'Murica! (187 Viewers)

[Bjerknes]

My girlfriend wants kids. Only doubt I have in the relationship. Seems like it will place such a damper on the things we can do for 20 years.

My wife and I have felt the same way for years. We've never thought gee, we just have to have kids. We really enjoy our lifestyle and being able to travel and do what we want any given night, so it's never even been a question, really. But this is something only you can decide, and whatever you do, don't ever get forced or pressured into having kids. I've had to combat that for years and it's fucking draining, but worth the battle. It's your life.

And this is another reason why I think swaggers is correct in calling it a cult.

I think not having kids is a life choice anyone will regret as they get older.

Not necessarily. Life is short. There's lot of shit to do and things to see. You could also have kids and regret it. I know a few people who have admitted they do regret it, and these aren't cases of disability either.

On the real, you ought to have kids but it comes at a great great risk and expense in the west.

This is another good reason not to have kids.

Cause slowly dying in an old folks home is a terrifying fate

This is something people always say. But there's no guarantee your kids will be there for you anyway. Just go talk to someone in a nursing home, you'll hear a lot of sad stories about that. And if this is a major factor in deciding whether you (not you personally, but anyone) have kids or not, you're doing it wrong.

 

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[Dostoevsky]

Some women do enjoy their careers and think they won't enjoy having a family as much. Is it really stupid? What if she can't find a good man, or she sucks at relationships and would therefore be miserable in one? Maybe she's right.

She's not right and yes that's really that stupid. Or she's stupid.

You know why she can't find a good man? Because she's working for 15 hours per day and possibly during the weekend too because "she wants to make it". It's the ego. Plenty of women can be mothers but not many can have a great career. That's what triggers them. Chasing the lower percentage bracket gets her more admiration by the society. You know when she will feel miserable? When she gets to her 50s, 60s and see that she's alone. She might have bank account full but she'll be empty. Majority around her will have families. She'll have TV, nice restaurants and... well, probably nothing else, because she has to go to work for another 15 hours.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

She's not right and yes that's really that stupid. Or she's stupid.

You know why she can't find a good man? Because she's working for 15 hours per day and possibly during the weekend too because "she wants to make it". It's the ego. Plenty of women can be mothers but not many can have a great career. That's what triggers them. Chasing the lower percentage bracket gets her more admiration by the society. You know when she will feel miserable? When she gets to her 50s, 60s and see that she's alone. She might have bank account full but she'll be empty. Majority around her will have families. She'll have TV, nice restaurants and... well, probably nothing else, because she has to go to work for another 15 hours.

I agree that may be the case for most women, but there are many who do not regret not having children. You gonna say they wrong, or they're in denial? Are the ones with kids who regret it also wrong?

 

[Dostoevsky]

I agree that may be the case for most women, but there are many who do not regret not having children. You gonna say they wrong, or they're in denial? Are the ones with kids who regret it also wrong?

I can't say it sucks to be a millionaire because I never had it.

As for the latter, I think it's the wrong partner as there's no synergy there. If team sucks, it surely will suck. They might have a feeling of missing out. I think that gets sorted out as time goes by and when their kid grows up and they see what they "created" they will be proud and won't regret anything. Or they can at least be proud until their kid creates an account on Tuz.

 

[Post Ironic]

Funny to see how life’s differentiate, I became a dad at 22, 25 and 30.

Holy moly. I was not ready at all to have children in my 20s. 39 now, and sorta feeling ready, but want to wait a couple more years. Girlfriend is 31 and in a rush. Apparently it’s higher risk after 34 for disabilities for women. So I have 2-3 years to decide. If I do have kids, I don’t really want to have them after about 42 though, so that works I guess.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

I can't say it sucks to be a millionaire because I never had it.

As for the latter, I think it's the wrong partner as there's no synergy there. If team sucks, it surely will suck. They might have a feeling of missing out. I think that gets sorted out as time goes by and when their kid grows up and they see what they "created" they will be proud and won't regret anything. Or they can at least be proud until their kid creates an account on Tuz.

One particular example comes to mind now. A woman a bit older than me who grew up in my neighbourhood, she was a real thot to put it nicely. Anyway, she got knocked up and had a kid. Baby daddy nowhere on the scene, she continued her party life, all kinds of men in and out the house. The boy was sadly neglected other than having his material needs met. Stopped going to school, hangs out with drug dealers, got shot at recently, and is now making gangsta music videos. I don't think he will live very long. Not to mention they seem to hate each other.

She should not have had a child.

 

[Dostoevsky]

Holy moly. I was not ready at all to have children in my 20s. 39 now, and sorta feeling ready, but want to wait a couple more years. Girlfriend is 31 and in a rush. Apparently it’s higher risk after 34 for disabilities for women. So I have 2-3 years to decide. If I do have kids, I don’t really want to have them after about 42 though, so that works I guess.

Bro you would be a great dad. Bar sometimes when you're insane. But you'd do great.

But yeah. I was thinking about men too. It would kind suck to be 50 when your kid starts going to school lol.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

i can confirm. i was 38 when my son was born and i had a hard time explaining myself why i left it so late. obviously i can't do anything about it now. i can only suggest you guys to not overthink it. just do it. the first year was tough, after that every minute is a blessing

but i get point of those who won't have a kid. a friend recently explained how a kid and a maternity leave would compromise her career, and all i could reply was fair enough. we all have different priorities

we've also given up on things in our careers. now i don't earn nearly as much as i could, but at least i have the freedom to stay at home with my son when he's sick, we can spend plenty of time together, and i wouldn't want it any other way. my son will be 8 in may, we still have a few years until he doesn't want to be around us that much anymore, so we're enjoying the current situation until we can


it's not cheap for everyone and in every country, it's certainly something you need to consider. we were lucky enough to already have a few real estates before my son was born, so when he'll need a place to move in, we'll just sell something and buy an other in any city he prefers (unless it's in switzerland or luxembourg or facsimile lol). we're also not opposed to give him well kept used clothes, and my gf has a friend with a son who's like 2 years older and has basically the same build, and she's giving away basically unworn brand clothes regularly. our only additional regular cost on the long run is the food until he goes to university. and so far he's been smart enough so that i can realistically expect him to get a state financed scholarship. he's having some additional stuff like drawing school, horse riding, etc, but those aren't too expensive. half an hour of horse riding cost like $5 even last year lol, it was recently raised to ~$7.5, still not expensive. buying a bycicle or building him the tree house i spent my time with durig last spring/summer aren't terrible either. for example the tree house cost me around $1000 or so in materials, an other few hundreds in tools, and i enjoyed it much more than any project i did in the last few years, and my son loves the thing a lot, so the benefits easily overshadow the costs, be it time or actual money

anyway, when it comes to costs, we were probably both prepared and fortunate enough. we're also closer to being ascetics then hedonists so there's that too haha

bottom line is that there wasn't a single moment when i didn't feel blessed and i never regretted my choice of having a kid. it never felt like a task or a sacrifice

The longer i live the more i realize it's really insane to ignore tens of thousands of years of social wisdom because of 50 some years of experimentation and hubris. It took me a while but i am fully convinced now on the delayed gratification and accomplishment of having and raising kids.

 

[Bjerknes]

She's not right and yes that's really that stupid. Or she's stupid.

You know why she can't find a good man? Because she's working for 15 hours per day and possibly during the weekend too because "she wants to make it". It's the ego. Plenty of women can be mothers but not many can have a great career. That's what triggers them. Chasing the lower percentage bracket gets her more admiration by the society. You know when she will feel miserable? When she gets to her 50s, 60s and see that she's alone. She might have bank account full but she'll be empty. Majority around her will have families. She'll have TV, nice restaurants and... well, probably nothing else, because she has to go to work for another 15 hours.

The question is, why do you care so much about something that doesn't impact you? If another person wants to have a good career and doesn't want a family, why does that matter to you?

 

[Dostoevsky]

One particular example comes to mind now. A woman a bit older than me who grew up in my neighbourhood, she was a real thot to put it nicely. Anyway, she got knocked up and had a kid. Baby daddy nowhere on the scene, she continued her party life, all kinds of men in and out the house. The boy was sadly neglected other than having his material needs met. Stopped going to school, hangs out with drug dealers, got shot at recently, and is now making gangsta music videos. I don't think he will live very long.

She should not have had a child.

She should go to prison for at least 30 years if you ask me.

Still, on each shitty example there are like 20 good ones too. But we should separate whether it's good to have kids vs should morons have kids.

 

[Dostoevsky]

The question is, why do you care so much about something that doesn't impact you? If another person wants to have a good career and doesn't want a family, why does that matter to you?

Who said it does? I was just laughing at the arguments. I never stopped anybody even if their ideas were stupid.

It's a forum and its point is to speak our mind. I never hold lectures to people on the streets. They can go put their paycheck and bonuses up their ass for all I care. I just wish they'd do my 8 hour shifts too since they are insane.

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

Funny to see how life’s differentiate, I became a dad at 22, 25 and 30.

You own a home too? You essentially have the life that I always wanted growing up, but I would've started at like 26 instead

 

[Vlad]

Funny to see how life’s differentiate, I became a dad at 22, 25 and 30.

21

 

[Post Ironic]

Bro you would be a great dad. Bar sometimes when you're insane. But you'd do great.

But yeah. I was thinking about men too. It would kind suck to be 50 when your kid starts going to school lol.

Thanks, bro. You would be too. Raising kids on the classics! Well-adjusted, able to handle whatever the world throws at them kids.

If I have kids, I definitely don’t want to be 70 when they turn 20. I have an uncle like that and it just seems unfortunate to be in that position, physically unable to really do all the things you would want to do with your kids as they grow up.

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21

Accident or on purpose?

 

[X Æ A-12]

Your nope implies to what exactly? I have only pointed out certain traits in careers that make good parents too.

Sure the traits you mentioned are all probably better to have than not have in any endeavor but they by themselves are hardly any indicator of being a good parent.

But i guess its hard to go further in this conversation without defining a successful parent? What do you look as an indicator that you've been a successful parent? That your kids are obedient, that they are superficially successful or that they are happy/ stable?

 

[Vlad]

Thanks, bro. You would be too. Raising kids on the classics! Well-adjusted, able to handle whatever the world throws at them kids.

If I have kids, I definitely don’t want to be 70 when they turn 20. I have an uncle like that and it just seems unfortunate to be in that position, physically unable to really do all the things you would want to do with your kids as they grow up.

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Accident or on purpose?

Wasnt planned ofc, I dont know many people that want kids at 21 . But once it happened we decided to go through with it and we also had means so made the decision easier. I never felt like I was missing out on something, seemed natural to slot into dads role. Other parents would have always thought I was her brother at playground . I'll turn 39 this year, my daughter 18 and Im shipping her off to college.

 

[U Picciriddu]

You own a home too? You essentially have the life that I always wanted growing up, but I would've started at like 26 instead

I’m still renting but that’s not due to not having the money to buy a house because of having children. There’s a housing shortage here of almost a million houses on a population of 17 million. I ended up renting a very nice house (if I could buy my house I would) because the housing market is locked. Plain ass normal houses who were worth 230k 15 years ago are getting sold for more than 500k at this point. I’m timing the market and hoping for a recession, whenever the prices collapse I got everything ready to enter the market. My generation basically got outpaced by economic growth and severe regulation, most who were able to buy a house just got helped by their parents, unfortunately we didn’t had that kinda luck. I simply refuse to massively overpay for a house. Having said all of this I can’t deny that I try to protect myself aswel. There are so many people why bought in ‘06, divorced during the crisis of ‘08, had to sell their house with a loss end ended up in debt. I know a few cases. Therefore I decided to wait for the right time instead of following low interest rates and therefore overpaying a lot.

If anything getting children motivated me to earn more, fortunately that went the right way

 

[pavelnel]

I get you. Partially.

Here's where we disagree ( I suppose). The thing is, you can't control shit and you gotta be aware of that. Not you, but pretty much majority of us. There's certain risk at everything. We may not get to live the next year, who knows what may happen. But we still go on living and we don't think about cancer. I was saying even last year that I expect an economic collapse, I still do expect it, so I'm aware that we'll be in deep shit. Still, imo that is not the reason to make such a harsh decision not to have kids. I don't know about you, but I lived here during the 90s where we faced not only sanctions but hyperinflation that's like top 3 ever faced. I'm not saying that I'm proud of it, but lemme tell you one thing, it sure made us tougher compared to some snowflakes. What I mean is, we still managed to finish school, eat, grow up and turn into decent people. Did we miss out? I guess. But missed out on what? I missed out shitload of things honestly, but I can't say it made me a worse person. If anything, there are more good people among poor folks compared to spoiled rich brats. And no, I'm not saying it's better to live poor. Just stating the fact how money influences certain groups.

And again. It's fine if you say "I'll think about kids in 5 years". That's cool I guess. But if your girl is 35-36, imo that act is quite brutal as you can "miss out" on having a family with a girl you love. It's just an example but you get what I mean. It's fine if she's 20. Shortly, many factors should be considered but imo people are so tinny creatures that they shouldn't plan so many things because it's impossible and the cost is way too big. Stopping life because some things may happen is scary. Not just that, but even if does happen (financial collapse e.g.) it doesn't have to mean the end of the world per se.

Hopefully I am not right, but in the next 2-3 years future of humanity might be decided and probably not in our favor. I highly doubt we will live to 2030 following the current path or if we do everything will be much worse.
I think we have reached a point in time when we can't cope with the level of technological progress and things are going out of control much faster than the average human can comprehend.
People seem to want to delude themself that AI will destroy mundane jobs but creative and phisycal jobs are safe. This is a logical falacy. The white collar jobs will start to disappear and people will not be able to retrain or start physical jobs, because the main customers for blue collar products are the white collar jobs. The loss of white collar jobs will start a domino effect..
I also suffered through hyperinfaltion in the 90ies but I was young and my parents never had the convinction that all opportunities are gone. Right now it seems that most if not all opportunities will be gone.
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[Dostoevsky]

Hopefully I am not right, but in the next 2-3 years future of humanity might be decided and probably not in our favor. I highly doubt we will live to 2030 following the current path or if we do everything will be much worse.
I think we have reached a point in time when we can't cope with the level of technological progress and things are going out of control much faster than the average human can comprehend.

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In what way do you see AI as a threat on such a huge scale? I mean, you mention the end of the world so Im curious how do you see the upcoming years.

 

[pavelnel]

In what way do you see AI as a threat on such a huge scale? I mean, you mention the end of the world so Im curious how do you see the upcoming years.

I see mass unemployment pretty soon, maybe next year. I mean millions and millions of jobs, possibly hundreds of millions, non stop layoffs, financial system decimated... White collar jobs disappearing first, then blue collar jobs. The governments can probably slow down this a bit but if development of AI is not completely stoped this will be a band-aid on a RPG wound. These valuations of every assets are just pure fiction based on projections that there will be demand for these services and goods. How will people without jobs, prospects and purpose spend on anything except survival?

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