News that makes you say WTF! (14 Viewers)

[GordoDeCentral]

Honestly I don't see Islam and national identity of Pakistan as mutually exclusive. But in general I get your point.

You don't have to be muslim to become a Pakistani citizen, therein lies the difference.

 

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[Ronn]

You don't have to be muslim to become a Pakistani citizen, therein lies the difference.

And there are Muslim Arabs live in Israel as Israeli citizens


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[GordoDeCentral]

And there are Muslim Arabs live in Israel as Israeli citizens


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Key word is 'to become'

 

[ZoSo]

https://asiancorrespondent.com/2016/07/philippines-duterte-drug-addicts/

Speaking to a crowd of 500 in a Manila slum, Duterte said: “If you know of any addicts, go ahead and kill them yourself as getting their parents to do it would be too painful.”

damn

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Yeah that guy straight up crazy, he even admitted to killing people himself while campaigning to become president

 

[Ronn]

Key word is 'to become'

Even that's not entirely true. Non Jews marrying Jews can obtain citizenship after a long process that might take years, but they still can


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[Seven]

Except jewish is not a religion but a race or nationality, scattered all over the planet. (which makes it look like a religion)

Dude, wtf? You have black jews ffs.

 

[JBF]

Except jewish is not a religion but a race or nationality, scattered all over the planet. (which makes it look like a religion)

It's how they define themselves, as a nationhood. 65% of Israeli jews are atheists anyway. Do you think they withheld that information from immigration office upon arriving?

Oh thats absolutely and utterly bullshit.

Other than the fact that the Zionist organisation that founded the entity of Israel was pre-dominantly made up of atheist members; most notably Herzel there's absolutely nothing else to support that claim. In fact post 9/11 the jewish society is increasingly getting more religious with more people indetifying as religious and as ultra orthodox.

Here's an israeli proven demographics source that you can give a good read if you're really interested in actual concrete statistics coming out of there: http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/

Least secular country in the world?
I learn something new everyday.
Israel doesn't impose the death penalty for apostasy, it does not condemn gays to die. It does not value the worth of a woman as being half that of a man. It does not allow polygamy. It does not jail people for speaking out against religion.
Like Igortudor said, a plurality of Israelis are atheists/agnostics, it is the least religious country in the Middle East.

Yeah they're so secular they're applying death penalty solely on the bases of religion: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.720896



Its a fucking joke how consumed most of you are with Hasbara propaganda. Israel is this century's most abusive, racist and bigoted apartheid entity yet with a PR machine that would make you think they're a Nobel peace prize nominee every year.

 

[Mohad]

Except jewish is not a religion but a race or nationality, scattered all over the planet. (which makes it look like a religion)

 

[Ocelot]

The only country based solely on religion in the world is Israel.*


*Vatican city don't count, since i threw parties with more people than its population

Israel is mostly built on the understanding of Jews as a people though.

That is debateable of course, but religion doesn't actually play that much of a role.

 

[Seven]

Israel is mostly built on the understanding of Jews as a people though.

That is debateable of course, but religion doesn't actually play that much of a role.

Jews are neither an ethnicity nor a race though. So what makes them a people?

 

[Ocelot]

To clarify, of course you can argue against the notion of a Jewish people that is spread all over the globe, but that is the self-identified idea behind the state, which is what matters in this discussion.

- - - Updated - - -

Jews are neither an ethnicity nor a race though. So what makes them a people?

It is completely irrelevant to this discussion whether there actually is a Jewish ethnicity/race/people whatever, what matters is that the state of Israel is built on that assumption rather than a religious one.

 

[Seven]

It is completely irrelevant to this discussion whether there actually is a Jewish ethnicity/race/people whatever, what matters is that the state of Israel is built on that assumption rather than a religious one.

Yeah, no. It doesn't work that way. If it is built on the assumption that there is a Jewish people, you have to wonder why it is assumed. Clearly Jews will not say that they are a people based on racial characteristics. That would be foolish as there are black and white Jews. But because they do see themselves as a distinct people, there must be some characteristic that differentiates them from other peoples. That characteristic is religion.

 

[JBF]

Israel is mostly built on the understanding of Jews as a people though.

That is debateable of course, but religion doesn't actually play that much of a role.

The Jewish "identity" of the entity of israel makes it a direct player in the rights of people with other beliefs within the entity, for example the Arab israeli citizenship holders who constiture about 20% of the population and yet are treated like 3rd-class citizens being denied basic housing rights, economic benefits and even the legal rights as those provided to Jewish israeli citizens.

Sources: https://www.hrw.org/legacy/english/docs/2002/06/07/isrlpa4026.htm
http://www.jweekly.com/article/full...idency-rights-in-jerusalem-rights-group-says/
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2007/100597.htm


If you wouldn't constitute that as playing much of a role I don't know what would.

 

[Fred]

To clarify, of course you can argue against the notion of a Jewish people that is spread all over the globe, but that is the self-identified idea behind the state, which is what matters in this discussion.

Ironic that, when you take into consideration that Jews were the biggest victims in modern history of a state based on ethnocentric and/or racial basis.

 

[JBF]

Yeah, no. It doesn't work that way. If it is built on the assumption that there is a Jewish people, you have to wonder why it is assumed. Clearly Jews will not say that they are a people based on racial characteristics. That would be foolish as there are black and white Jews. But because they do see themselves as a distinct people, there must be some characteristic that differentiates them from other peoples. That characteristic is religion.

Even within the israeli community they recognize that's bullshit. Division between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews has always been there, which is based on racial, ethnic and even cultural differences between them. Contradicting the above claim.

 

[Seven]

Even within the israeli community they recognize that's bullshit. Division between Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews has always been there, which is based on racial, ethnic and even cultural differences between them. Contradicting the above claim.

Which above claim? Because what you're saying strengthens mine..

 

[Fred]

The Jewish "identity" of the entity of israel makes it a direct player in the rights of people with other beliefs within the entity, for example the Arab israeli citizenship holders who constiture about 20% of the population and yet are treated like 3rd-class citizens being denied basic housing rights, economic benefits and even the legal rights as those provided to Jewish israeli citizens.

Sources: https://www.hrw.org/legacy/english/docs/2002/06/07/isrlpa4026.htm
http://www.jweekly.com/article/full...idency-rights-in-jerusalem-rights-group-says/
http://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2007/100597.htm


If you wouldn't constitute that as playing much of a role I don't know what would.

What Ocelot is saying is that the reason those people are discriminated against is because they are not ethnically part of the "Jewish people" and not because they aren't Jews by religion. Which is probably true, their common narrative is more of an ethnocentric nationalist one than it is a religious one IMO. Are Atheist Israeli's who are considered "ethnic Jews" discriminated against like the Arabs are? because technically if you believe the Arab Israeli's are discriminated against due to their religion, then by extension the same treatment would be afforded to Atheist Israeli's.

 

[Maddy]

Yeah, no. It doesn't work that way. If it is built on the assumption that there is a Jewish people, you have to wonder why it is assumed. Clearly Jews will not say that they are a people based on racial characteristics. That would be foolish as there are black and white Jews. But because they do see themselves as a distinct people, there must be some characteristic that differentiates them from other peoples. That characteristic is religion.

Perhaps a wee research in the matter would help you understand Ocelot's point. Seven tribes of Israel would be a great starting point to why Jews see themselves as an ethnoreligious group.

 

[JBF]

Which above claim? Because what you're saying strengthens mine..

His claim, obviously not yours.