OFFICIAL: Bundesliga better than Serie A (1 Viewer)

[Paid-off-Ref]

Yes, that's the main difference. If you count the coefficient points Italians and Germans got in CL, then you will see this:

2006/2007 - Italy 14.125 --- Germany 11.000
2007/2008 - Italy 13.375 --- Germany 9.000
2008/2009 - Italy 12.500 --- Germany 10.000
2009/2010 - Italy 19.500 --- Germany 17.833
2010/2011 - Italy 12.000 --- Germany 16.333

Total: Italy 71.500 --- Germany 64.166

I'm counting the last 5 seasons because UEFA does the same and only the last 5 count for the final coefficient points.
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With the exception of this current season, where things can still change (even though it's more likely to change in Germany's favor), the Italian teams in CL are better than their German counterparts in every season. But the difference in EL is huge and that gives the Germans an edge, a big one.

Right now Germany has 8.122 points more in the coefficient standings and that's quite a big difference (roughly said, around 25 match wins) which will most probably only grow bigger till the end of the season. Since points from season 2006/07 won't count next year, then the current 8.122 pts difference will grow to 10.550 pts difference.

As said many times, by me especially, in seasons 2012/2013, 2013/2014 and 2014/2015, Germany will surely have 4 teams in CL while Italy will have 3. Now, the same trend could go on and on unless the Italian teams start doing better in Europe starting from next year.

And this is because Italy had four teams in the competition while Germany had three?
How about performance per team. Total number of points in the CL divided by the number of teams from each country. So for example for last season (2009-2010).

Italy=19500/4=4875 points per team
Germany=17833/3=5944 points per team

 

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[JCK]

You make a point, Germany with less teams in Europe are still owning the Italian teams.

 

[Alen]

And this is because Italy had four teams in the competition while Germany had three?
How about performance per team. Total number of points in the CL divided by the number of teams from each country. So for example for last season (2009-2010).

Italy=19500/4=4875 points per team
Germany=17833/3=5944 points per team

No man, the coefficient is actually the average of what all the teams from that particular country won, not the total number of points they won.
So it makes no difference if the country has 5,4,3,2 or 1 team.

If Italy has 12.000 pts it means that the Italian teams averaged 12 pts (for example, if Juve win 18, Inter 17, Milan 16, Napoli 12, Roma 8, Lazio 7 and Palermo 6 points, then the average points will be 84/7= 12.000 points)

Last year Italy had 19.500 on average. It wasn't the total of all 4 teams in CL, so you can't count it the way you did it.

 

[RAMI-N]

So, Italy will have 3 teams in CL for at least 3 years...
Not good.

 

[Paid-off-Ref]

No man, the coefficient is actually the average of what all the teams from that particular country won, not the total number of points they won.
So it makes no difference if the country has 5,4,3,2 or 1 team.

If Italy has 12.000 pts it means that the Italian teams averaged 12 pts (for example, if Juve win 18, Inter 17, Milan 16, Napoli 12, Roma 8, Lazio 7 and Palermo 6 points, then the average points will be 84/7= 12.000 points)

Last year Italy had 19.500 on average. It wasn't the total of all 4 teams in CL, so you can't count it the way you did it.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Alltagsheld]

In one week there will be no Italian team left in the European competitions.

 

[JuveJay]

Location: Magdeburg, Germany

 

[Alltagsheld]

I don't want to enter the argument here, just felt like stating the facts.

 

[Alen]

To summarize everything that's been said, here's a more detailed list how the Italian and German clubs did in Europe in the last 5 years (the years that count for the final coefficient). In the first list are the average points per season and total of the Italian and German clubs in CL.
You can notice that apart from this current season, the Italians were better in every other season and they are better overall these 5 years:

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
2006/2007 - Italy 14.125 --- Germany 11.000
2007/2008 - Italy 13.375 --- Germany 9.000
2008/2009 - Italy 12.500 --- Germany 10.000
2009/2010 - Italy 19.500 --- Germany 17.833
2010/2011 - Italy 12.250 --- Germany 17.333

Total: Italy 71.750 --- Germany 65.166
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This second list is for UEFA Cup (Europa League). Like in CL, but with different roles now, the Italians were better only in one season (2006/07) and after that the Germans are MUCH better and they win almost twice more points than the Italians:

UEFA Cup:
2006/2007 - Italy 6.750 --- Germany 6.700
2007/2008 - Italy 7.125 --- Germany 13.500
2008/2009 - Italy 8.200 --- Germany 10.214
2009/2010 - Italy 7.250 --- Germany 13.500
2010/2011 - Italy 7.250 --- Germany 12.333

Total: Italy 36.575 --- Germany 56.247
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This final list is the average they got in all competitions per season. Just like in UEFA Cup, the Italians did better only once, while in the last 4 seasons the Germans are regularly doing better:

TOTAL
2006/2007 - Italy 11.928 --- Germany 9.500
2007/2008 - Italy 10.250 --- Germany 13.500
2008/2009 - Italy 11.375 --- Germany 12.687
2009/2010 - Italy 15.428 --- Germany 18.083
2010/2011 - Italy 11.142 --- Germany 14.833

Total: Italy 60.123 --- Germany 68.603
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The trickiest part is that from next year season 2006/07 won't count anymore and that's rather bad for the Italians because that's the only season in the last 5 where they did better.
To make it even worse, when season 2006/07 will stop counting this June, then on the final standings Germany will be 2nd, Spain will be 3rd and it's gonna be Spain that Italy will need to overtake for the 3rd place in UEFA (and 4 CL places). So all those Germany vs Italy calculations we were doing so far won't be important anymore, and it's gonna be Spain vs Italy.

The conclusion is easy and everyone here came to it long time ago. The results of the Italian clubs in CL weren't bad, but their performances in UEFA Cup were way too bad and it costs now. The Italians will have to improve in Champions League (this season is really bad so far) but the biggest improvement must come in Europa League which they will have to take very seriously if they want to regain the 4th CL spot. Naturally, for the improvement to come they don't only need to change the mentality and start looking at every competition as an important one, but other things too will have to be changed. We all know what those other things are (stadiums etc) so lets not repeat them.

Close thread

 

[RAMI-N]

top post

Italy vs Spain?

 

[JuveJay]

I don't want to enter the argument here, just felt like stating the facts.

Just joking mate

 

[Nedvěd]

I have a question, if UEFA Cup counts in the European coefficient for the UCL, how the hell the English have 4 teams in the CL?
English teams are shit in the EL/UEFA Cup.

Italy will never regain it's 4th spot unless team start taking the EL more seriously, and with it being Serie A versus La Liga I can't see the Italians topping the Spanish in EL.

 

[Alen]

I have a question, if UEFA Cup counts in the European coefficient for the UCL, how the hell the English have 4 teams in the CL?
English teams are shit in the EL/UEFA Cup.

Italy will never regain it's 4th spot unless team start taking the EL more seriously, and with it being Serie A versus La Liga I can't see the Italians topping the Spanish in EL.

The English are doing that good in CL that they can not win a single match in EL and still gain enough points to have 4 CL spots
And I'm only half-joking here because the English dominance in the CL is too big (check post #93) and it guarantees them safety in UEFA top 3.

I'll make a list for the points countries get in UEFA Cup. I think England will be in top 5 there too.
Give me some minutes

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

UEFA co-efficients are a fucking joke.

I hate the Spanish League (and Spanish players...fucking fairies) but there is no way in hell that the Bundesliga is anywhere near the quality of La Liga. So the Bundesliga being 2nd ranked in Europe in a couple of years time is fucking misleading and way off the mark. Yes, the Bundesliga leads the way in Europe in terms of stadiums, crowds, match day atmosphere and having a competitive league, but the quality still isnt that great in all honesty.

IMO, UCL and Europa League co-efficients should be counted seperately, but Im sure UEFA have their own reasons for doing it that way, even though I don't think I agree with it. Actually if it was up to me, I'd be off with all this "Champions League" malarkey, and go back to the old days of the European Cup. One country, one team (Champions) Fucking love those days.

All in all one thingis true and cannot be denied true; Serie A teams need to change their act now and make a massive paradigm shift in the way they approach their football. The whole mentality of treating the Europa League as a joke needs to stop, for the good and reputation of the whole league. Stadiums need to be re built (hopefully Udinese and Cagliari etc sort theres out soon), the crowds need to come back, adn the violence and the racism in the stands needs to stop.

I think they can get back to the glory days again, but it could take another decade or so.

 

[Alen]

Here's the coefficient countries have in Europa League. The English are in top 3 here too, so they're not doing that bad. After all, they even had finalists in the competition. Perhaps surprisingly Italy is 4th here, but there is a big difference between them and the top 3.

1 .Spain 63.875
2. Germany 56.247
3. England 54.100
4. Italy 36.575
5. France 34.000
6. Russia 31.983
7. Portugal 29.566
8. Holland 28.932
9. Ukraine 26.700

 

[Bianconero_Aus]

Thanks for the stats, Alen

 

[Ironz]

Hasn't exactly worked that way for England.

But they would beat Italy tho. Not that i'll be happy with

 

[Buck Fuddy]

Probably best to keep all the coefficient talk to 1 thread, so I copied this from the EL one.

How's this for an alarming situation though: If things continue as they have been so far this season (speaking about European games obviously), Italy will lose yet another spot before the next season starts. France would be 4th, with Italy in 5th, struggling to stay in front of Portugal who are 6th.

And yet another fun fact: it's still early, I know, but so far Italy has gained the least points this season out of all the top 10 ranked countries. Hell, they're even trailing behind such powerhouses as Belgium, Cyprus, Austria, ...