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Messi vs C.Ronaldo (31 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dostoevsky
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I love how selective these statistics are 
Messi has a higher goal to game ratio in the Champions League
I know your response will be "but Ronaldo has scored more goals in CL knockout games"
To that I will respond: Messi has numerous assists in World Cup knockout games (Switzerland 2014, France 2018) which Ronaldo does not have
Messi has actually taken his team to a World Cup final and has a superior World Cup career overall
Ronaldo was not on the pitch when Portugal won the Euros (not his fault but it doesn't change the fact)
Messi beat Ronaldo 7-2 in La Liga when they went H2H in the same league from 2009-2018
Anyway, my opinion that Messi > Ronaldo has nothing to do with trophies or goals scored or any other statistic. I don't care about those statistics.
I just watch the game and it's blatantly obvious that Messi is better at football, it's called the eye test.
Messi has a higher goal to game ratio in the Champions League
I know your response will be "but Ronaldo has scored more goals in CL knockout games"
To that I will respond: Messi has numerous assists in World Cup knockout games (Switzerland 2014, France 2018) which Ronaldo does not have
Messi has actually taken his team to a World Cup final and has a superior World Cup career overall
Ronaldo was not on the pitch when Portugal won the Euros (not his fault but it doesn't change the fact)
Messi beat Ronaldo 7-2 in La Liga when they went H2H in the same league from 2009-2018
Anyway, my opinion that Messi > Ronaldo has nothing to do with trophies or goals scored or any other statistic. I don't care about those statistics.
I just watch the game and it's blatantly obvious that Messi is better at football, it's called the eye test.
I love how selective these statistics are
Messi has a higher goal to game ratio in the Champions League
I know your response will be "but Ronaldo has scored more goals in CL knockout games"
To that I will respond: Messi has numerous assists in World Cup knockout games (Switzerland 2014, France 2018) which Ronaldo does not have
Messi has actually taken his team to a World Cup final and has a superior World Cup career overall
Ronaldo was not on the pitch when Portugal won the Euros (not his fault but it doesn't change the fact)
Messi beat Ronaldo 7-2 in La Liga when they went H2H in the same league from 2009-2018
Anyway, my opinion that Messi > Ronaldo has nothing to do with trophies or goals scored or any other statistic. I don't care about those statistics.
I just watch the game and it's blatantly obvious that Messi is better at football, it's called the eye test.
Messi has a higher goal to game ratio in the Champions League
I know your response will be "but Ronaldo has scored more goals in CL knockout games"
To that I will respond: Messi has numerous assists in World Cup knockout games (Switzerland 2014, France 2018) which Ronaldo does not have
Messi has actually taken his team to a World Cup final and has a superior World Cup career overall
Ronaldo was not on the pitch when Portugal won the Euros (not his fault but it doesn't change the fact)
Messi beat Ronaldo 7-2 in La Liga when they went H2H in the same league from 2009-2018
Anyway, my opinion that Messi > Ronaldo has nothing to do with trophies or goals scored or any other statistic. I don't care about those statistics.
I just watch the game and it's blatantly obvious that Messi is better at football, it's called the eye test.
You say numerous and you name 2.
'Taken' lol. Last thing he did on that world cup was the asist vs the swiss. Belgium, Netherlands and Germany, he did nothing. Defense took them to the final. Not to mention numerous copa america failures as the clear favorite. Ronaldo never was the favorite with his NT, not even top 4-5
Maybe when you mention 7>2, also say that barcelona was constantly the best team, with the exception of the last 2 years of Ronaldo there.
Ronaldo was there in every other game, and made key contributions in that tournament. And you conveniantly ignore the 2nd nt trophy. 2>0
You dont care but you bring them up the most (tie with Post Ironic maybe). Regardless of the topic. Ability with the ball is one thing, but football is a 11v11 game thats played for wins, not eye test. And Ronaldo is the guy that delivers when its needed out of the 2
Using the same logic, World Cup is only the knockouts, because the group stage is only warm up. If that is the case, then Ronaldo has 0 goal contributions in the World Cup.
3 actually since he had two assists against France.
And the point is that 3 > 0, Messi has more goal contributions than Ronaldo in World Cup knockout games.
The exact same thing could be said about Euro 2016. Ronaldo's performance in that tournament was nothing special, the only goals he scored were against Hungary and Wales (two teams hugely inferior to Portugal). Portugal won the final against France without him.
Real Madrid definitely had a better team than Barcelona in 2017/18 and yet Barcelona finished 17 points ahead.
Messi dominated Ronaldo domestically, there is no room for debate. It was very clear who the better La Liga player was from 2009 to 2018.
If you're going to count the Nations League (a glorified friendly and there is no South American equivalent), you might as well count Messi's Olympics in 2008, or his U20 World Cup in 2005.
Football is a game that is 11 vs 11, which makes comparing players through trophies inherently moronic.
Using your nonsensical standards, Baggio must have been a crap player. No World Cup, no Euros, no Champions League, nothing but domestic trophies... of course anyone with a brain knows that football is more complicated than that.
Messi is just better, it's obvious if you use your eyes. He's better at playing football. A far superior dribbler, a far superior passer, and a far superior playmaker. Ronaldo's best attribute is goalscoring and Messi equals him there.
3 actually since he had two assists against France.
And the point is that 3 > 0, Messi has more goal contributions than Ronaldo in World Cup knockout games.
The exact same thing could be said about Euro 2016. Ronaldo's performance in that tournament was nothing special, the only goals he scored were against Hungary and Wales (two teams hugely inferior to Portugal). Portugal won the final against France without him.
Real Madrid definitely had a better team than Barcelona in 2017/18 and yet Barcelona finished 17 points ahead.
Messi dominated Ronaldo domestically, there is no room for debate. It was very clear who the better La Liga player was from 2009 to 2018.
If you're going to count the Nations League (a glorified friendly and there is no South American equivalent), you might as well count Messi's Olympics in 2008, or his U20 World Cup in 2005.
Football is a game that is 11 vs 11, which makes comparing players through trophies inherently moronic.
Using your nonsensical standards, Baggio must have been a crap player. No World Cup, no Euros, no Champions League, nothing but domestic trophies... of course anyone with a brain knows that football is more complicated than that.
Messi is just better, it's obvious if you use your eyes. He's better at playing football. A far superior dribbler, a far superior passer, and a far superior playmaker. Ronaldo's best attribute is goalscoring and Messi equals him there.
Ugh you're really annoying forcing me into a pointless debate
Not quite the same thing. Messi scored half his WC goals in one single group stage, where Bosnia and Nigeria were Argentina's challengers lol. Portugal underachieved in some World Cups, but they were a weak team for all of Ronaldo's prime. Argentina always came as one of the favorites and never won. The one time they came close was because of the defense, regardless of the immense offensive talent they always have around Messi. Also the sample size is tiny for you to draw comparison, nothing like the CL. How many world cup knock out games either of them played? And how many in the CL? So please mr statistician, get out with your goal contribution, assist arguments, stick to the eye test
If you actually relied on eye test you would see how Ronaldo carried that team to a final. A team that had no business being there. And if you knew the difference in quality between the two national teams through out their careers, you would stop drawing comparisons. Not to mention the Euros before that one, where Portugal was always in the mix. One delivered with a team of weak individuals (compared to the competition) the other failed with a group of superior names. It's no contest. But sure, go ahead and count goal contributions, passes in the final 3rd or whatever.
That's one season you mentioned. Messi had a better team in 2012 yet Ronaldo himself won the league on their stadium. Real in 2018 was all in on the 3peat. They lost much of the depth from 2017 so they couldn't focus on both competitions as much as the year before. They beat an even stronger barcelona with Neymar that year to the title. and there you go again with extreme claims, they played each other 2x a year in la liga, yet you're quick to make bogus claims. La liga is won against the small clubs, which is barcelonas and messi's forte. Champions league you have to beat the big clubs, many of them, which is where Ronaldo and Real excel
Olympics is a U23 tournament. Nations league is played with senior teams and is played vs top national teams. Yes, in terms of prestige it's maybe on par with confed cup (although in terms of difficulty much tougher), but it's still a win. Against Switzerland and Netherlands, common WC and Euro participants.
Claiming Baggio was a bum would only a fool, it almost sounds like it could be coming from you. There is always context Neddy, behind every success and failure. Why Baggio never won the CL? Maybe because he played there 1sy time as a 30yo for Milan? won Italian league with Juve when Milan were considered the strongest team, won with Milan when Juve was. Won UEFA Cup which in early 90s was a competition on par with CL. Reached another final with Fiorentina. The guy got a balon dor after winning 'only' UEFA Cup for a reason.
Now look at Messi and the time he was a protagonist at barcelona, and one of the best in the world, aka last 15 years. Do the same for Ronaldo. How many times have each of their teams overachieved/underachieved? I think if you remove your bias, it shows who had a greater impact on his teams successes or failures
Not quite the same thing. Messi scored half his WC goals in one single group stage, where Bosnia and Nigeria were Argentina's challengers lol. Portugal underachieved in some World Cups, but they were a weak team for all of Ronaldo's prime. Argentina always came as one of the favorites and never won. The one time they came close was because of the defense, regardless of the immense offensive talent they always have around Messi. Also the sample size is tiny for you to draw comparison, nothing like the CL. How many world cup knock out games either of them played? And how many in the CL? So please mr statistician, get out with your goal contribution, assist arguments, stick to the eye test
If you actually relied on eye test you would see how Ronaldo carried that team to a final. A team that had no business being there. And if you knew the difference in quality between the two national teams through out their careers, you would stop drawing comparisons. Not to mention the Euros before that one, where Portugal was always in the mix. One delivered with a team of weak individuals (compared to the competition) the other failed with a group of superior names. It's no contest. But sure, go ahead and count goal contributions, passes in the final 3rd or whatever.
That's one season you mentioned. Messi had a better team in 2012 yet Ronaldo himself won the league on their stadium. Real in 2018 was all in on the 3peat. They lost much of the depth from 2017 so they couldn't focus on both competitions as much as the year before. They beat an even stronger barcelona with Neymar that year to the title. and there you go again with extreme claims, they played each other 2x a year in la liga, yet you're quick to make bogus claims. La liga is won against the small clubs, which is barcelonas and messi's forte. Champions league you have to beat the big clubs, many of them, which is where Ronaldo and Real excel
Olympics is a U23 tournament. Nations league is played with senior teams and is played vs top national teams. Yes, in terms of prestige it's maybe on par with confed cup (although in terms of difficulty much tougher), but it's still a win. Against Switzerland and Netherlands, common WC and Euro participants.
Claiming Baggio was a bum would only a fool, it almost sounds like it could be coming from you. There is always context Neddy, behind every success and failure. Why Baggio never won the CL? Maybe because he played there 1sy time as a 30yo for Milan? won Italian league with Juve when Milan were considered the strongest team, won with Milan when Juve was. Won UEFA Cup which in early 90s was a competition on par with CL. Reached another final with Fiorentina. The guy got a balon dor after winning 'only' UEFA Cup for a reason.
Now look at Messi and the time he was a protagonist at barcelona, and one of the best in the world, aka last 15 years. Do the same for Ronaldo. How many times have each of their teams overachieved/underachieved? I think if you remove your bias, it shows who had a greater impact on his teams successes or failures
Here's a list of Portugal's opponents on route to the Euro 2016 final:
Iceland - Hungary - Croatia - Poland - Wales
Portugal was the favourite in all these games. The only teams Ronaldo scored against was Hungary and Wales. The only time they were the underdogs were against France in the final, and they won that game without Ronaldo.
The idea that Ronaldo carried a mediocre team to the final at Euro 2016 is pure fiction. Portugal had a very easy route and Ronaldo's performances were nothing special (and not better than Messi's performances at World Cup 2014). Messi also faced stronger opponents on route to the 2014 World Cup final, than Ronaldo did on route to the 2016 Euros final.
This is the kind of dishonesty I do not like, because this is just a blatant attempt to make Messi responsible for his international failures while Ronaldo is not.
Portugal were the winners of Euros 2016 and Nations League 2019. They had a great team in 2018, more than capable of beating Uruguay, but Ronaldo disappeared and they got knocked out by a team Portugal were considered favourites against. In 2014, Ronaldo with Portugal was knocked out of the group stage by freaking USA. I don't care if Portugal was not an absolute top team back then, they were better than USA at the time.
If we are going to criticize Messi for his lack of World Cup performances, please keep the same energy for Ronaldo.
Messi was under 23 himself in 2008, so there is no point in discrediting his Olympics win. He was playing against opponents of the same age bracket and won, that simple.
Messi has a superior head to head record against Ronaldo, so it's not just a case of Messi beating up on small teams, Messi usually won in head to head games against Ronaldo too from 2009 to 2018. Don't try to dismiss the significance of La Liga. If you are someone who rates Allegri highly as a manager, then you should value the accomplishments of dominating league football.
Anyway, I have said it before, I do not care about statistics or trophies. Football is a team sport and trophies are won and lost as a team. When I judge players, I judge them as individuals. When I look at Messi's individual ability and what he can do, and compare it to Ronaldo, to it is very obvious who is better at playing this sport.
Ronaldo is a top 3 goalscorer of all time, and that is it.
Messi is one of the greatest goalscorers of all time, one of the greatest dribblers of all time, and one of the greatest playmakers of all time.
But I get it, those who like Ronaldo more will never accept the fact that Messi's individual ability is just better.
Iceland - Hungary - Croatia - Poland - Wales
Portugal was the favourite in all these games. The only teams Ronaldo scored against was Hungary and Wales. The only time they were the underdogs were against France in the final, and they won that game without Ronaldo.
The idea that Ronaldo carried a mediocre team to the final at Euro 2016 is pure fiction. Portugal had a very easy route and Ronaldo's performances were nothing special (and not better than Messi's performances at World Cup 2014). Messi also faced stronger opponents on route to the 2014 World Cup final, than Ronaldo did on route to the 2016 Euros final.
This is the kind of dishonesty I do not like, because this is just a blatant attempt to make Messi responsible for his international failures while Ronaldo is not.
Portugal were the winners of Euros 2016 and Nations League 2019. They had a great team in 2018, more than capable of beating Uruguay, but Ronaldo disappeared and they got knocked out by a team Portugal were considered favourites against. In 2014, Ronaldo with Portugal was knocked out of the group stage by freaking USA. I don't care if Portugal was not an absolute top team back then, they were better than USA at the time.
If we are going to criticize Messi for his lack of World Cup performances, please keep the same energy for Ronaldo.
Messi was under 23 himself in 2008, so there is no point in discrediting his Olympics win. He was playing against opponents of the same age bracket and won, that simple.
Messi has a superior head to head record against Ronaldo, so it's not just a case of Messi beating up on small teams, Messi usually won in head to head games against Ronaldo too from 2009 to 2018. Don't try to dismiss the significance of La Liga. If you are someone who rates Allegri highly as a manager, then you should value the accomplishments of dominating league football.
Anyway, I have said it before, I do not care about statistics or trophies. Football is a team sport and trophies are won and lost as a team. When I judge players, I judge them as individuals. When I look at Messi's individual ability and what he can do, and compare it to Ronaldo, to it is very obvious who is better at playing this sport.
Ronaldo is a top 3 goalscorer of all time, and that is it.
Messi is one of the greatest goalscorers of all time, one of the greatest dribblers of all time, and one of the greatest playmakers of all time.
But I get it, those who like Ronaldo more will never accept the fact that Messi's individual ability is just better.
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For whatever reason I've always personally disliked the gnome but I think he's just about the better player. I do think Ronaldo deserves a lot of credit for making this an actual debate. However as Cerval said, this debate has gotten super boring already. There's no wrong answer to it anyways and it's completely fine to prefer either of the two. They're both brilliant players.
I really couldnt give shit which one is better to be honest and yes messi is great at all these things but that bit in bold is a fucking insult to just put ronaldo down as that. You can have your little Argentina fetish without Putting Ronaldo down as goals and nothing else.
Prime Ronaldo was a monster overall as a player and as complete as a attacking player you could get, the only thing he didnt have was world class passing range but he did have other ways to goals like being a fantastic crosser, could dribble, could score from anywhere on the pitch, could use both feet just as good and was more lethal than anyone in the air.
He topped the most dribbles in the prem from 2003 till 2008 when he was there and that was one of the toughest prem eras that was aswell. He has the second most assists in Real madrid history one less than benzema who has been at the club longer and over 200 assists overall.
He's 2008 and 2011/2012 and early seasons are ever bit as good to watch as any other players best seasons in football.
Prime Ronaldo was like a much more effective and better goal scorer version of the current neymar in he's prime but less of the showboating.
Prime Ronaldo was a monster overall as a player and as complete as a attacking player you could get, the only thing he didnt have was world class passing range but he did have other ways to goals like being a fantastic crosser, could dribble, could score from anywhere on the pitch, could use both feet just as good and was more lethal than anyone in the air.
He topped the most dribbles in the prem from 2003 till 2008 when he was there and that was one of the toughest prem eras that was aswell. He has the second most assists in Real madrid history one less than benzema who has been at the club longer and over 200 assists overall.
He's 2008 and 2011/2012 and early seasons are ever bit as good to watch as any other players best seasons in football.
Prime Ronaldo was like a much more effective and better goal scorer version of the current neymar in he's prime but less of the showboating.
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Messi is the better all around talent but Ronaldo is more effective. Messi can be brilliant in a match, play far better than CR but make less if a difference than Ronaldo who can seem quiet and average then suddenly in a split second make the difference. which one is better? Depends on what type of team you plan to build around each and how you plan to play.
So youre not a stathead huh? What did your eyetest tell you? Oh no wait, you probably didnt watch those games. That is a tougher/equally tough route to Argentinas. And that is a worse team than Argentin. Which you always conveniantly ignore. Argentina ia supposed to be contenders, always. Portugal? Are they better than that Croatia? That Wales dismantled Belgium, and passed a group of Russia, England, Slovakia. Portugal barely qualified from a abysmal group, they were far from a top team then. You cant say they were favorites by name alone, actual facts show otherwise. The lack of understanding you have on how they won and how impressive that was is shoking
Get a grip. Argentina is one of the most talented offensive juggernauts in the world, year after year. If they fail to win competitions not because their defense lets them down, but because they cant score upfront, then who is at fault for that? Its not solely on Messi, but hes part of the reason.
Greece won the Euro in 2004, not a sane person said they failed when they didnt even qualify for 2006 WC because they were other better teams than them. Its called overachievement for a reason. Portugal didnt suddenly become the best team in Europe after the Euros. Losing to Uruguay is about their level.
Lol dude, its a junior competition. Whats next, counting WC U19 or Euros U17?
And where did i say La Liga is irrelevant? I said its a competition where he most talented team mostly wins, and its most of the time won by beating on small teams rather than in the derbies.
Abilty is all great, but it needs to translate onto the pitch. If Messi scores hattricks left and right in La Liga, and then is shut down vs us in both games (for example), then that means his ability didnt translate to a higher level. Im not saying Messi is bad, far from it, but this shows he cant bring it regularly on a higher level. Maybe he cant handle the extra physicality, maybe he needs extra space, maybe the way he plays isnt effective for the high quality matches. Whatever it is, Ronaldo has done it better and more frequently throughout his career
Get a grip. Argentina is one of the most talented offensive juggernauts in the world, year after year. If they fail to win competitions not because their defense lets them down, but because they cant score upfront, then who is at fault for that? Its not solely on Messi, but hes part of the reason.
Greece won the Euro in 2004, not a sane person said they failed when they didnt even qualify for 2006 WC because they were other better teams than them. Its called overachievement for a reason. Portugal didnt suddenly become the best team in Europe after the Euros. Losing to Uruguay is about their level.
Lol dude, its a junior competition. Whats next, counting WC U19 or Euros U17?
And where did i say La Liga is irrelevant? I said its a competition where he most talented team mostly wins, and its most of the time won by beating on small teams rather than in the derbies.
Abilty is all great, but it needs to translate onto the pitch. If Messi scores hattricks left and right in La Liga, and then is shut down vs us in both games (for example), then that means his ability didnt translate to a higher level. Im not saying Messi is bad, far from it, but this shows he cant bring it regularly on a higher level. Maybe he cant handle the extra physicality, maybe he needs extra space, maybe the way he plays isnt effective for the high quality matches. Whatever it is, Ronaldo has done it better and more frequently throughout his career