'Murica! (207 Viewers)

[ZoSo]

Make no mistake: Hillary Clinton was a Republican. At least of the 1990s variety.

It's funny because of all talk about the fissures and imploding of the Republican Party with the Trump effect, and yet it's the Demos who are lost in the wilderness at the end of it all.

people mistake that because she is pro modern "social issues" like abortion, gay issues etc (at least "publicly") she is a great left wing or centre left candidate, but ignore her very right wing warhawk, interventionist, pro-special interest track record

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Add Latino, immigrant, black and woman to that list. Truth is its always been this way. What changed now was that those disgusting folks found a motivational figure in Trump to leave their closets and show their bigotry, hatred and Xenophobia to the world. They voted.

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As I've said all along, this election's main driving force has been the anti-establishment movement. Michael Moore was indeed correct (albeit really late and hanging onto the coattails of the obvious) by claiming the working class is fed up with Republicans and Democrats. Obviously their votes didn't matter beforehand, otherwise Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and the like would have voted as they usually have -- Democrat. So the proof is in the pudding that the Obama administration, the Democratic party, and the Republican party are all worthless. Washington DC has been an utter failure ever since 9/11 and 16 years of two decrepit parties was finally enough to give birth to what we see today. At its core, this is a good movement -- these two parties need to start from scratch, and we need a third party. Anything less after this point would be yet another failure for the nation as a whole, and we don't have time for more of that shit.

I'm very glad this process is over. Trump isn't the best solution for the country, but my hope is that he can prove his detractors wrong by at least doing some good. He can start by reforming the tax code, weeding out some of the corruption between wall street and DC, and not perpetuating the countless foreign entanglements that the Neo-Cons have been pushing for 20 years. Sprinkle in some job creation, and he may not be so bad after all. If Trump turns out to be a nightmare, then everyone should demand he's brought to justice, unlike the Bush voters.

To the folks here, I know it's been hard to get along over the past several months, but it isn't personal. I just want what is best for the country, especially economically. On my local ballot, there were even a couple Democrats I voted for as they actually had solid ideas for small businesses in the area. Unfortunately, they didn't win. But that's what happens, you win some and you lose some. Hopefully we all can return to business as usual on here and have some meaningful discussions in the future.

if he manages to implement even just this it would be a huge positive. too many special interests, corporations and lobbyists really run the country

- OCTOBER 18, 2016 -

TRUMP PLEDGES TO DRAIN THE SWAMP AND IMPOSE CONGRESSIONAL TERM LIMITS

There is another major announcement I am going to make today as part of our pledge to drain the swamp in Washington. If I am elected President, I will push for a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress.

Decades of failure in Washington, and decades of special interest dealing, must come to an end. We have to break the cycle of corruption, and we have to give new voices a chance to go into government service. The time for Congressional term limits has arrived.

...

If we let the Clinton Cartel run this government, history will record that 2017 was the year America lost its independence.

We will not let that happen.

It is time to drain the swamp in Washington, D.C.

That is why I am proposing a package of ethics reforms to make our government honest once again.

First: I am going to institute a 5-year ban on all executive branch officials lobbying the government after they leave government service.

Second: I am going to ask Congress to institute its own 5-year ban on lobbying by former members of Congress and their staffs.

Third: I am going to expand the definition of lobbyist so we close all the loopholes that former government officials use by labeling themselves consultants and advisors when we all know they are lobbyists.

Fourth: I am going to issue a lifetime ban against senior executive branch officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government.

Fifth: I am going to ask Congress to pass a campaign finance reform that prevents registered foreign lobbyists from raising money in American elections.

 

Buy on AliExpress.com

[AFL_ITALIA]

people mistake that because she is pro modern "social issues" like abortion, gay issues etc (at least "publicly") she is a great left wing or centre left candidate, but ignore her very right wing warhawk, interventionist, pro-special interest track record

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if he manages to implement even just this it would be a huge positive. too many special interests, corporations and lobbyists really run the country

Why do you believe he will actually do any of that? (The drain the swamp thing)

 

[ZoSo]

Why do you believe he will actually do any of that? (The drain the swamp thing)

"if"

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It's really tiring to hear this "misogynistic" argument that because the man won, half the country now hates women. They're basically saying that Hillary should have been elected because she has a vagina and she should get a free pass for being a woman. There are people that are saying that Trump's sexual comments are worse than all of Clinton's scandals. Utter stupidity it's really quite regressive that they believe the Presidency should be decided on genitals instead of a candidate by candidate basis

 

[AFL_ITALIA]

"if"

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It's really tiring to hear this "misogynistic" argument that because the man won, half the country now hates women. They're basically saying that Hillary should have been elected because she has a vagina and she should get a free pass for being a woman. There are that people saying that Trump's sexual comments are worse than all of Clinton's scandals. Utter stupidity it's really quite regressive that they believe the Presidency should be decided on genitals instead of a candidate by candidate basis

Missed that part, was just curious.

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Clinton lost because Trump's anti-free trade rhetoric resonated with rust belt voters while Hillary ignored them. Look at how Sanders surprised there as well during the primary. It's really that simple.

 

[Maddy]

Yeah. The Democrats and especially the DNC must be kicking themself right now.

Michael Moore's biggest "fuck you" didn't come from those who voted Trump, it came from those who couldn't be bothered by Hillary.

Hillary's loss is the last nail in the Third Way-coffin of left wing identity politics and supply-side economics (neo-lib). Blair (New Labour), Bill Clinton, Schröder and the rest of the shit fest gang from the 90s and 00s.

As a Social Democrat I can only applaud this.

 

[GordoDeCentral]

@Enron @X @swag

We did it yall

Let's celebrate

Cell block 6 here

 

[Seven]

"if"

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It's really tiring to hear this "misogynistic" argument that because the man won, half the country now hates women. They're basically saying that Hillary should have been elected because she has a vagina and she should get a free pass for being a woman. There are people that are saying that Trump's sexual comments are worse than all of Clinton's scandals. Utter stupidity it's really quite regressive that they believe the Presidency should be decided on genitals instead of a candidate by candidate basis

That's not true. They're saying misogyny won, because Trump is a misogynistic fuck.

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As I've said all along, this election's main driving force has been the anti-establishment movement. Michael Moore was indeed correct (albeit really late and hanging onto the coattails of the obvious) by claiming the working class is fed up with Republicans and Democrats. Obviously their votes didn't matter beforehand, otherwise Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and the like would have voted as they usually have -- Democrat. So the proof is in the pudding that the Obama administration, the Democratic party, and the Republican party are all worthless. Washington DC has been an utter failure ever since 9/11 and 16 years of two decrepit parties was finally enough to give birth to what we see today. At its core, this is a good movement -- these two parties need to start from scratch, and we need a third party. Anything less after this point would be yet another failure for the nation as a whole, and we don't have time for more of that shit.

I'm very glad this process is over. Trump isn't the best solution for the country, but my hope is that he can prove his detractors wrong by at least doing some good. He can start by reforming the tax code, weeding out some of the corruption between wall street and DC, and not perpetuating the countless foreign entanglements that the Neo-Cons have been pushing for 20 years. Sprinkle in some job creation, and he may not be so bad after all. If Trump turns out to be a nightmare, then everyone should demand he's brought to justice, unlike the Bush voters.

To the folks here, I know it's been hard to get along over the past several months, but it isn't personal. I just want what is best for the country, especially economically. On my local ballot, there were even a couple Democrats I voted for as they actually had solid ideas for small businesses in the area. Unfortunately, they didn't win. But that's what happens, you win some and you lose some. Hopefully we all can return to business as usual on here and have some meaningful discussions in the future.

Sure. Anyone could see that. And to be honest it's perfectly understandable people are fed up. But Trump is quite possibly the worst answer you could possible have for these issues. My only hope is that a countermovement will wake up and that some good will come of it. In any case it is time the US gets rid of a system that is clearly designed to make people hate each other's guts.

 

[ZoSo]

Trump

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That's not true. They're saying misogyny won, because Trump is a misogynistic fuck.

Not really, many are saying it just because the woman lost

 

[Seven]

Not really, many are saying it just because the woman lost

Well I'm not. In fact it would have been sort of a shame if Clinton had been the first female president imo. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good for young girls to see that a woman can become president. But I'm not quite sure Clinton is the best rolemodel.

The problem imo is that Trump has been shown to be misogynistic (although I can forgive him for his 'lockerroom talk' tbh) and has come out incredibly racist in speeches.

 

[ZoSo]

Well I'm not. In fact it would have been sort of a shame if Clinton had been the first female president imo. Don't get me wrong, I think it's good for young girls to see that a woman can become president. But I'm not quite sure Clinton is the best rolemodel.

The problem imo is that Trump has been shown to be misogynistic (although I can forgive him for his 'lockerroom talk' tbh) and has come out incredibly racist in speeches.

Exactly, it's disgusting how these people are overlooking everything wrong with her just because she's female. I will admit her ambition is admirable but the way she has decided to pursue her goals is just plain wrong.

I think his supposed misogyny is hyperbole, though I can see he could be a little but now how so many like to say. I don't see him as racist at all though. Not wanting illegal immigrants and terrorists in the country is not racist.

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[Seven]

Exactly, it's disgusting how these people are overlooking everything wrong with her just because she's female. I will admit her ambition is admirable but the way she has decided to pursue her goals is just plain wrong.

I think his supposed misogyny is hyperbole, though I can see he could be a little but now how so many like to say. I don't see him as racist at all though. Not wanting illegal immigrants and terrorists in the country is not racist.

Calling for a ban of all muslims entering the USA kind of is though. He's implying that every muslim out there is a terrorist. I mean, what he said about Mexicans reeeealllly borders on racist (I guess he kind of backed down when he said "I assume some are good people", but still), but the muslim bit really can't be defended at all.

 

[Osman]

Come on Zozo, Trump is extremely misogynistic, no one invented it, it's litterally his own words of insulting and looking down on women countless of occasions for 2 decades.

Skickat från min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

 

[Seven]

Come on Zozo, Trump is extremely misogynistic, no one invented it, it's litterally his own words of insulting and looking down on women countless of occasions for 2 decades.

Skickat från min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

The media focused on the wrong bits though. Of course 'grab them by the pussy' isn't a very presidential thing to say. And yeah, it's kind of misogynistic. But in truth we all know he was just bragging like he always is.

 

[Osman]

He was showing he is a moron, acting like a little infantile boy in 68 year old man's body, trying to impress his peer (if you can call that Bush weasel that).

Skickat från min SM-G930F via Tapatalk

 

[ZoSo]

Calling for a ban of all muslims entering the USA kind of is though. He's implying that every muslim out there is a terrorist. I mean, what he said about Mexicans reeeealllly borders on racist (I guess he kind of backed down when he said "I assume some are good people", but still), but the muslim bit really can't be defended at all.

That was his original stance but he's changed it now to people from places like Syria, Afghanistan etc. due to the possibility that ISIS trained terrorists could be among them or at least until they have better method of checking who is actually entering the country. It's basically "a few ruin it for the majority", it's not racism when we're talking about the possibility of terrorist attacks due to a small percentage of barbarians, it's simply the safety of those within the country.

 

[Ocelot]

Not really, many are saying it just because the woman lost

I really don't think so. Had Bernie Sanders won against Clinton in the primaries for example, barely anyone would've cried misogyny (there are always some idiots).

And denying Trump's clearly misogynistic comments and outlooks is basically denying reality at this point. Not saying all of his voters think necessarily the same, but they're at least no bothered enough by it not to vote for him.

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Have you ever considered that you might be wrong

I know you're not really being serious, but a lot of times actually. Sometimes I change my stance afterwards (though rarely 180 degrees), many times I don't tbh (which is the same for everyone I assume and really interesting in itself - X commented on that a few times too).

But please, do tell me why you think that Trump is not trying to do the following things:

Trickle down economics, repeal Obamacare, target Gay marriage, abortion, deoprtations (not as many as he promised, but still), repeal existing climate change agreements & blocking any future ones....

Not to mention an incredibly conservative biased supreme court for the next decades.

Backed up by his or his campaign's statements preferably.

Or, if it's the last part you disagree with, tell me why those things are actually good ideas and not "going backwards" (obviously a much more debatable statement of judgement).

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As I've said all along, this election's main driving force has been the anti-establishment movement. Michael Moore was indeed correct (albeit really late and hanging onto the coattails of the obvious) by claiming the working class is fed up with Republicans and Democrats. Obviously their votes didn't matter beforehand, otherwise Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and the like would have voted as they usually have -- Democrat. So the proof is in the pudding that the Obama administration, the Democratic party, and the Republican party are all worthless. Washington DC has been an utter failure ever since 9/11 and 16 years of two decrepit parties was finally enough to give birth to what we see today. At its core, this is a good movement -- these two parties need to start from scratch, and we need a third party. Anything less after this point would be yet another failure for the nation as a whole, and we don't have time for more of that shit.

I'm very glad this process is over. Trump isn't the best solution for the country, but my hope is that he can prove his detractors wrong by at least doing some good. He can start by reforming the tax code, weeding out some of the corruption between wall street and DC, and not perpetuating the countless foreign entanglements that the Neo-Cons have been pushing for 20 years. Sprinkle in some job creation, and he may not be so bad after all. If Trump turns out to be a nightmare, then everyone should demand he's brought to justice, unlike the Bush voters.

To the folks here, I know it's been hard to get along over the past several months, but it isn't personal. I just want what is best for the country, especially economically. On my local ballot, there were even a couple Democrats I voted for as they actually had solid ideas for small businesses in the area. Unfortunately, they didn't win. But that's what happens, you win some and you lose some. Hopefully we all can return to business as usual on here and have some meaningful discussions in the future.

Not that you're really wrong here, but I do think that the specific choice of the candidate being Hillary had a lot to do with her defeat as well - Obama for example has outstanding approval ratings, and I believe Biden would've won too (debatable of course since he's probably had his own scandals that simply haven't been receiving the same attention as hers, but it's hard to argue against him having much more appeal to exactly the demographic that lost the election for Hillary, namely the white working class of the Rust Belt).

Good post in general. I disagree with some things of course, but we've been through that enough times

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That was his original stance but he's changed it now to people from places like Syria, Afghanistan etc. due to the possibility that ISIS trained terrorists could be among them or at least until they have better method of checking who is actually entering the country. It's basically "a few ruin it for the majority", it's not racism when we're talking about the possibility of terrorist attacks due to a small percentage of barbarians, it's simply the safety of those within the country.

You can justify any just a lot of racial discrimination on those grounds, doesn't mean it's not racism.

 

[ZoSo]

I really don't think so. Had Bernie Sanders won against Clinton in the primaries for example, barely anyone would've cried misogyny (there are always some idiots).

And denying Trump's clearly misogynistic comments and outlooks is basically denying reality at this point. Not saying all of his voters think necessarily the same, but they're at least no bothered enough by it not to vote for him.

It would mostly be the same rhetoric... "First woman President denied by old white man" etc.

I'm glad not everyone is so soft that they won't vote for someone just because that person said something slightly offensive.

I know you're not really being serious, but a lot of times actually. Sometimes I change my stance afterwards (though rarely 180 degrees), many times I don't tbh (which is the same for everyone I assume and really interesting in itself - X commented on that a few times too).

But please, do tell me why you think that Trump is not trying to do the following things:

Backed up by his or his campaign's statements preferably.

Or, if it's the last part you disagree with, tell me why those things are actually good ideas and not "going backwards" (obviously a much more debatable statement of judgement).

I was referring to the "going backwards" part, in regards to the issues you listed. It's such a common thing to hear that liberalism is unequivocally 100% "progress" and anyone who says otherwise is a "bigot".

-Trickle down economics - pretty iffy on this one but he wants to cut lower class taxes too to increase spending power
-repeal Obamacare - not exactly a resounding success is it?
-target Gay marriage - I think it devalues traditional marriage, a very important part of society though I think having a civil union with the same rights as marriage would be adequate
-abortion - killing a fetus is considered social progress? generally think it shouldn't be allowed unless in case of mother's life in danger, rape, some birth defects (i.e. severe intellectual disability - if these can be detected) or other such extreme cases
-deportations - illegal immigrants do not equate to societal progress

You can justify any just a lot of racial discrimination on those grounds, doesn't mean it's not racism.

what is worse to you, "racism" (in this context) or innocent people being killed by terrorists?

 

[JuveJay]

So, another win for the rebel vote?

 

[Maddy]

Curious how Trump's gonna get the GOP aboard his ideas. Many of them are Keynesian/social democratic.

And he wants revive the coal industry

Worst thing about him getting elected is the amount of post-factual climate change denial in the cabinet. Telling that he won on returning to the 20th century with a post-factual agenda. Golden age syndrom among many american voters.

And the tradewar he wants to start with China and Mexico, multinational corporations will most likely bypass this with ease.

This will be the first time since WW2 the US becomes regressive. Odd, seeing they've always been seen as one of the most progressive countries in the world and a role model to follow.

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So, another win for the rebel vote?

Another win for the lazy non-vote. Trump got fewer votes than both McCain and Romney.

Democrats fucked up.

 

[Seven]

That was his original stance but he's changed it now to people from places like Syria, Afghanistan etc. due to the possibility that ISIS trained terrorists could be among them or at least until they have better method of checking who is actually entering the country. It's basically "a few ruin it for the majority", it's not racism when we're talking about the possibility of terrorist attacks due to a small percentage of barbarians, it's simply the safety of those within the country.

And it doesn't frighten you that this was his original stance?

I think that maybe Trump getting elected will be a good thing in the long run. At least now politicians are starting to realize that vast segments of the American population have to spend their lives in abject poverty and aren't getting their voices heard. Trump won't provide an answer, in fact he'll probably make life worse, but he has highlighted the situation.