'Murica! (219 Viewers)

[Juliano13]

I never understood why money is so important in a campaing.

I get it that you can't do anything with 5mln, but what can 80mln do that 50mln can't?

Most of people already know who Sanders or Biden are, what's the point?

Or am I missing something?

Correct! Trump won with a lot less money than the other Republicans and a lot less than Hilary. Money is also a poor indicator of performance in general elections but is is a better indicator in primaries, where some candidates are not well known.

As for Sanders and Biden, you are absolutely right.

 

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[Juliano13]

Same goes to Bernie though. A lot of people can’t stand him either.

Not the same. It's worse for him, because he is so extreme, very few people who are not far to the left can stand him.

 

[campionesidd]

What? Obviously Biden is way more electable than Sanders. That's not to say that Sanders is sure to lose against Trump, like some people suggest. But all the polls and even common knowledge say that Biden has a way better chance, because he is the more moderate candidate.

Bernie is so crazy leftist that he makes Trump look like the moderate choice.

Real Clear Politics have both Bernie and Biden at about a 5 percent advantage to beat Trump.
In polls conducted in February, Bernie beat Trump in all of them, while Biden lost to Trump in the Emerson poll.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

Also, Bernie is more left wing, but his support among Independents is way higher than Biden's.
These days elections come down to voter turnout, and Sanders is definitely has a better ground game than Biden, from what we've seen so far in the primaries.

 

[Juliano13]

i keep seeing this right after seeing polls showing that biden barely has half the support or money of bernie

Which polls? The relevant polls for this debate show that Biden has 48-43 lead over Trump.

That's what electability means, being able to defeat Trump, no winning the nomination. Extreme candidates often win the primaries and fail in the general elections.

 

[lgorTudor]

Not the same. It's worse for him, because he is so extreme, very few people who are not far to the left can stand him.

Bernie is a textbook Social Democrat (european understanding)

It's just that Americans have a binary vision on politics and he has to label himself as commie for americans to understand his general direction

 

[Juliano13]

Real Clear Politics have both Bernie and Biden at about a 5 percent advantage to beat Trump.
In polls conducted in February, Bernie beat Trump in all of them, while Biden lost to Trump in the Emerson poll.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

Also, Bernie is more left wing, but his support among Independents is way higher than Biden's.
These days elections come down to voter turnout, and Sanders is definitely has a better ground game than Biden, from what we've seen so far in the primaries.

I read FiveThirtyEight because they aggregate the data from many polls, which gives a more accurate picture and makes for better predictions. They have Sanders having a 2 point lead over Trump.

I dont know about the ground game but as a counter point, I think Biden has done a better job in the debates than Sanders.

 

[Juliano13]

Bernie is a textbook Social Democrat (european understanding)

It's just that Americans have a binary vision on politics and he has to label himself as commie for americans to understand his general direction

Europe is still way more to the left than America and Sanders is running in America..

 

[ALC]

In your world maybe, but in the real world that is a fact.

For example, here's what experts with proven track record say:


https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...n-but-not-sanders-probably-really-do-mean-it/

On the other hand, random commie posters on Tuz probably know elections and sociology better.

Sounds like that article is using some pretty skewed numbers considering Bernie’s supports are mainly on the younger side. That’s a boomer poll, and boomers like Biden, you’re right about that.


Now, some of that is probably related to one downside of our survey — we don’t have any respondents under the age of 30. (Respondents had to be at least 18 to participate when the panel began in 2007.) That means some of the voters who are the most pro-Sanders are underrepresented and some of Biden’s supporters are probably overrepresented.

 

[X Æ A-12]

Sounds like that article is using some pretty skewed numbers considering Bernie’s supports are mainly on the younger side. That’s a boomer poll, and boomers like Biden, you’re right about that.


Now, some of that is probably related to one downside of our survey — we don’t have any respondents under the age of 30. (Respondents had to be at least 18 to participate when the panel began in 2007.) That means some of the voters who are the most pro-Sanders are underrepresented and some of Biden’s supporters are probably overrepresented.

wow great poll there

 

[Post Ironic]

Sounds like that article is using some pretty skewed numbers considering Bernie’s supports are mainly on the younger side. That’s a boomer poll, and boomers like Biden, you’re right about that.


Now, some of that is probably related to one downside of our survey — we don’t have any respondents under the age of 30. (Respondents had to be at least 18 to participate when the panel began in 2007.) That means some of the voters who are the most pro-Sanders are underrepresented and some of Biden’s supporters are probably overrepresented.

Zero respondents under the age of 30.

 

[Juliano13]

Zero respondents under the age of 30.

This is a panel, not a poll for whoever knows the difference. They've explained clearly why there arent any respondents under 30.

 

[Post Ironic]

This is a panel, not a poll for whoever knows the difference. They've explained clearly why there arent any respondents under 30.

And yet it still acknowledges it as a significant flaw which you entirely ignored when you brought it here. Not a single survey respondent is under 30 in their own words, which would significantly skew results away from Bernie towards Biden.

 

[Juliano13]

And yet it still acknowledges it as a significant flaw which you entirely ignored when you brought it here. Not a single survey respondent is under 30 in their own words, which would significantly skew results away from Bernie towards Biden.

No, I was refering to the polls that have been done, not to this panel, although this data is also valuable for one very important reason:

young people vote a lot less

The other reason why I think Biden has a better chance against Trump is because he is way more moderate, which is benefitial. That's the abc of elections. The extreme leftists would still mostly support Biden because they have no choice, and he is still preferable to Trump for them. On the other hand, Sanders is too extreme for many centrists.

 

[Post Ironic]

No, I was refering to the polls that have been done, not to this panel, although this data is also valuable for one very important reason:

young people vote a lot less

The other reason why I think Biden has a better chance against Trump is because he is way more moderate, which is benefitial. That's the abc of elections. The extreme leftists would still mostly support Biden because they have no choice, and he is still preferable to Trump for them. On the other hand, Sanders is too extreme for many centrists.

To the last point, one of the reasons, among many, that Trump beat Hillary was young people who support Bernie deciding not to vote in the last election. Young people vote a lot less, but when there are candidates who can mobilize the youth vote, they are shown to be a major and influential voting bloc. Obama in 2008 (minorities and youth), Trudeau in his first election win here in Canada. Sanders seems to have the youth of America locked in for him and very motivated. Which is likely why he still holds polling advantages over Trump even without wholesale support of the older democratic population.

Anyways, I’m mostly indifferent to these clowns, left, centre, right. I’d enjoy a Bernie presidency if only to see the meltdown of rich ‘Muricans.

 

[ALC]

No, I was refering to the polls that have been done, not to this panel, although this data is also valuable for one very important reason:

young people vote a lot less

The other reason why I think Biden has a better chance against Trump is because he is way more moderate, which is benefitial. That's the abc of elections. The extreme leftists would still mostly support Biden because they have no choice, and he is still preferable to Trump for them. On the other hand, Sanders is too extreme for many centrists.

you can get caught up in semantics if you want, but that data was not reliable and it doesn’t prove what you’re trying to say.

However, it does seem you’ve been brainwashed by media’s dissing on Bernie which has been on full force lately. That website is owned by ESPN, which is owned by Disney. That’s big corporations who stand to lose a lot if Bernie wins and stand to do business as usual if Biden wins.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Bernie! Bernie! Bernie!

He's the only one who has a chance of beating Trump.

Okay that's my contribution, I know nothing

 

[Ronn]

Not the same. It's worse for him, because he is so extreme, very few people who are not far to the left can stand him.

I don’t know if it’s worse. The thing is establishment democrats will hold their nose and vote for Bernie so that they don’t have to see Trump for another 4 years. Bernie supporters are more likely to throw a fit and stay home like 2016.
also Bernie is not really that extreme. But he has no political capital in congress to be able to pass anything.

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I have the odd feeling that despite Pete and Amy clearing the way for Biden he’s going to take a heavy beating tomorrow.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

It's painfully comical to see the same people who call Trump unbalanced and dangerous at the helm support someone like sanders, but then again most people can't look past the surface and find it easier to just be labelled good because they support what on the surface sounds like a good idea.

 

[Ronn]

It's painfully comical to see the same people who call Trump unbalanced and dangerous at the helm support someone like sanders, but then again most people can't look past the surface and find it easier to just be labelled good because they support what on the surface sounds like a good idea.

Sanders is literally saying the same stuff for 40 years. He thinks he has a mission. Whether or not you agree with that mission his craziness is not anything like Trump’s.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

Sanders is literally saying the same stuff for 40 years. He thinks he has a mission. Whether or not you agree with that mission his craziness is not anything like Trump’s.

Obviously it's not, that doesn't make it any less dangerous or destructive, as a matter of fact i rather have Trump over Sanders.