violent for nothing (there was never in the French era that sort of professor, even if they were extremely severe), not caring about Algerians who they considered less ''Arab'' than there countryman (and guess what, that's the only thing in which they were right). This is one of a lot of thing where Egypt screwed us. I don't held Egyptian people responsible of that though.
Yes, there was no geographic borders; but there was tribe who all of them had there kingdom with a ''dey'' (Like a chief of the tribe) at their helm. Some tribes were not friendly with others, but when there was an invader, like the Romans, they all united against the menace.
When I said the Arabs were there for colonizing, I didn't mean that. Sorry for my poor English, some time I just don't say what I mean because this is not my mother-tongue, obviously. (It's French..) Anyway, I meant that they immigrated and wanted to promote Islam. Berbers sure accepted Islam. But they didn't really live ''side by side'' at first, atleast not all of them, there was a lot of crossbreeding. I heard a lot of things about it. Now, can we call them Arab? No, I don't think so. They and I only are Algerian.
Not related, to you're post:
As a matter of fact, did you know that there is a good number of ''Arab'' Algerian across the country, that consider Ribéry as an Arab, only because he's Muslim and he's married to an Algerian. He's a fucking French. Some people are just deluded when it comes to Arabicness.
What is a damn Arab nowadays (the concept)? This term exist only for political reason, and even if there's people believing in that thing. However, everyone is entitled to his opinion, I guess.
And, if Arabs thinks we would have been beaten by the French without their help, IT'S FUCKING RIDICULOUS. We gave money to Egypt, our supposed ally, to provide us weapon and supply and they kept the money. Yet again, what a great act by the Arab leaders. The only people who helped us were the Tunsi (Tunisians) and the Moroccans not the Arabs. Arabs never truly cared about us and we should not care about them. I don’t care about them.
EDIT: Oh, I'm hoping all of you won't get lost with my syntax, if somehow you read that huuuge post.
What you fail to understand is there is no real Arab race anymore, most of us are a mix of two or more ethnic races. Naturally a lot of cross breeding has occurred over the past centuries. Throughout history there have been peoples that have been "arabicized" (i know its probably not a word), its difficult to trace who the real Arabs are and who aren't, what we know for sure is, there is virtually no more pure Arab race.
The term "Arab" is used to refer to a people whose primary language is Arabic, whose traditions, customs, culture etc are Arabic. There are ethnic groups in the Arab world whose primary language is not Arabic. Berbers, Kurds, Touareg(though they are Berber too) etc.
Oh and Ben Balla, Boumediene these guys were Arabs. Thats a fact, you can easily know that by their names. Boumediene especially was someone who was a real believer in Algeria's Arab identity.
Algerians are Arabs.
Wifak Staif are awesome, they're much respected here in Jordan at least by the Wehdat fans that is
Wifak Staif are awesome, they're much respected here in Jordan at least by the Wehdat fans that is
Not all of them JBF. Algeria has a considerable percentage of Berbers in their population. Almost 30% of the Algerian population identify themselves as Berbers and speak the Amazighi language.
In some countries like my country Libya, they are trying to systematically erase the culture, language, customs of the Berbers. Berbers in Libya are forbidden to speak their language, they are not allowed to name their kids Amazighi names, they are not allowed to learn Amazighi language in schools. They are not recognized as a different group, even though historically they are the original inhabitants of Libya. Our president keeps saying there is no such thing as Berbers, these guys are Arabs. IMO that is wrong, they are a different people, who have their own language, culture, history, customs, traditions, norms etc. We shouldn't try to erase that.
I've never said we should, but them being a minority in a country that is considered by both its citizens and observers as an Arab one certainly doesn't give them the right to go out saying Algerians aint Arabic as this ignorant shamefully did. And you would see that I've no problem with Amazigh what so ever on the contrary I respect them and I've said in a previous post here that they should have the full rights of those of any citizen in his/her respective country. But truth to be said, I've a problem accepting their unwillingness to be called an arab despite them living in an arab country, having arab relatives and having almost the same culture of that the Arabs have. It's almost like the case of Sharkas and Chichan here but I've never heard from any of those that they don't consider themselves arabs while still holding firmly on their Baltic origins.
I am guessing they can't really express themselves freely in Jordan, thats why they never say that they're not Arabs, like the Berber in Libya. If you lived in Libya and weren't familiar with their situation, you'd think they're happy, but thats only because Gadaffi's oppressive regime does not allow them one bit of freedom to express themselves.
So what if Arabs were a majority, that doesn't mean we have to consider other minority groups Arabs too, especially if they don't see themselves as Arabs. They should have their schools, their language should be recognized as one of Libya's official languages, because lets be honest here, they are the original inhabitants of the land. Instead they are being marginalized, alienated and oppressed like every other minority in the Arab World.
Nobody's going to hear about them, nobody's going to know what they really think, nobody is going to know if they really do consider themselves Arabs or not. Because they are censored, silenced and oppressed.
So what if Arabs were a majority, that doesn't mean we have to consider other minority groups Arabs too, especially if they don't see themselves as Arabs. They should have their schools, their language should be recognized as one of Libya's official languages, because lets be honest here, they are the original inhabitants of the land. Instead they are being marginalized, alienated and oppressed like every other minority in the Arab World.
Nobody's going to hear about them, nobody's going to know what they really think, nobody is going to know if they really do consider themselves Arabs or not. Because they are censored, silenced and oppressed.
I've never said we should consider them as arabs but rather that they have no right what so ever to call the whole damn country non-arab one while they're the minority.
Oh and fred, Charkas are known to have the most sensitive position in both the army and the government, while the king's palace is traditionaly signed to the Charkas guards to protect and maintain. So no they're not opressed but rather know that as you've said before, there's no ethnic group called arab but rather a culture that they're part of and consider themselves as one without denying their past.
Oh and fred, Charkas are known to have the most sensitive position in both the army and the government, while the king's palace is traditionaly signed to the Charkas guards to protect and maintain. So no they're not opressed but rather know that as you've said before, there's no ethnic group called arab but rather a culture that they're part of and consider themselves as one without denying their past.
My point is exactly that; the term ''Arab'' is used wrongly. The Algerians are only Algerians and are obviously very different from the middle-easterner, apart from the use of the language. Each country has a different history and goes trough different experiences; these things forges different people. The one you call ''Arab'' in my country are much much nearer to the Berber (and in fact they share the same mentality, really) than the people that lives in the middle-east. Some people in the country have some Arab ancestors, but it's if we go back a thousand of years. Anyway, that is only common sense to notice the mentality thing, if you do know Algerians from Algeria you'd know that. Saying otherwise is really foolish.
The term ''Arab'' is fake/wrongly used in my opinion. If the people that speaks Arabic seems to have the same culture, it's because the majority of Arabs have the same religion and it misleads a lot of people. I'd give you a concrete example (I don't base my argument solely on that fact- that would be foolish), I know quite a few Christians Lebanese (which you could consider Arabs) due to the place I live and one of them is even one of my best mate. Obviously, other than the language used, we share nothing in common (And even the language spoken, the majority of them and the Arabs in general don't understand Algerian's dialect [And I'm talking about the real language used everyday by people, not that ''thing'', you hear everyday in the Algerian news. This is REALLY NOT the same]). It's normal. They are Lebanese, even though they speak Arabic and you could call them ''Arab'' too, because some of them considers themselves so (still talking about the one I know). What do we really share in common? It is the same with Algerian Jews/Christians. They have NOT one thing in common with the middle-easterner, but obviously have a lot with the Algerian Muslims.
Our country have its own culture, mentality, habit, customs. Algerian way. You have to make a difference between what the religion brought and the rest, even if religion is indeed an important part of the country.
They were Algerians, not Arabs, and don't make the mistake to mix politics with all that.
About the name: In French Canada, people have French names, but they are Québecois and Canadian; not French. Names hardly means something.
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EDIT: I feel this debate is pointless, at the very least. It could go on and on and I don't think it will have any conclusions. We obviously don't think the same. I think that the term Arab is mentioned blindly and doesn't represent much. You think otherwise. If you don't come up with something new, I guess we could stop it there.
The term ''Arab'' is fake/wrongly used in my opinion. If the people that speaks Arabic seems to have the same culture, it's because the majority of Arabs have the same religion and it misleads a lot of people. I'd give you a concrete example (I don't base my argument solely on that fact- that would be foolish), I know quite a few Christians Lebanese (which you could consider Arabs) due to the place I live and one of them is even one of my best mate. Obviously, other than the language used, we share nothing in common (And even the language spoken, the majority of them and the Arabs in general don't understand Algerian's dialect [And I'm talking about the real language used everyday by people, not that ''thing'', you hear everyday in the Algerian news. This is REALLY NOT the same]). It's normal. They are Lebanese, even though they speak Arabic and you could call them ''Arab'' too, because some of them considers themselves so (still talking about the one I know). What do we really share in common? It is the same with Algerian Jews/Christians. They have NOT one thing in common with the middle-easterner, but obviously have a lot with the Algerian Muslims.
Our country have its own culture, mentality, habit, customs. Algerian way. You have to make a difference between what the religion brought and the rest, even if religion is indeed an important part of the country.
They were Algerians, not Arabs, and don't make the mistake to mix politics with all that.
About the name: In French Canada, people have French names, but they are Québecois and Canadian; not French. Names hardly means something.
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EDIT: I feel this debate is pointless, at the very least. It could go on and on and I don't think it will have any conclusions. We obviously don't think the same. I think that the term Arab is mentioned blindly and doesn't represent much. You think otherwise. If you don't come up with something new, I guess we could stop it there.
Naggar, I read back that post, and I wanted to say I didn't say exactly what I wanted to say and I'm sorry for not having. I was mainly talking about the hatred, not really about the incidents even if said otherwise (I didn't really revised my post)... The hatred has really became overly excessive in both countries, and it's both sides fault if it attains such high level (maybe even more because of us, Algerians). It never should have been like that. Before the incidents, we could have talked about dislike between the two countries, because of the past. I'm not saying it was good, but it's really not the same. My ideas about the causes are a bit different, but it doesn't matter. The two sides have equally done bad things, and, what happened happened.
Whose battles did you fight?
Or are you one of those that consider the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions liberating the Iraqi's and Afghans respectively?
US has done nothing but wreak havoc in the world, and especially in the Middle East.
Or are you one of those that consider the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions liberating the Iraqi's and Afghans respectively?
US has done nothing but wreak havoc in the world, and especially in the Middle East.
